Dark Side Not For Me

I found out really quick that the dark side is not for me. I purchased a 2002 Swing 6/13/2020. It had a car tire on the back when I purchased it. I paid $1000 US for it with 41,000 miles. I felt I got a great deal on it. Before a test drive and after getting some education from the seasoned darksider who sold me the bike, I was on my way with my test drive. I have read for many months on the successes and failures of people who rode the dark side but never experienced it for myself. So I gave it a shot with that test drive. I ran the bike for a few miles and found that the bike had a heavy feeling and I really had to lean hard into the turns. It felt like I had to force the bike to do what I wanted it to do. It kept wanting to upright itself and return to the flat or neutral position if that's what you want to call it. It felt very unnatural to me. However on straight long roads that were flat (no or very little crown) it felt great and I had a lot of control.

After making the deal and getting the title changed over I took it home. The drive home was about 60 miles. I could have driven the interstate but opted to take the 55 mph state routes instead to get a real feel for the bike. I found I was fighting every twist and turn in the road and on high crowned straight sections I found the bike wanting to go to the right edge. I felt I had to keep leaning left to keep the bike in the same section of the road. By the time I got home I felt tired in what I feel was over controlling the bike. I have ridden Swings before and know what to expect. This feeling of control was completely different. I felt out of control especially on the turns with the Swing fighting me trying to upright itself.

The dark side may be great for some riders but it's not right for me. I ordered a new tire that will be installed the beginning of next week. Until then I will ride the car tire not liking it one bit. The previous owner said I would get use to it and really start liking it. From my experience with the ride home, I don't think so.

Hello Ken J,

Congratulations, and good luck with your new purchase.

I think you got a great bargain there with the low mileage.

The 'darkside' is so named for a good reason.

The flat face of the car tire isn't designed for leaning, and it naturally wants to force you up straight.

I personally wouldn't want to ''get used to it'', because sooner, or later it might catch you out in a corner, in the 'perfect storm' scenario, and the consequences could cost you your life.

OK so a car tire is a cheaper option, and some don't like 'splashing the cash', but you're experience on the drive home proved something valuable to you, and you're doing the right thing in getting that tire off the back as quickly as possible.

I'm sure I won't be the only one to chip-in with this opinion.

Is there no annual road-worthiness test stateside? If there is, how do scoots or bikes with darkside tires get a clean bill of health?

Very best wishes to you with your S'wing and enjoy many miles of safe riding.

Is there no annual road-worthiness test stateside? If there is, how do scoots or bikes with darkside tires get a clean bill of health? Donie, in a word no. In o-HI-o at one time we had a voluntary inspection for all vehicles but that has gone by the wayside a long time ago.

I drove a friend's Goldwing 1800 that had a darkside tire on the rear. I was considering that as an option. Yes it handles differently in the twisties but was fine on the straight roads. The major plus to a car tire is they can last 40K miles or more. That said my friend bought his GW with the car tire on it and he put miles on it and decided to go back to a MC tire.

For myself I opted to stay with a traditional MC tire...

I've looked at the options and as an engineer myself I looked at the logical safety factors. I can see the benefits of high tire mileage and great control on flat straight surfaces such as interstate driving but you gotta turn sometime or you may be put into emergency situations when some nut on a cell phone cuts you off. At least I can say I tried it. It's just not for me. But if you like it, have at it and enjoy. Just be safe out there.

There has been a couple of long-running conversations about darkside tires here on the forum. I’ve merged this thread with the Darkside Car Tire Experience sub forum.

Tim

Thanks Tim. Can I assume you added my name to that sub forum?

Dark Side works for a Trike not a Bike. Only nice MC Michelin's for me. Never let me down.

New Micheline City Grip 2 is here in rear size only.  But at $111.00 a bit expensive  

Tires selection for SW are dropping.??

On my SWing trike the tires are about 6 3/4" wide and flat. Not out of air. The tread is flat. That wouldn't be good for two wheels in my opinion.

Mine handled great when I had Pirelli Diablos when it was a two wheeler.

In SilverWing size I just bought Front and Rear Heidenau----so far only front mounted----very satisfied, price ok with me...looking back to DDR days, they always worked fine on my MZ's----long wearing so maybe a little slippery on block pavement (wet).


Yes I think selection of tires for SilverWing in13 and 14 inch sizes, is less. Michelin City Grip never had tire for SilverWing front, currently using City Grip on rear of my Kymco XTown 300i==ok tire, works, long lasting----some new scooters have 14 inch rear and 15 front.

One needs to remember SilverWing was designed well over 20 years ago.

Some new rear tires are around. City Grip 2... I'm using a Pirelli Angel rear that tire is only been out a year or so in SW size sorry no front in 120/80/14. They do make a 120/70/14 but load and speed ratings are lower .

Pirelli dropped the original Diablo. Diablo Rosso now sticky tires but don't last long. Burned up a rear in 4.5K

Give me a set of Radial tires in the right speed and load ratings for SW they will improve a lot of things.
It's a scooter if pushed hard enough you will feel the frame flexing loaded in a high speed corner.

Final results converting back from the dark side.
My new tire came in last Monday 6/22/20 and the shop was able to install it on 6/25/20. I brought the tire home and installed it on the Swing. Torqued everything to spec and was on my way. It was like instantly everything fell into place on that first trip out. It was easier to lean into the turns and the feel was amazing. It felt like a totally different bike taking that car tire off. I feel a lot more comfortable riding on the proper tire. I feel safer and much more in control. Thanks for everyone's help and advice.

Ken J

Radial tires for SilverWing---if there are even any available for this bike, remember it was not designed for radial tires. Honda does know something!

Mech 1 twa wrote:

Pirelli dropped the original Diablo.   Diablo Rosso now sticky tires but don't last long.  Burned up a rear in 4.5K

Give me a set of Radial tires in the right speed and load ratings  for SW they will improve a lot of things.
It's a scooter if pushed hard enough you will feel the frame flexing loaded in a high speed corner.

Are you sure Pirelli have dropped the original Diablo? My late 2018 Forza has a set of tyres with Pirelli Diablo Scooter stamped in big letters on the sidewalls, and very good tyres they are too.

I now realise I've lead a very sheltered life, as I can honestly say that since I started riding maxi scooters in the Nineties I've never felt the 'frame flexing loaded in a high speed corner'.

It's rather like a rider telling you 'I had to lay the bike down'   when what they're really saying is they came off and crashed it.

Ridden like scooter, SilverWing is just fine----it is not a sub for something else.

Are you sure Pirelli have dropped the original Diablo? My late 2018 Forza has a set of tyres with Pirelli Diablo Scooter stamped in big letters on the sidewalls, and very good tyres they are too.

I can't find it on Pirelli Website? They still use the Diablo name on several tires. OE they might be around for awhile.?

I now realise I've lead a very sheltered life, as I can honestly say that since I started riding maxi scooters in the Nineties I've never felt the 'frame flexing loaded in a high speed corner'.

Try it at about 80 mph leaned over hard on a smooth road. Mostly from the rear twin shocks and high mounting points it flexes.

Ridden like scooter, SilverWing is just fine----it is not a sub for something else.

_________________
John Grinsel

Mech 1 twa wrote:

Try it at about 80 mph leaned over hard on a smooth road. Mostly from the rear twin shocks and high mounting points it flexes.

That's wasted on me mate, but if I was the type that felt the need to congregate at a greasy spoon bikers cafe on Sunday mornings with some others from a maxi forum, I'd exaggerate that up a bit and use it.  

Same old Curm . Ride On.   I ride alone feel no need to exaggerate.

Go for a long ride.

I have a dark side on my wing and it is interesting. Small changes in tire pressure make a huge difference in ride and handling. I find that exactly 32 lbs is just right. 30 is too soft and feels unstable. 34 and up the tire has a roundish profile at higher pressure and the bikes tips into turns more like a normal tire, or maybe a bit tippier. It works but the ride is a bit harsh and I also don't have the confidence in the traction/grip. At 32 psi it seems just right for my weight and feels like it has a Lot more grip. Looking at the tire contact patch with the bike leaned it looks much bigger than the normal tire patch did.
My one major issue - when I mounted the tire it was a real struggle and I used C clamps. I think I damaged the belt and the tire had a slight wobble. It was not seated very well but running it flat for a few hundred feet helped settle it a bit and seated the bead better. Also, I used 2 oz of airsoft pellets instead of balancing it. I really should have balanced it first. The bike runs fine up to 65 mph but has too much vibration above that speed. Used to run 90. With the right pressure the dark side tire feels very stable, has really good grip in turns but does have a slight push to bring the bike upright - but barely noticeable to me.

Mech 1 twa wrote:

Same old Curm . Ride On.   I ride alone feel no need to exaggerate.

Go for a long ride.

Yes mate same old, I'm still not convinced you or anyone else rides a Silver Wing at 80 mph leaned over hard on a straight road for any reason. As I've never tried it and I'm not going to either, I'm thinking with the weight transfer there'd be a tendency for the scooter to naturally move into the direction you're leaning. 

As for going on a long ride, I've been out a few rides since Lockdown started (Day 100 today). In the early weeks Police were stopping cars and bikes heading into rural areas, plus my favourite North Yorkshire market towns would have dead and deserted rather like our towns were on Sundays way back in the Fifties. 

Some movement restrictions have now been lifted, and biker wise they're still out and about in groups on Sundays. I read in the local rag that two bikers  tried to ride across a ford in a popular North Yorkshire bikers destination, the water was a lot deeper than they expected, they got stuck, and the local Fire and Rescue had to pull them out. I bet they were riding adventure bikes.


In other news we've just had a city put into full lockdown again, and on your side of the Pond things don't seem to be improving much either.

Just did 150 miles last week in Indiana. We hit lots of twisty windy roads. The only lockdown was having to eat outside (Taco Bell). Felt locked down having to follow an old man in a Miata doing 10 mph under the limit at one point, but a great ride otherwise. It was the first long ride after refurbishing and my mileage finally was as it's supposed to be ; 49.5 mpg. We rode mildly aggressively and it seems the SW requires a bit of effort in quicker turns. A dark side tire would only magnify that in my opinion, not worth the savings. I have Diablos on mine. The previous owner installed them 1 and a half years ago.