Vibration when cold

Is it customary for these scooters to have a vibration when starting off for the first ride of the day? I have noticed it vibrates noticeably when cold (1st ride of the day) but then ceases when its warmed up. I wonder if this phenomenon is due to a wearing belt; or is it normal? I have a 2008 model.

It's likely due to the engine running under "open loop" emission controls. Before the engine reaches normal operating temp, the exhaust must heat up enough to get the O2 sensor working. During that time, the engine runs with a richer, less accurate preprogrammed fuel/ignition map that isn't the smoothest running map. Once the temp gauge moves up into the third bar, your engine should be running in "closed loop", where the O2 sensor is providing feedback to the ECU and the engine is running leaner, crisper, and with less vibration. To try this theory, next time you start your Swing cold, let it sit and idle until the temp gauge shows 3 bars. Then ride away and see if it's any smoother.

bigbird wrote:

It's likely due to the engine running under "open loop" emission controls. Before the engine reaches normal operating temp, the exhaust must heat up enough to get the O2 sensor working. During that time, the engine runs with a richer, less accurate preprogrammed fuel/ignition map that isn't the smoothest running map. Once the temp gauge moves up into the third bar, your engine should be running in "closed loop", where the O2 sensor is providing feedback to the ECU and the engine is running leaner, crisper, and with less vibration. To try this theory, next time you start your Swing cold, let it sit and idle until the temp gauge shows 3 bars. Then ride away and see if it's any smoother.

OK did what you recommended. I let the thing idle for 10 minutes on several occasions. However every time, the temp gauge never did get to 3 bars, it just stayed at 2; when I finally got impatient and rode off anyway. The degree of vibration was less but still noticeable.

oltxredneck, I wonder if it might be the same thing that happened to my 08 SWing. It vibrated on take off. I was told to hold the brake and rev it to 4000 rpms for 15 seconds. I did that and it was a lot smoother. You could give that a try.

Just got back from my Honda dealer talking to the head mechanic. He said by allowing the SWing to idle for extended periods, i.e. 10 minutes will foul the plugs and contaminate the oil. He recommended that I just start her up, put on helmet, jacket, gloves; then take off slowly till she warms up. It seems that mine never does get to 3 bars anyway, just 2, so reckon I'll just follow the mechanic's advice.

As other's have mentioned on this forum in the past holding the left break lever tight while twisting the throttle to 4000rpm for 10 to 25 seconds seems to do the trick (at least it does for me). Something to do with deglazing the belt I believe. Just booked my 2009 in for 8000 mile (12,800km) service so will have then inspect belt and clean out belt dust from housing.

With 75k kl on my 09 swing ,I have never deglazed by holding the brake lever. At every oil change ,I do a belt inspection, remove the the clutch pad assembly and sand the pads and bell  housing with emery cloth. 98 % of my riding is HWY,so there is very little ware on the drive train. Most of the time the temperature don't go higher then 25 C. My biggest problem are bug splatter,on my face shield ,and wild life, moose , bears, beavers,and flocks of partridge on the road.

Well, here's the thing,

I have recently moved to a place where I have three exits from my street. One is a very steep hill to the east. The second is a very steep hill to the west. The third is a flat road for about 2 miles before a gentle climb to 800 feet, then a slope down to normal level.

When I take my SW up the hills, (east or west) from a cold start I get a lot of vibration from cold, but this tends to stay throughout my ride, however long it may be.

If I take the level route and go gentle on the throttle until the engine has warms up I get little or no vibration throughout the ride. There is no scientific reason for this but it happens. I would advise anybody to avoid heavy throttle until the engine has warmed up and then go gentle, even on fast acceleration until the bike feels 'comfortable'. Bear in mind that I'm riding two up most of the time.

So, there it is. A mystery with no explanation but it works. My SW is 17 years old with a badly scored clutch drum. (I have a replacement which I will fit in the spring), but for now this works for me. Yes, the SW vibrates but it can be kept to a minimum with care. What do you think? Comments welcome.

I love my Silverwing, going to Belgium via France (again) in a few weeks despite the weather. :flower: Icon on behalf of my passenger.

Probably belt issue.

On a somewhat different note. I vibrate when I'm cold too. Or is it called shivering?

Dale N. wrote:

On a somewhat different note. I vibrate when I'm cold too. Or is it called shivering?

Depends on if you are enjoying it or not?

Valid comments, I tend to lean on the side of 'belt issue' even though it's fairly new. As I said, my clutch drum is badly scored so it will be interesting to see if a second-hand clean drum and new shoes will help. I also get a noise from the tunnel when cold but this soon fades. I enjoy the ride anyhow so if anyone reading this is contemplating getting a SW, don't worry about the vibration. My friend, who rides a Harley Sportster, tells me that he can only see a blurred mess in his mirrors when riding. Incidentally, if you look at the cyclic action of the crank arrangement on the Harley it behaves almost like a single cylinder !

I guess us SW riders get a smooth ride by comparison. The 26g rollers have certainly helped with the belt slap. (see separate topic) Happy riding....

Loosebearing wrote:

Valid comments, I tend to lean on the side of 'belt issue' even though it's fairly new. As I said, my clutch drum is badly scored so it will be interesting to see if a second-hand clean drum and new shoes will help. I also get a noise from the tunnel when cold but this soon fades. I enjoy the ride anyhow so if anyone reading this is contemplating getting a SW, don't worry about the vibration. My friend, who rides a Harley Sportster, tells me that he can only see a blurred mess in his mirrors when riding. Incidentally, if you look at the cyclic action of the crank arrangement on the Harley it behaves almost like a single cylinder !

I guess us SW riders get a smooth ride by comparison. The 26g rollers have certainly helped with the belt slap. (see separate topic) Happy riding....

Your explanation of your problem is very clear and that allows for an Experienced diagnosis of your problems. Your engine mounting rubbers are old and dry, No longer absorbing the roughness of your engine mounts as they are designed to do. Replacing your engine mount rubbers will help your problem, Especially while it is operating in the open loop. The added strain on the bike climbing the grades you describe increase the felt shaking of the engine. Replacing the damaged Clutch bell will hopefully remove some of the roughness you describe. Since your belt rotates constantly while the engine is running, Any roughness caused by the belt would be felt even at idle. I do not believe anything is wrong with your belt. The polished clutch bell surface Rust in a short period of time and causes a noise similar to belt slip, A short Italian tune up will cure this problem and rid you of the jerky clutch apply. How long has it been since you replaced your spark plugs, Your older bike has no Oxygen sensor and runs richer in open loop especially in cold weather, Aggravating the problem.

Enjoy your bike.
Lloyd 193.

Even new Harley V-twins vibrate like jackhammers compared to the in-line 600 of the Swing. And notice the comparatively small handlebar weights on the Swing compared to so many other in-line bikes. Run your belt for 16,000+ and just enjoy the ride.

Vibration variances are more and less noticeable depending on terrain and speed. Throttle lock the Swing at 45 mph, and vary the terrain slightly. You will notice more and less vibration according to where the rollers are on the variator. Natural and expected on the Swing.

Back to simple----I had 2 new SilverWings---2009 and left over 2013. Both retired at near 50,000 miles. Rollers/sliders were replaced with stock as well as drive belts.....the 2009 thru out its life had driveline vibrations at certain speeds----only way to reduce, run engine up against brakes. Just lived with it----the bike never broke or left me walking. 2013 driveline smooth thru out its life---chalked it up to machine differentes----it never made me walk.

Belt slap---just happens I guess--- MyHelix(Fusion) in that market (Japan) used to have real belt slap after long freeway run---wide open---either run engine up against brakes or just ride---three of the four new HELIX I bought and rode(total 175,000 miles) had rear clutch bearing trouble---warranty paid for. Belt hitting inside case on inspection could be seen. Always used OEM belts, changed at Honda recommended intervals.

Think problem of poster: depends on how bike is loaded/worked in initial run up.

Now my experience with maxiscooters All I bought new (had 9 altogether, near 400,000 miles) Older Silverwings....and they all are getting OLD.-- I would hesitate tearing into them wasting time/ money
as long as they are going down the road My opinion----my way out of problem bike is to trade for new one.....and probably cheaper in the long run. Love warranty!

lloyd193 wrote:

Loosebearing wrote:

Valid comments, I tend to lean on the side of 'belt issue' even though it's fairly new. As I said, my clutch drum is badly scored so it will be interesting to see if a second-hand clean drum and new shoes will help. I also get a noise from the tunnel when cold but this soon fades. I enjoy the ride anyhow so if anyone reading this is contemplating getting a SW, don't worry about the vibration. My friend, who rides a Harley Sportster, tells me that he can only see a blurred mess in his mirrors when riding. Incidentally, if you look at the cyclic action of the crank arrangement on the Harley it behaves almost like a single cylinder !

I guess us SW riders get a smooth ride by comparison. The 26g rollers have certainly helped with the belt slap. (see separate topic) Happy riding....

Your explanation of your problem is very clear and that allows for an Experienced diagnosis of your problems. Your engine mounting rubbers are old and dry, No longer absorbing the roughness of your engine mounts as they are designed to do. Replacing your engine mount rubbers will help your problem, Especially while it is operating in the open loop. The added strain on the bike climbing the grades you describe increase the felt shaking of the engine. Replacing the damaged Clutch bell will hopefully remove some of the roughness you describe. Since your belt rotates constantly while the engine is running, Any roughness caused by the belt would be felt even at idle. I do not believe anything is wrong with your belt. The polished clutch bell surface Rust in a short period of time and causes a noise similar to belt slip, A short Italian tune up will cure this problem and rid you of the jerky clutch apply. How long has it been since you replaced your spark plugs, Your older bike has no Oxygen sensor and runs richer in open loop especially in cold weather, Aggravating the problem.

Enjoy your bike.
Lloyd 193.

These guys do not know what vibration is until they have owned a few Harley's.

Lloyd

Even more valid comments you guys.

You've all put my mind at rest in various ways. Yes, the SW vibrates. Engine mounts? good point, something to think about for the future. I can't really complain considering the age of my bike and it just keeps going. I replace my spark plugs and air filter much earlier than recommended. I find this stops the mild 'backfire' when closing the throttle.

A smooth clutch bell will help and I'm hoping that bearings are not an issue with such low mileage????

I'm not a fan of running the throttle whilst holding the brake but I must confess that it does help. The Oxygen sensor is also a valid consideration, my SW stinks when cold starting probably because of a rich mixture.

It's nice to know that we are all in tune with the quirks of the SW because I would like to keep mine even if I get a new bike next year, (SW? not sure) but I'll keep the one I have because it's just great fun and the girl on the back loves it.

Thanks for all your comments and I hope it serves anybody considering a SW as a great tourer. I tried the new XADV but the 'clunky' gear change habit was a bit 'uncomfortable' and the pillion seat was no where near the SW for comfort. Also, my feet barely touched the ground and I'm 6ft tall. Not very reassuring.

I'll keep watching this subject as I go through my improvements this year. Thanks again for your comments. This forum is priceless. As for Harleys?..I just don't get it

Loosebearing wrote:

The Oxygen sensor is also a valid consideration, my SW stinks when cold starting probably because of a rich mixture.

IIRC yours is a 2001 ? if so it doesn't have an oxygen sensor bud, also my 01 stinks at cold start, as you already surmised it's due to fuel enrichment during the warm up phase & nothing to worry about

You're right Mr. 'The Bern'.

Mine is a 2001. I kind of like the relative 'simplicity'. Looking forward to our trip to Leuven in Belgium in a couple of weeks time. If this weather doesn't improve we are going to get wet...hey ho !

tinman wrote:

With 75k kl on my 09 swing ,I have never deglazed by holding the brake lever. At every oil change ,I do a belt inspection, remove the the clutch pad assembly and sand the pads and bell  housing with emery cloth. 98 % of my riding is HWY,so there is very little ware on the drive train. Most of the time the temperature don't go higher then 25 C. My biggest problem are bug splatter,on my face shield ,and wild life, moose , bears, beavers,and flocks of partridge on the road.

Tinman, thanks for your information, How often do you find that the belt need's replacing?

Thanks

Lloyd 193.