Low rear tire Milage

Most complaints, Of low rear tire life are caused by poorly balanced rear tires hopping down the road, Even the cheap tires will last much longer if they are carefully balanced.

An unbalanced rear tire can actually leave the road surface, Loosing traction and return to the road surface several times a second.

This not only grinds the rubber off your tire, It damages your Shocks and rear suspension.

Adversely affects your Handling and destroys your rear tire braking, This can all occur and the rider does not feel it.

Balance those tires for that smooth and long tire life and ride quality, Buying quality tires in the beginning will pay off.

Happy motoring
Lloyd 193.

Good advice, Lloyd. Thanks. I put that Ride On stuff in the rear tire last fall. Hoping to put some in the front this spring. I think it might work ok.

lloyd193 wrote:

Most complaints, Of low rear tire life are caused by poorly balanced rear tires hopping down the road, Even the cheap tires will last much longer if they are carefully balanced.

An unbalanced rear tire can actually leave the road surface, Loosing traction and return to the road surface several times a second.

This not only grinds the rubber off your tire, It damages your Shocks and rear suspension.

Adversely affects your Handling and destroys your rear tire braking, This can all occur and the rider does not feel it.

Balance those tires for that smooth and long tire life and ride quality, Buying quality tires in the beginning will pay off.

I would really like to see a video of this, a tyre so out of balance that it can lift itself plus the weight of the scooter plus the weight of the rider the forces of inertia it would take to do that would be phenominal

Want decent mileage from SilverWing rear tire?----try Michelin Power Pure SC in proper size. Inflated to Honda Recommend pressure, balanced with "Ride On"-----always got 10,000 miles from them, one case 11,000 miles....no replacement tire available on long trip. These Michelin tires also worked on Burgman 400's I had.

Another advantage of the Power Pure SC---they wear round!

The Bern wrote:

I would really like to see a video of this, a tyre so out of balance that it can lift itself plus the weight of the scooter plus the weight of the rider  the forces of inertia it would take to do that would be phenominal

I think his description was a bit like a fisherman catching a fish. What happened is true but emphasized a bit to reinforce the effect. Just as your question is appearing to imply the opposite. Try rotating a BB in a sling and let it hit you. An oz or two on one side IS a lot of force.

1 oz out of balance on a 13" wheel equals 34 foot pound of force at 60 mph. That is going with the rear tire calculation of 21.3" diameter of the 13" tire rotating at 949 rpm at 60 mph. Those of you with better physics education, please correct my off the cuff calculations.

I'll have to agree with llyod... Static balance the tire first with weights.

My SW tires don't last. Pure Power at wear bars 6k. Front maybe 8K. Others have gotten less. Wear was nice and even on rear. Don't like the deceleration shake from front.

I balance my tires with a Marc Parnes tool. Very accurate can balance a tire to 2 grams-- no joke.

I live in the Tar-chip capital of PA. Roads are very abrasive with sharp stones glued to road.

Some people have never seen an out of balance tire on a Five thousand pound car bouncing down the road!

Lloyd193.

I haven't seen this phenomenon on a scooter, but I sure have seen it on a car. The wheel hop doesn't have to lift the vehicle at all, it just has to compress the shock/spring assembly.

My original IRC's have around 12.5k miles and looks like it will last to 15k before I need to change the rear. The front may last to 18k or more. I use a FOBO tire pressure monitor system and add air when the low pressure alarm goes off. I inspect my tires twice a month when washing my bike. My bike is approaching five years and I may start looking for replacement tires. I too use RideOn in both tires. I believe that the weather here in Hawaii is a lot friendlier to tires.

Mech 1 twa wrote:

I'll have to agree with llyod...  Static balance  the tire first with weights.

My SW  tires don't last. Pure Power at wear bars 6k. Front maybe 8K. Others have gotten less. Wear was nice and even on rear. Don't like the deceleration shake from front.

I  balance my tires with a Marc Parnes  tool.  Very accurate can balance a tire to 2 grams-- no joke.

I live in the Tar-chip capital of PA.  Roads are very abrasive with sharp stones glued to road.

I'm not debating the virtues of balancing tyres, mine are always balanced (front & rear)
Road surface abrasion will have a far greater impact on tyre wear than balancing, as will 'riding style' hard braking & (in my case) aggresive acceleration.

lloyd193 wrote:

Some people have never seen an out of balance tire on a Five thousand pound car bouncing down the road!

You're right I haven't, however I have seen cars bouncing down the road because of tyre carcass faults that cause a bulge on the tread surface (over here known as a carbuncle), Fortunately these are rare, mainly due to the huge fines applied to motorists who fail to maintain their tyres correctly, currently it is up to £2,000 per wheel.

Mornin' bud, then of course many riders will come home from the tyre fitters on perfectly balanced new rubber and squirt in their puncture prevention gloop of choice. Or maybe reach for that container of polystryrene balance beads that the bloke on the Shopping Channel conned them into buying.

It's interesting that all these adventure riders you read about having to fix multiple roadside punctures in darkest Africa, the Aussie outback, up in the Andes or wherever, just repair the puncture and ride off. Or the many thousands of SE Asian scooter riders who carry huge amounts of cargo and whole families on small bikes and scooters aren't hung up on tyres and wheel balancing, they have more pressing issues.

So I have to wonder why it's such a big deal to mainly leisure riding old duffers on an Internet forum.

Meldrew wrote:

Mornin' bud .../ snip/ ... I have to wonder why it's such a big deal to mainly leisure riding old duffers on an Internet forum.

Hi bud, I reckon if you're going 100mph in a baseball cap you probably need as much mechanical help as possible, because your guardian angel sure as heck can't fly that fast

Thinking on this a bit more, I do seriously wonder what effect inflating the tyres to 40psi front & rear (as recommended by Lloyd in a previous thread) has on traction when going over imperfections on the road surface ?

That ^^ is a serious question, tyre pressure affects sidewall flex, which in turn affects the overall suspension performance of the vehicle.

Berp

An out of balance Tire-Wheel assembly does not lift the vehicle several times a second, As you have implied in your comments. It compresses and extends the suspension members several times a second, Wearing everything out.

This causes Temporary loss of contact with the road surface, Temporary loss of contact with the road surface has several effects, It causes the tire to wear in the center, Becoming flat faced. It decreases the longevity of the tire sometimes as much as 50%. The suspension bounce caused by this out of balance assembly wears out the Shock Absorber in only a few hundred miles.

From then forward the Shock assemblies are permanently damaged and unable to effectively control the springs Rebound from there forward.

Once the Shocks are worn out in the critical area exposed to the wheel hop, They no longer function properly and make for an ill handling bike, Also for a bike that will wear tires at an increased rate for ever or until new Coil overs are installed.

Novices do not understand the Importance or the Dynamics of out of balance assemblies in any machine situation, However that does not prevent the inexperienced writing reams on subjects he has no practical Knowledge of
or experience with. I have spent as much time above 150 MPH as some guys have on a toilet.

Happy Motoring
Lloyd 193

The Bern wrote:

Meldrew wrote:

Mornin' bud .../ snip/ ...  I have to wonder why it's such a big deal to mainly leisure riding old duffers on an Internet forum.

Hi bud, I reckon if you're going 100mph in a baseball cap you probably need as much mechanical help as possible, because your guardian angel sure as heck can't fly that fast  

Hi Berp Strike: One

An indicated speed of a 100 MPH on a bike with a 10% built in Speedo error is actually about 91 MPH, On Americas Superior Interstate Highway system 91 MPH is not at all dangerous, Speeds of this magnitude would be suicidal on the U.K. trails you people operate on, See photo March April Road photo.

Speed limits on much of Americas Interstate systems are 85 MPH. or in some cases, Resume safe speed, No speed limit. All western American drivers are experienced at driving Safely at high speeds, Not restricted by poor road conditions and bad weather as you have in Europe.

I am happy to see that you U.K. Riders know your limitations.

Happy high speed touring
Lloyd 193.

So who exactly is riding round on worn out shocks and tyres by out of balance tyres you keep telling us novices about?

Over here hardly anyone fits their own tyres and balances the wheels, all vehicles over 3 years old have to pass an annual check for road worthiness, that includes the condition of the tyres, and suspension. I've never had a failure or an advisory notice to get faults rectified.

We have a minimum legal tread depth, and no sane minded rider would give his insurance provider the perfect excuse to invalidate his cover by fitting an obscure brand car tyre.


So who are you preaching to, because I can't be the only one who hasn't a clue about what you're on about.

Meldrew wrote:

So who exactly is riding round on worn out shocks and tyres by out of balance tyres you keep telling us novices about?

Over here hardly anyone fits their own tyres and balances the wheels, all vehicles over 3 years old have to pass an annual check for road worthiness, that includes the condition of the tyres, and suspension. I've never had a failure or an advisory notice to get faults rectified.

We have a minimum legal tread depth, and no sane minded rider would give his insurance provider the perfect excuse to invalidate his cover by fitting an obscure brand car tyre.


So who are you preaching to, because I can't be the only one who hasn't a clue about what you're on about.

If none of this information is helpful to you, Just disregard it.

Lloyd 193.

It isn't, and l will.

Road/highway surfaces....in my experience,Europe/Japan/Korea/UK much better than US.

#2 most if not all American riders/drivers are not very skilled at high speed stuff, period. Over 20 years in Germany---taught me about fast....and I never really had anything really fast---Kawasaki ConCours, BMWR80RT, BMW R51/3 in the 50's and BMW 6 cylinder 3 series coupe.


Long trips SilverWing really great at 55 mph----70-75mph stretching it for 8 hours----doesn't hurt engine, but handling/wind not so great.

lloyd193 wrote:

An indicated speed of a 100 MPH on a bike with a 10% built in Speedo error is actually about 91 MPH, On Americas Superior Interstate Highway system 91 MPH is not at all dangerous, Speeds of this magnitude would be suicidal on the U.K. trails you people operate on, See photo March April Road photo.

Speed limits on much of Americas Interstate systems are 85 MPH. or in some cases, Resume safe speed, No speed limit. All western American drivers are experienced at driving Safely at high speeds, Not restricted by poor road conditions and bad weather as you have in Europe.

I am happy to see that you U.K. Riders know your limitations.

Happy high speed touring
Lloyd 193.

I'm going happy high speed touring in Germany next month, and I know my limits that's why I'll be wearing a helmet, gloves, boots, and a textile suit with a back protector and pads. How about you?

Now about this nonsense you're spouting about America's superior high speed Interstates and American drivers are experienced at driving at high speeds. A quick internet Search lists multiple pile ups on Interstates involving anything up to 150 vehicles.

In fact Mrs M and myself narrowly avoided a serious multi vehicle collision on an elevated section of Interstate in Houston, Texa in the evening rush hour in January last year. It was quite scary, smashed up cars, smoke, drivers trying to get out cars shocked and stunned by the impact, and deployed air bags.

Yet hardly anyone slowed down, drivers going too fast, and too close together.

As for that March/April forum photo, that's Hardknott Pass in Cumbria, and with a 1 in 3  or 33% gradient it's on many a bikers bucket list. Apart from the gradient the road surface becomes frost damaged in winter, there's loose stone chippings, Herdwick sheep grazing at the roadside or wandering across the road in front of you.

In summer the tarmac on the road can melt and become another hazard, especially if you're forced to stop as the car driver up ahead of you has stalled or stopped because he underestimated the severity of the uphill gradient and turns.

Drivers descending the Pass bottle it on way down too, they keep well away from the road verges and get dangerously close to you.

There's the remains of a Roman fort near the summit too, it's the genuine item too, not something cobbled together for theme park visitors by Walt's Imagineers in a shed in Orlando.  

It's not like riding uphill over those road bridges down to Key West that you're used to in flat as a pancake, hurricane prone Florida.

As I used to live in that area and did my first ride up Hardknott over 40 year ago, I'd put good money on if you could go there now, you'd either stall or stop trying to get up that little road in Cumbria you're so dismissive of.

John I have never ridden on the roads you mention overseas so I will have to rely on your experience on that point but as far as all Americans having little or no skill at high speed stuff............W R O N G  !  There are some of the most skilled riders in the world residing in the US. You said "and I never really had anything really fast" so how would you even know about high speed skills since you would have been so far behind you would not have been close enough to judge "high speed skills"? That comment has no validity at all.

Hey Lloyd, in my posts I have been polite & called you by your username, I see you have given me a new title, so in future I shall call you **** as it seems to be an accurate discription of your attitude to any member that see's fit to have an opinion that differs from yours.


Admin : please don't delete this as it is my honest opinion of him, I have tried to be civil in my posts unlike **** who seems to think this shoul be a USA forum only & that UK members opinions count for diddly squat

Duly noted

carolina wing rider wrote:

John I have never ridden on the roads you mention overseas so I will have to rely on your experience on that point but as far as all Americans having little or no skill at high speed stuff............W R O N G  !  There are some of the most skilled riders in the world residing in the US. You said "and I never really had anything really fast" so how would you even know about high speed skills since you would have been so far behind you would not have been close enough to judge "high speed skills"? That comment has no validity at all.

At least John is honest bud, unlike the **** that keeps slagging off members with real world opinions

Only four asterisks when **** actually should contain seven

Meldrew wrote:

lloyd193 wrote:

An indicated speed of a 100 MPH on a bike with a 10% built in Speedo error is actually about 91 MPH, On Americas Superior Interstate Highway system 91 MPH is not at all dangerous, Speeds of this magnitude would be suicidal on the U.K. trails you people operate on, See photo March April Road photo.

Speed limits on much of Americas Interstate systems are 85 MPH. or in some cases, Resume safe speed, No speed limit. All western American drivers are experienced at driving Safely at high speeds, Not restricted by poor road conditions and bad weather as you have in Europe.

I am happy to see that you U.K. Riders know your limitations.

Happy high speed touring
Lloyd 193.

I'm going happy high speed touring in Germany next month, and I know my limits that's why I'll be wearing a helmet, gloves, boots, and a textile suit with a back protector and pads. How about you?

Now about this nonsense you're spouting about America's superior high speed Interstates and American drivers are experienced at driving at high speeds. A quick internet Search lists multiple pile ups on Interstates involving anything up to 150 vehicles.

In fact Mrs M and myself narrowly avoided a serious multi vehicle collision on an elevated section of Interstate in Houston, Texa in the evening rush hour in January last year. It was quite scary, smashed up cars, smoke, drivers trying to get out cars shocked and stunned by the impact, and deployed air bags.

Yet hardly anyone slowed down, drivers going too fast, and too close together.

As for that March/April forum photo, that's Hardknott Pass in Cumbria, and with a 1 in 3  or 33% gradient it's on many a bikers bucket list. Apart from the gradient the road surface becomes frost damaged in winter, there's loose stone chippings, Herdwick sheep grazing at the roadside or wandering across the road in front of you.

In summer the tarmac on the road can melt and become another hazard, especially if you're forced to stop as the car driver up ahead of you has stalled or stopped because he underestimated the severity of the uphill gradient and turns.

Drivers descending the Pass bottle it on way down too, they keep well away from the road verges and get dangerously close to you.

There's the remains of a Roman fort near the summit too, it's the genuine item too, not something cobbled together for theme park visitors by Walt's Imagineers in a shed in Orlando.  

It's not like riding uphill over those road bridges down to Key West that you're used to in flat as a pancake, hurricane prone Florida.

As I used to live in that area and did my first ride up Hardknott over 40 year ago, I'd put good money on if you could go there now, you'd either stall or stop trying to get up that little road in Cumbria you're so dismissive of.

Enjoy your trip
Lloyd 193.

My comment on speed---Nothing really fast----BMW 6 Cyclinder coupe may 150mph, Concours 120mph or more but not comfortable at that speed, BMW R80RT would could run 100mph all day. But by German standards not really fast stuff. In US these are high speeds and probably get you put in jail.

Fast stuff in Germany goes above 150mph and they use it everyday. Difference---
German have great lane discpline---US idiots stay in the left lane----watch Harley riders, they hog left lane just like they would in their pickups.

We have little or no safety/vehicle inspection standards----Americans so skilled?., why did the Army have to buy Automatic freight trucks? Getting a driver's license in US very easy, German/Japan/Korea much more training.

Bike Riders---I was DOD Safety Manager for nearly 40 years,, BSc safety degree----so bad in Japan, late 60's early 70's--Tokyo area, 6 GI's were getting killed on bikes every 8 weeks and then the cycle repeating itself, After 2000 in Germany, Gen BB Bell's pilot was killed on Zip bike, passing in no passing zone---Gen caused all GI's with bike lic. to be retrained, all had been trained by MSF in US or MSFcourses in Germany----I was Safety Manager in Giessen and we had nice paved/marked training area---had 2 German employees/instructors who were German trained/did track days/MSF certified. My MSF instructor ticket dated '73 or 74. I have never had much faith in MSF parking lot training.

Anyway---those GI's we had to "re-train" were really low skilled, even though with lic.---many could not even ride the basic course without coaching/extra training!! Cruiser riders being the worst!! But most wore their Halloween costumes while riding. Hopefully we improved their skills/awareness.

I am talking about street riders not racers.

Granted The Bern he is honest in his opinions and most of his opinions are informative and appreciated but to throw a blanket over a whole country (US) with a comment like "all american riders/drivers are not very skilled at high speed stuff, period" is the most ridiculous and ignorant statement that has ever been posted on this site "in my opinion". Now the subject is Harley riders in the left lane, GI truck drivers in a foreign country, automatic transmissions in freight trucks, and military training. None of this has a thing to do with his original comment. In "my opinion" he is W R O N G ! I'm over it now...lets move on. Thank you all for your opinions.

carolina wing rider wrote:

Granted The Bern he is honest in his opinions and most of his opinions are informative and appreciated but to throw a blanket over a whole country (US) with a comment like "all american riders/drivers are not very skilled at high speed stuff, period" is the most ridiculous and ignorant statement that has ever been posted on this site "in my opinion". Now the subject is Harley riders in the left lane, GI truck drivers in a foreign country, automatic transmissions in freight trucks, and military training. None of this has a thing to do with his original comment. In "my opinion" he is W R O N G !  I'm over it now...lets move on. Thank you all for your opinions.

Errrr, please refresh me, where did I post ...

carolina wing rider wrote:

"all american riders/drivers are not very skilled at high speed stuff, period"

.... think on bud, I honestly do have a low opinion of some of the posts made by a particular American member, but I'm certain I have never made a post that insults the complete American nation.  I think if you study posts carefully you will find it was an American poster that made the statement you are currently blameing me for

The Bern you have misunderstood the post. I was referring to your statement that "at least he is honest" and that part only. The rest is my opinion about a comment the "he" made. Sorry about the confusion.

Ahh carolina wing rider, I've read your post ^^ & read further back, I was agreeing with John, he has ridden on far more roads in far more countries than myself & possibly/probably yourself or **** has & I respect his opinion.  I seriously doubt that **** has ridden/driven in the UK, I have driven in several American states over the years & found the behaviour of other road users to be good in general & very kind to idiot holidaymakers like myself

I'm glad we got it straightened out. I was is no way blaming you for anything and maybe the post was confusing. Sometimes I get brain farts and this may have been one of those. I have gotten good advice from John in the past but this particular situation annoyed me. I'm over it now and lets move on.

carolina wing rider wrote:

I'm glad we got it straightened out. .../ snipped /.... I'm over it now and lets move on.

Onwards & upwards bud It would never be my intention to insult a nation & I thank you for goiving me the oppertunity to clarify this. on one of my visits I went on a golfing holiday in South Carolina, the alligators 'sunbathing' on the side of the tee's was somewhat daunting to say the least it has to be said that lemonade there is sooooo much more refreshing than here in the UK

Can't we all just ride our scooters here.
Good roads- bad roads are out there.

Bad drivers distracted drivers all around the world.

Tires? Is this what we are talking about. IT was.

I'm nobody. RIDE ON.

I ride in the Smokies and spend a lot of time in the twisties.  I got 4000 miles out of Michelin Power Pure SC.  Pressure was checked every time I went out.  Not impressed.  The IRC was good for 7000 miles.

Seems to me that ~8000 miles is "traditional" for rear tires. That said I'm not familiar enough with Power Pure tires to make a judgement, but 4000 miles seems to be premature. Some tire compounds are "stickier" than others (e.g. Pirelli Diablos) and will wear sooner.

I switched out my rear tire today at 18000 miles. 7000 on a cheap ( relatively) Shinko. It could have gone another 1000 easily but I err on the side of caution. The front looks hardly worn. Mind you, I am a really smooth rider, no bunny hopping or cannonball take-offs and I ease off the gas way before I brake in traffic and keep safe distance to avoid panic braking or hard stops.

Jay.

I just started on my third Michelin City Grip rear, first two got 7,000 and 8,000 miles, prior to those were two Shinkos, first one got 7,000 and the second one was swapped out for the City Grips at 4,000 due to poor wet traction. Up to then I was using Power Pure with similar life of 7,000 miles.
I always used matched tires. Maybe next time I will try Diablos ...

I have a Michelin City Grip on the rear now. We will see how it works.

4k seems low for PP tires but I only got 5k from first one second not looking much better.
Not happy with the head shake from the front if hands are off bars for a second. Only at lower speeds but sometimes you got to adjust a zipper or whatever.

That "head shake" is your S'wing's way of telling you it doesn't like that tire

I had the same head shaking with 3 different PP fronts, although I use matched tires, maybe City Grip on front, which has no shaking on the two I've used, along with a rear PP?

Does Michelin even make proper sized rear City Grip for SilverWing?

Front CG's aspect ratio is 70 compared to 80 for the PP.

This difference has not negatively impacted handling or safety, in fact, it gives better turn-in.
I would NOT, however, substitute a 90, like was used on many earlier cycles.
I suspect that 14" tire choices were more limited in the late 90's when Honda was developing the SW, and they specified a tire that had wider availability.

Sidewinder Pilot wrote:

Front CG's aspect ratio is 70 compared to 80 for the PP.

This difference has not negatively impacted handling or safety,  // snipped//

Can I just add a note of caution please, while changing the aspect ratio of the tyre has make no difference to safety on Sidewinder's machine he is riding a 'D' for those riding an 'A' the change in aspect ratio could possibly 'confuse' the ABS sensors.  
I say could because I've not tried it

At 13k and on 3rd rear tire and second front. OEM IRC were OK but front was very noisy on turns rear uneven wear. Front PP at 6.5k should last another 2k rear about half worn.

I'm going to try a matched set of Pirelli Diablos and see how they work out when present tires are gone.

Over-under size tires might trip ABS light.

If only this SW came with 15-14 inch wheels. Radials would be nice.

Musing, are radials available for the Swings? My dearly departed Goldwing had Dunlop Elite 3 radial tires on it. The rear had 18000 on it when I traded it in, and it still had at least a couple of thousand more to go. Since 1969 I have never had a 2 wheeler come even close to that figure for a rear tire. I usually get 11K on my Silver Wing IRC's and consider myself lucky!!!

GHM-PM wrote:

Musing, are radials available for the Swings? //snipped//

Not this side of the pond bud

I'm still eating a rear tyre every 3 to 4k miles. At this point there is usually tread left but it will be down to the wear marks at one point and squared off enough to spoil the corners. If bimbling along at 50mph and not enthusiastically cornering was my thing I might get another 1 or 2k. But it isn't.
A rear tyre costs between £50 and £60 fitted to a loose wheel. Not a lot of money for another dose of fun.
You pays your money and takes your choice.

If front was a 15" rear 14" Metzler makes  radial tires in close sizes. FeelFree. But no such luck for SW.
Can't mix and match both need to be the same type construction.

No radials in SW sizes.

And SilverWing was not designed for radials.