Modular FLIP OVER Helmets

Recently, I've spent hours researching modular helmets. It's time to replace my older GMAX 27S 3/4 jet fighter helmet which has served me well but is starting to show it's age i.e. looser fit (no replacement pads available, I broke some plastic screws when dismantling it to clean all the bits, some cracking of the soft plastic neck collar etc.

I've always been intrigued by the flip UP modular helmets ... more specifically the 180* FLIP OVER helmets. I've eliminate all of the flip UP only helmets due to fit, price, functionality/features or country availability.

This included the Schuberth C4 Pro, Shoei Neotec II, AGV Sportmodular and X-Lite X1005 simply based on price, the Nolan N100-5 and Bell SRT based on them only being a flip UP vs. a FLIP OVER, the HJC RPHA 90S based on fit and the Scorpion EXO Tech and ROOF R09 based on them not being available in Canada (or North America I believe) even though they are FLIP OVER units.

I will not buy a helmet on-line that I can't try on first. To expensive to return and too much hassle in my opinion. That leaves me with the LS2 Valiant II or the recently launched/ES updated SHARK EVO GT as my only choices and the new Shark is still very rare here in Canada and no where to try one on for fit.

I like the improvements I've read and seen in the reviews that have been made to the LS2 Valiant II helmet over it's predecessor the original Valiant. I tried one on and it seems to fit me well from all the size, head shape etc. criteria albeit it feels a bit weird never having worn a modular or full face before. I guess I'll get used to the chipmunk cheeks pressure and tighter feel. That could be because it was brand new too as my is beyond being well broken in.

My question is: does anybody have any heads on experience with either of these two helmets (the newer LS2 Valiant II or the SHARK EVO GT) and what are your thoughts? Thanks in advance.

I bought a new GMAX modular helmet in November. My old one was long in the tooth also.  I bought it online as I know GMAX fits me fine. The modular works fine but is a bit heavy.  I found the best deal from Dennis Kirk.

https://www.denniskirk.com

Good luck!

I need a road helmet and would consider a flip up. Years ago I tried on an HJC and thought the flip idea sound. No problem finding the helmet here in S Arizona but you need the $$$. I have a HD 5/8 black bowl with retractable visor. The wind in the ears is tiring.

sonuvabug wrote:

My question is: does anybody have any heads on experience with either of these two helmets (the newer LS2 Valiant II or the SHARK EVO GT) and what are your thoughts?  Thanks in advance.

You're asking about two brands of helmet that are manufacture their helmets for two different head shapes, did you not extensively research that. So unless you know what your own head shape is, just buying a helmet because it features a chin guard that flips back could be a expensive and uncomfortable mistake.

I have a high viz yellow Cahberg flip up helmet.

I ride with it up all the time and locks upright also has the flip down fighter pilot sun visor, love it.

Meldrew wrote:

You're asking about two brands of helmet that are manufacture their helmets for two different head shapes, did you not extensively research that. So unless you know what your own head shape is, just buying a helmet because it features a chin guard that flips back could be a expensive and uncomfortable mistake.

Earlier in that post he clearly mentions that he wont buy a helmet he hasn't been able to try on. Seems to me that the OP knows what he’s doing.

I'm following this as I do like the idea of flip over helmets, although I don't know how often I'd use it in the open face position.
For the past decade or so I've stuck with Shoei Neotecs, an expensive luxury I know but so is my head .

I would just look for another GMAX----they are made in Taiwan---I have had several, fit is same from model to model----quality and price right. Not too heavy.

I have tried Nolan, HJC, Bell and Shoei and Bilt (forget about it). None fit me well, that leaves Arai and GMAX. This is my fourth GMAX unit and am very pleased at the price point.

https://www.denniskirk.com/gmax/md01-modular-helmets.pfp3311252.prdf

Cosmic_Jumper wrote:

Meldrew wrote:

You're asking about two brands of helmet that are manufacture their helmets for two different head shapes, did you not extensively research that. So unless you know what your own head shape is, just buying a helmet because it features a chin guard that flips back could be a expensive and uncomfortable mistake.

Earlier in that post he clearly mentions that he wont buy a helmet he hasn't been able to try on. Seems to me that the OP knows what he’s doing.

Do you think so, he's made exactly the same post on maxi scoots. Look at a online reviews for any random helmet and they’ll all vary. Also it isn't that much of a hassle to return a mail order helmet, I returned a Kabuto formerly OGK open face helmet a few years ago and I was sent a pre-paid mailing label.


On your side of the Pond, Revzilla have offered free returns for years. Let's not forget it's common practice these days to try on helmets and clothing in motorcycle dealerships, put it back on the rack and then go purchase it cheaper online.

There's not much in the way of riding gear I need, but I've managed to make all my recent purchases in the last year and been pleased with my choices without asking around on two different forums.

So why criticize the guy for wanting to make an informed decision?

Because all the info is already out there. YouTube has Revzilla style reviews of just about every helmet you can think of. There's one review site that measures the noise level inside helmets.

I also mentioned earlier about head shapes, a few years before I bought a Scorpion EXO -900 here in York. I tried in on in the store, it fitted well, had loads of features etc. But as I found out to my cost wearing it out on the road for more than a couple of hours it was torture. Yet I'd read reviews it was 'a brilliant helmet', 'ticks all the boxes', fantastic value for money' etc.


It wasn’t for me, simply because Scorpion makes helmets for narrow shaped heads. That data wasn't available to me at the time

Do you know what your head shape is, or do you know that of LS2 or Shark helmets?

I just ordered this one this Bilt Power Modular Helmet to my nearest Cycle Gear store, had good luck/service from CG and they are close by for warranty, replacement shields, etc. Tip if you decide to keep the helmet, buy a replacement shield at time of purchase JIC, as they update/change styles frequently. https://www.cyclegear.com/gear/bilt-power-modular-helmet

As usual, you read and understood what I wrote Tim. I do my homework and as part of that, I want to hear from riders who have owned and used these lids if possible. While researching my options, I uncovered a major discrepancy in what various country distributors and retailers say about the LS2 Valiant II helmet shape which currently sits at the top of my short list.

For instance, I've now confirmed the LS2 Valiant II is designed and manufactured to fit an intermediate oval head shape. The USA based importer for North America (which supplies the Canadian market) has this shape listed on their US website. However, the Canadian Distributer who gets the helmets directly from the US importer states this helmet fits a long oval on their website. Looking further, various major Canadian retailers state either intermediate or long oval shape depending on which site you visit. Could both be true?

I decided to visit some of the EU country sites for LS2 helmets and found the same discrepancy. Some of them simply cut and pasted the exact incorrect website, rebranded it and voila ... erroneous information posing as fact. I tracked down and pointed this out to LS2's North American Brand Manager and he said he'd look into things. The next day, he contacted me to say thanks and within a day, I saw the Canadian importer's website changed to read intermediate oval shape for the Valiant II yet many of the Canadian retailers still read the incorrect long oval shape. For the record, I actually tried this specific helmet on a couple of weeks ago and it fits me very well.

Like you said Tim, I prefer making informed decisions, based on accurate information, where possible. I did post up this same request for "heads on experience" with these two models on a couple of other websites I visit. I want to hear and understand other owner's real, personal experience with these lids before I make my final choice. Where I live, we are under a COVID19 lockdown and stay at home order that's been extended until May 20th. Consequently non-essential retailers, such as motorcycle apparel operations, are closed and trying on helmets is not possible right now.

I've also spent many hours listening to video reviews and comparisons from sites such as the UK's motolegends, USA's Revzilla, (who, BTW, will not ship to Canada due to territorial licensing rights), Canadian Ryan "Fort Nine", webbikeworld.com, championhelmets.com and many others I can't remember by name. Most had hands on experience with modular lids and I learned something from just about every review. As correctly stated above, I do not want to make an expensive and uncomfortable mistake for my 59cm, intermediate oval shaped dome.

Having said all this, there are those presumptive, sad blokes who just need to sound off their own rightness. Perhaps it's boredom or perhaps it's something deeper. IMO, it doesn't really matter and if they prefer ignorance, then it's their sty to wallow in.

zrx212 wrote:

... snipped ... I just ordered this one this Bilt Power Modular Helmet to my nearest Cycle Gear store, had good luck/service from CG and they are close by for warranty, replacement shields, etc.

Thanks for posting this up zrx212.  However, I've really zeroed in on the flip OVER vs. just the flip UP helmets as demonstrated in the link below.  Disregard the UK's incorrect reference of it being a long oval .. it is an intermediate oval. The Bilt helmet you ordered is classed as a round oval ... which possibly might be OK for me but again, a "heads on" fitting is the only way to know ... at least initially.

Good tip on the extra shield.  I'd also add pads and liner to that pre-purchase list.  If I could get replacement parts for my current lid, I likely wouldn't be shopping for a new one.  At least not right now.

https://ls2helmets.com/uk/urban/valiant-ii

You're talking more nonsense mate, I thought you were an experienced rider so quite surprised to read that you've never worn and a full face or modular helmet before. So really all this ‘knowledge' you have isn't gained from real experience from riding in full face or modular helmets. it's just theoretical stuff you've read on umpteen websites,

I've worn full face helmets since the early crude fibreglass buckets of the Seventies that were noisy, had no vents, terrible easily scratched visors held on by press studs or friction washers only. I bought a BMW System 1 flip front helmet in West Berlin in the mid Eighties when it was the world’s first, and can rattle off wearing brands like Kangol, Nolan, Griffin, Nava, Shoei, Baehr, Kiwi, Shark, Arai, Scorpion and Schuberth over the years.  Some of those helmets were real clunkers too

The days are long gone when you needed to replace scratched shields/visors on a regular basis, with a bit of basic care you'll be junking the helmet before the visor.

Cheek pads, unless you're trying to custom fit a high end helmet like an Arai or Shoei, you're wasting your time. You'd be better off buying a Pinlock anti-mist insert.

I couldn't live without my AGV flip-up helmet. Great when the it's hot and you can flip-up the visor and then flip down the sun visor for eye protection.

If the sun isn't shining then chances are that I won't need to flip-up.....UK weather...generally.

It's also useful for communicating with people without taking your helmet off.

As for the ones which flip right over the back of the helmet?.....Dunno!

I understand that there is a legal requirement here in the UK that flip-up or flip-over helmets have to be 'position lockable'.

If you ride with any glasses, make sure the helmet is glasses friendly.

All this is well and good but let's cut through the BS. A helmet is for safety, nobody wears them for fun or looks  (kind of like masks LOL). The two main safety standards are DOT and Snell. Most helmets meet DOT but only full face ones can meet Snell.

Modular would be next, followed by 3/4 units and finally the head lid or half helmets (look at most H-D riders).

Personally I love the 3/4 helmets, use my old one on my side by side. But for the scooter on the street  I go with modular for safety and convenience even though they tend to be on the heavy side.  Brand of helmets mainly goes to what fits YOU. If it is uncomfortable you will not want to wear the da*n thing.

Just my thoughts, fire away! 

Loosemarbles wrote:

... snipped ... I understand that there is a legal requirement here in the UK that flip-up or flip-over helmets have to be 'position lockable'.

You are right and the legal requirement is called dual P/J homologat.  P stands for the modular chin bar in the "down or locked" position, J stands for the chin bar in the upper position (I think of "j"et helmet to remember which is which).  Both of the flip Over helmets I like are rated P/J.  

Easyrider wrote:

If you ride with any glasses, make sure the helmet is glasses friendly.

For me, this is a must have criterion.  Many brands claim they are "eyeglass friendly" but you really have to look for the eyeglass arm channels and of course, put the lid on to experience it for yourself.

GHM-PM wrote:

... snipped ... A helmet is for safety, nobody wears them for fun or looks. The two main safety standards are DOT and Snell. Most helmets meet DOT but only full face ones can meet Snell.

All my riding gear buying criteria (whether it goes on my body or bike) is prioritized this way -- 1) safety 2) functionality and 3) looks/cosmetics.  I can't remember buying anything for the latter.  

You are right stating modular helmets are not tested for a SNELL rating which is reserved for track lids as are the FIM ratings.  There are the emerging SHARP ratings which are gaining traction which test modular helmet chin bars and how well they stay closed after impact.  

I recall the Nolan N100-5 get a five star rating ... their highest. Unfortunately, they haven't tested the two flip over helmets I'm interested in.

GHM-PM wrote:

... snipped ... Personally I love the 3/4 helmets ... for the scooter on the street  I go with modular for safety and convenience even though they tend to be on the heavy side. 

Brand of helmets mainly goes to what fits YOU. If it is uncomfortable you will not want to wear the da*n thing.

I too have stayed with 3/4 jet helmets for the past 2 decades.  I want to step up to the next level of protection (flip over) but not go the full face route (too restrictive for me).

Totally agree that FIT is everything.  However, I also value many other considerations like excellent venting, pinlock accepting, peripheral field of vision opening, shell material and weight, and of course price/value ratio.  

To keep me organized, I created a matrix of my criteria of the various modular helmets out there. It didn't take long to see they generally fit into one of four categories.

1) Flip UP vs. flip OVER

2) Canadian availability

3) Fit/head shape, functionality/features, product & owner reviews etc.
4) Price/value/budget ratio (for me personally)

Attached is a .pdf doc with my findings so far. If you'd like a copy, simply PM me and I'll send it to you.  

Thanks to all those with constructive input. I appreciate it. ~ BugJr~

Pdf doc file glitch. Files removed by Admin

Loosemarbles wrote:

... snipped ... I understand that there is a legal requirement here in the UK that flip-up or flip-over helmets have to be 'position lockable'. 

You are right and the legal requirement is called dual P/J homologat.  P stands for the modular chin bar in the "down or locked" position, J stands for the chin bar in the upper position (I think of "j"et helmet to remember which is which).  Both of the flip Over helmets I like are rated P/J.  

Easyrider wrote:

If you ride with any glasses, make sure the helmet is glasses friendly.

For me, this is a must have criterion.  Many brands claim they are "eyeglass friendly" but you really have to look for the eyeglass arm channels and of course, put the lid on to experience it for yourself.

GHM-PM wrote:

... snipped ... A helmet is for safety, nobody wears them for fun or looks. The two main safety standards are DOT and Snell. Most helmets meet DOT but only full face ones can meet Snell. 

All my riding gear buying criteria (whether it goes on my body or bike) is prioritized this way -- 1) safety 2) functionality and 3) looks/cosmetics.  I can't remember buying anything for the latter.  

You are right stating modular helmets are not tested for a SNELL rating which is reserved for track lids as are the FIM ratings.  There are the emerging SHARP ratings which are gaining traction which test modular helmet chin bars and how well they stay closed after impact.  

I recall the Nolan N100-5 get a five star rating ... their highest. Unfortunately, they haven't tested the two flip over helmets I'm interested in.

GHM-PM wrote:

... snipped ... Personally I love the 3/4 helmets ... for the scooter on the street  I go with modular for safety and convenience even though they tend to be on the heavy side.  

Brand of helmets mainly goes to what fits YOU. If it is uncomfortable you will not want to wear the da*n thing. 

I too have stayed with 3/4 jet helmets for the past 2 decades.  I want to step up to the next level of protection (flip over) but not go the full face route (too restrictive for me).

Totally agree that FIT is everything.  However, I also value many other considerations like excellent venting, pinlock accepting, peripheral field of vision opening, shell material and weight, and of course price/value ratio.  

To keep me organized, I created a matrix of my criteria of the various modular helmets out there. It didn't take long to see they generally fit into one of four categories.

1) Flip UP vs. flip OVER

2) Canadian availability

3) Fit/head shape, functionality/features, product & owner reviews etc.
4) Price/value/budget ratio (for me personally)

Attached is a .pdf doc with my findings so far. If you'd like a copy, simply PM me and I'll send it to you.  

Thanks to all those with constructive input. I appreciate it. ~ BugJr~

Pdf doc file glitch. Files removed by Admin

I'll just throw this one out there.  I have been using a Nolan convertible lid for the last few years, an N40 and just replaced it with an N70.  Rather than have the chin bar fold up and over, it just snaps out.  This is the same on both helmets.  The version I got also has a sun visor and came with a pinlock lens.  The helmet passed all the euro tests for both full face and 3/4 usage.  Weight and noise isnt too bad and I have been pleased with the quality of the lid.  For what it's worth, Ryan from Fortnine likes em too and had done his worst to try and make one fail but without success.

Not sure where you can try all these lids on for size, tough by me and I am in a fairly well populated area in VA.  If you want a Bell or HGC or one of the very cheap lids, the local store seems to carry them, but not brands like Nolan.  I buy through Revzilla and they will let you return them unused.  They will also pricematch any local (USA price).  Because I had been using a Nolan XL helmet, I was fairly sure another XL would fit and as it turns out, fits even better than the old one.

I have a Gmax modular and and except for the price, I dont find much to like about it.  Even the visor was not optically clear and I got Revzilla to send me a new one that was better.  Their customer service is also top notch.

EvilTwin wrote:

... snipped ... I have been using a Nolan convertible lid for the last few years, an N40 and just replaced it with an N70.  Rather than have the chin bar fold up and over, it just snaps out.  This is the same on both helmets.  The version I got also has a sun visor and came with a pinlock lens. The helmet passed all the euro tests for both full face and 3/4 usage.  

Thanks EvilTwin ... these snap in/out chin bar ADV helmets have hit my radar during  my research and do fall within our budget of ~ CAD$400.  Our current GMAX 27S helmets are basically a 3/4 ADV helmet with a large visor and peak and they've worked really well for us.  

Two concerns I have with the Nolans.  They're reported to have a neutral to round shape fit.  Of course I need to try it on my own egg to feel for myself which we will of course.   How do you personally find it for fit?

Besides the head shape issue, my other concern with helmets featuring removable chin bars is ... how much will they really protect you in a major chin impact.  I couldn't find the Nolan's listed at the SMART helmet testing site ... although the Nolan line-up generally scores 4/5 stars which is very good indeed.  

SMART Helmet Testing Site - UK

sonuvabug wrote:

EvilTwin wrote:

... snipped ... I have been using a Nolan convertible lid for the last few years, an N40 and just replaced it with an N70.  Rather than have the chin bar fold up and over, it just snaps out.  This is the same on both helmets.  The version I got also has a sun visor and came with a pinlock lens. The helmet passed all the euro tests for both full face and 3/4 usage.  

Thanks EvilTwin ... these snap in/out chin bar ADV helmets have hit my radar during  my research and do fall within our budget of ~ CAD$400.  Our current GMAX 27S helmets are basically a 3/4 ADV helmet with a large visor and peak and they've worked really well for us.  

Two concerns I have with the Nolans.  They're reported to have a neutral to round shape fit.  Of course I need to try it on my own egg to feel for myself which we will of course.   How do you personally find it for fit?

Besides the head shape issue, my other concern with helmets featuring removable chin bars is ... how much will they really protect you in a major chin impact.  I couldn't find the Nolan's listed at the SMART helmet testing site ... although the Nolan line-up generally scores 4/5 stars which is very good indeed.  

SMART Helmet Testing Site - UK

From what I understand the Nolan convertible helmets protect just as well with the chin guard in as a full face.  The N40 I had was considered a round head shape, this new one, the n70-2x is intermediate oval.  The N70 actually fits me better than the N40 did and I thought I had a pretty big, round head (think Charlie Brown...)  It also uses a microratchet vs a D ring which is a big plus in my book.  

This is the video by Ryan F9:



Here is an online review, guy seems to like it... https://bikersinsider.com/nolan-n70-2-x-review/

Since your in CA, what about Fortnine.ca?

'From what I understand the Nolan convertible helmets protect just as well with the chin guard in as a full face.  The N40 I had was considered a round head shape, this new one, the n70-2x is intermediate oval.  The N70 actually fits me better than the N40 did and I thought I had a pretty big, round head (think Charlie Brown...)  It also uses a microratchet vs a D ring which is a big plus in my book.'

I think you're correct. Certainly, the N44, two of which I have, are both ECE and DOT certified but not SHARP or Snell tested.

This is about the ECE Test:

https://billyscrashhelmets.co.uk/ece-22-05-regulation-22-testing-crash-helmets/

I also find the shape right for me; the slighly different shape of the N70 hasn't caused me any problems - I have one of those, too.

Those who have a Nolan with a removeable chin-piece will know how robust they are; I have total confidence in them.

I, too, find the ratchet fastening very easy to use.

The ECE 22-05 safety standards for helmets have long been overdue for an update and are being replaced by ECE 22-O6 in the next couple of years.

Arai and Shoei both have a full face helmet currently on sale that are ECE 22-06 rated. In due course all the other helmet manufacturers will have to produce helmets that meet the new safety standards.

UPDATE - I purchased the LS2 Valiant II - Orbit Jeans model helmet this past weekend.  I wore it for almost an hour in the store's exit foyer (due to local COVID lockdown only pick-up available ... no in-store access).  

The size Large fit my 59 cm, intermediate oval head very well with no hots spots.  It gave me proper chipmunk cheeks and squeezed my ears ever so lightly.  With the manufacturer citing up to a 10% break-in pad compression, I'm hoping these two issues will fade somewhat.  

Disappointingly, this LS2 model was not a proper fit for my sweeties' 57 cm rounder head shape in any size (the proper M, L or even XL).  It created hots spot on her temples and both sides.  Back to my research notes to review the rounder shaped lids I rejected for myself.        

EvilTwin wrote:

... snipped ... This is the video by Ryan F9:



Here is an online review, guy seems to like it...  https://bikersinsider.com/nolan-n70-2-x-review/

Since you're in Canada, what about Fortnine.ca?

EvilTwin, I love Ryan's video critiques.  He's smart, straight shooting, fact based and entertaining ... one of my favourite reviewers!  Unfortunately Canadian Fort Nine is an on-line store only ... i.e. can't actually try gear out before purchasing and I'm not into the buy and return hassle drill.  

I've previously watched the two reviews you linked but didn't pay much attention to them as that specific Nolan N70-2 helmet did not meet my criteria.  However, that lid now moves to the "possible" list for my sweeties' new helmet as they do seem to be more round/neutral shape than oval.  Of course, the true test will be the "heads on" test for her.  

MikeO wrote:

... snipped ... From what I understand the Nolan convertible helmets protect just as well with the chin guard in as a full face.  The N40 I had was considered a round head shape, this new one, the n70-2x is intermediate oval.  The N70 actually fits me better than the N40 did and I thought I had a pretty big, round head (think Charlie Brown...)

I think you're correct. Certainly, the N44, two of which I have, are both ECE and DOT certified but not SHARP or Snell tested. This is about the ECE Test: https://billyscrashhelmets.co.uk/ece-22-05-regulation-22-testing-crash-helmets/

I also find the shape right for me; the slightly different shape of the N70 hasn't caused me any problems - I have one of those, too.

Those who have a Nolan with a removeable chin-piece will know how robust they are; I have total confidence in them.

Good feedback MikeO.  Thanks. Nolan's removable chin bar seems more robust than some other helmets' removable chin bars I've researched.  There is a motorcycle gear dealer about 2 hours away with an extensive inventory including Nolan's and when our "lock down" restrictions lift, we'll head down there for a "heads on" fitting session.

Once I have enough hours and kilometers under my new LS2 Valiant II helmet, I'll post a review under a separate thread.