fork seals

hi all can any one tell me the correct amount of fluid that goes into each fork leg in mm or cc and also the best weight oil to add ie 10w or 5w.cheers all

hi bigbird cheers for that i dont think they do that grade in the uk they only seem to do sae 10w or sae 15w cheers

I haven't had to any work on my SW's forks but run ATF in my GW's forks. ATF is a wee bit less than SAE15. Anything from 5W to 20W will do, it's just a matter of how much dampening you like.

lesley wrote:

hi bigbird cheers for that i dont think they do that grade in the uk they only seem to do sae 10w or sae 15w cheers

You can get any grade fork oil you want. Go down to you local bike dealers and ask for it - if they haven't got it, they can get it next day delivery. If they say anything other than 'no problems' then tell them to shove it and get on the net to M&P or similar.

I've had fork oil from SAE 2.5 to 30 weight from shops locally, so don't be put off or accept bull sh#t from anyone about availability, its not exactly rocking horse poo!

Just remember you have two fork legs and need to order enough oil for both - you can't skimp either! Generally fork oil comes in 500 mil bottles, so to do a SWing you will need two of them!

DO NOT be tempted to use ATF - Automatic Transmission Fluid - its crap, it foams, its not designed to take the variable pressure/conditions that suspension exerts on it, tis fine in a car gear box, but not the front end of a motorcycle. Honda proved the point with the CX range of bikes. The original 78-82 models came with a service recommendation to use ATF as an alternative to SAE10-15 fork oil. On the late models this was dropped due to proven suspension damping problems reported by owners, investigated by dealers and agreed by Honda!

Skippy wrote:

its not exactly rocking horse poo!

(Sorry, that middle-school urge to snicker came over me when I read that )

I have to disagree, been using ATF in the forks of GWs for a good long time along with several other riders I know. No one I know has had any problems with the stuff. I rode my 1500 with Progressive springs for almost 90,000 miles with ATF in the forks with no seal problems. I changed the stuff every couple years and it didn't look much different than it went in other than being a bit darker as does fork oil. The 1995 Honda service manual for the 1500 still called for ATF as an alternative to fork oil. I don't know on what basis you're calling the stuff crap but my fork bushings never showed any serious wear either the uppers or lowers and the bike's handling was good with Progressives on front and rear. If the stuff is apt to foam you'd expect that it would do so more in a torque converter. Likewise I suspect the pressures exerted on the stuff in a motorcycle's forks wouldn't be as severe as that in a torque converter hauling a heavy trailer up a mountain. That you don't think it's good, that's okay, but a statement like, "it's crap" is pretty much over the top.

Exavid,

I don't doubt that you and your friends have had good results using ATF in a Goldwing.

I can only go by my own experience and knowledge of the stuff. As I posted, my experience is mainly with Honda's CX range of bikes, for whom ATF was later rejected as a damping medium.

I'm sorry if you find my sematics a tad disagreeable, but I'm not going to fall out with you over it either.

As far as I'm aware ATF isn't 'graded' (i.e. it doesn't say SAE 10 on the container etc.) in the same way as fork oil, so I tend to regard at it as a stop gap measure, if the relevant oil wasn't available - say ' topping up on a blowing a fork seal' while away from home on tour. As soon as I got back, I'd be stripping the fork, rectifying the fault and flushing all remenants of the stuff away before refilling with fork oil.

The flip side to your point about torque converters is they tend to contain a site more ATF than a fork leg - My wifes car, the first we've ever owned with an autobox takes quite a bit; I think we were charged for over 6 litres during a recent service. So the load exerted on the overall quantity would be less? Perhaps in the same way that brake abilility can be effected over time by hard use, decending a steep road - old brake fluid contains moisture that boils in the caliper due to the heat created by braking, leading to a loss of braking ability - I'm sure I'm not telling you anything you don't already know, but just want to draw a parallel between the two issues.

edbancro wrote:

Skippy wrote:

its not exactly rocking horse poo!

(Sorry, that middle-school urge to snicker came over me when I read that )

It's always good to brighten somebodys day!!!

cheers skippy done the seals and put 300ml of 10w oil and progressive springs made the world of difference.go chasing big bikes now

Excellent news Lesley - did you encounter any problems at all??

I've got to admit my biggest worry is the braking system, I don't like messing with brakes at the best of times, but eventually I supposed I'll have to do the pads etc.

Given the price of workshop manuals I'm gonna have to do a bit of saving, I never realised, when I put out a request to borrow one, just how expensive they are!

No problem Skippy, we all have our different opinions and written communication has it's limitations because we can't see each other and read body language or voice inflections to know exactly what the other means for sure. Add to that that there's more than one way to skin a cat and it gets more ambiguous at times. Anyway we each do it our own way and us survivors must be doing some thing right or we wouldn't be here, no?

The only problem I came across was some idiot rounded the bottom Allen screw so to do the seals I heated the top of the lower fork leg up which then I could prize out the seal worked for me the problem will be when I have to do the lower fork bushes a ho

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I've done a bunch of Goldwing forks that have the same Allen bolt at the bottom. Especially on the older GWs those bolts tend to be bears to remove. There are two common problems with them. Either they turn and the innards turn with them or they're frozen. The spinning ones usually will come undone when an air or electric impact wrench is applied. The frozen ones that won't yield to an impact wrench or the ones that someone's stripped out by using an SAE Allen instead of the proper metric one usually have to be drilled out. Not too difficult usually. Just drill them out with a bit that's a slight bit larger in diameter than the Allen bolt shank. Once the drill gets down close to the fork material the head should pop off. Once you have the fork lowers off you can grip the stub of the bolt with a big vise grip and turn it out.

AAAAAAArgh I dont believe it!!!
I was planning on taking the Swing out tomorrow (after a 3 week rest) and noticed a small pool of oil on the ground when I rolled it forward. The front wheel is covered in oil and its run down the side of the tyre. It must have been pressure build up from the heat.
Looks like I'll be taking out the MuZ.
Honda fork Under 2 years on road under 10000 klm.
MuZ fork over 10 years on the road, just under 60000klm and just weeping a bit.

There goes some more of my holiday maintenance time. The Muz is only 4 years overdue for a major, and the Honda is due now.

Thanks for the above banter as I will find much of this useful when I get back from Melbourne.

Thanks for the clue on the spinning bolts exavid, yes it did work,and I would never have got it out without the above advice. I prefer the Suzuki and Yamaha female hex in the damper tube. at least it can be held steady while gunning off the bolt.

The forks are back in the frame, now for the coolant change, oil change and some more lecky work.

Re the topic recently on fork boots.
To preserve the new seals better, I have mounted a set of boots to my forks.

Kurt,

Where did you get the gaiters? While it is a PITA to add them after the fact, I think that they would be a good addition.

Local bike shop. they were marked "CB750 Honda /Norton Comando".
They were the only ones avail, and I may replace them with imports from USA in the near future. The correct size is 41 ID and 63 OD and total length of 170mm. the ones I got are a bit long and tight. If they don't bind I'll leave them on.
They are barely visible with the Swing sitting on the ground. Those pics were taken while it was jacked up.