'Wing top-heavy: solutions?

Hi all,

I have an '08 'Wing that I got new late last summer. I love its power and control, especially on major roads. I've added a Laminar lip (an excellent addition!), isogrips, air horn, back-off light, etc. But even though I am an experienced rider, I am having trouble with what seems like a combination of my being vertically challenged (5'1", though with thick-soled boots) and the 'Wing seeming to be top- or front-heavy. I find myself becoming nervous at low speeds and tight turns, which NEVER used to phase me on my Burgman 400. The 'Wing seems taller and more upright or with a higher center of gravity than I'm used to. Or like. Between the center of gravity issue and the touchiness of the front brake, it's putting a serious damper on my fun!

Any suggestions will be appreciated!
Many thanks,
Janewayfan

Jane,

How many miles do you have on your SWing? If you don't have too many miles maybe it will change with more miles as you get better used to it. Or maybe due to your height it may help shaving some off the side or the top of the seat so you can get better footing when you stop.

As for the front brake you many just need to adjust it so it isn't touchy. But the SWing does weigh about 70 lbs more than the07 B400, and about 85lbs heavier then the pre 07 B400, but there have been others that have made the same change and gotten used to the SWings extra weight. Maybe others can chime in with some helpful hints.

Thanks, Jeff. I've got about 3K on it. I plan to go back to the dealer this week to see about the brake...and perhaps adjusting the rear shock. I'm aware of the weight differential but this bike really seems to have a much higher center of gravity--compared to my old bike and even cruiser-style motorcyles of the same displacement.

It's not the stopping I'm concerned about--I can essentially flat-foot it--but how the bike feels at low speeds and the center of gravity issue. I find myself stopping and considering turns waayyy more than I used to.

Thanks,
Bry

Hey Jane,

I have ridden a 400 (2007). I believe there is about a 2.5 inch lower seat height on the 400 as compared to the Wing and the 400 also weighs a good bit less as stated. It's important to feel comfortable or at least to be gaining confidence as you get more experience on the Swing as stated above. If your comfort level has not increased at low speed situations, I would try to do something to improve it. The spring settings will help some so that is what I would try first and see if that helps change the feel of the bike since it will bring it a little lower for you. If you can, try to find and abandoned parking lot and practice figure 8's in a rectangular box. Start with a large figure 8 and then work down to a smaller figure 8 as you get more comfortable with the maneuver. In the larger figure 8, you'll go slightly faster making it easier to maintain balance. The smaller rectangle will be more challenging but good practice. This is the same thing they do in the MSF safety course. You can use cones or anything else that you want to outline a rectangle in the parking lot. I think this practice will help you to gain more confidence with the Swing. Just progress at your own pace.

As Ron said, adjusting the shocks to a softer setting will bring the seat closer to the ground. If you put your bike up on the center stand, you should be able to adjust the shocks fairly easily by hand. Just remember to go 5-4-3-2-1, or 1-2-3-4-5; Honda says not to go from 1-5 or 5-1.

Set the shock at number 1 when viewed from the back (like you are looking at the license plate). This will cause the most sag in the spring, and the seat will be a little closer to the ground.

The B400 is about 1.8 inches lower at the seat than the Honda. Bring out them platform shoes! I am at the other end of the problem - at six feet tall, I had to create some extra leg room by moving the butt stop.

Also, the left brake lever controls the back brake, and after a slight delay, it also activates one piston of the front brake. During slow speed maneuvers there should be no reason to use the right brake lever (front only). You should get better control by using the left lever only.

Thanks for joining; hope these suggestions help you feel more comfortable with the Swing. Now that you've ridden the larger twin motor, do you think you could go back to the single 400?

Hyperpro springs also improve the feel of the bike alot especially during starting and stopping.

Thanks, RonJr, Buddy and Dspevack! You've all made great suggestions and given good advice, and I appreciate it. I also remembered that folks here said to replace the stock tires--with apparently good reason. They don't feel as "sticky" as they might or as other tires have to me.

And I may also take off the "tupperware" around the handlebars and try lowering the bars so my arms don't feel so high up. With my shorter arms, the current/standard height feels too high. When I lowered the bars on the 400, it also helped with handling/maneuvers.

And, no, I couldn't go back to the 400! Love the power of the 600 too much! And my wife bought a 650 Burgie at the same time so it's good to be about the same power-wise on trips together. I will post a mini-review on the diffs between the 400 and 'Wing...and the Suzuki and Honda.

Thanks so much again,

Bry aka Janewayfan

First I have 09 SilverWing and have had new 08 Burgman 400, so know how they ride.

SilverWing with junk added and top box does feel top heavy or can feel top heavy at slow speeds. Add case of Coke in top box, weight is really felt up high.

Front brake is not adjustable. Brake dust or stuff stuck to disk can be. cleaned, but I don't think that is your problem.

Being short has nothing to do with riding skillfully as bikes are designed to be ridden feet up. Strictly skill thing. Only one foot needs to come up at stop, from good motorcycle practice, the left. Watch at HD or Goldwing Rally, the tons of unskilled paddling with both feet in grassy, wet parking area. MSF Training ain't very good, designed to be easy to sell bikes. Look who dumps money into it. Back to short--Paris-Dakar was once won by guy on BMW who could not put his feet down at all at rest!

Handfull of front brake at 2 mph with bike leaned can put you on head.


Skills need to be practiced---scooters need to be ridden everyday. Suggest parking lot practice---figure 8's, circles with steering at full lock(really difficult with no alone rear brake--but can be done. 8" X 12' plank good too, eye ahead and actually easy. And don't forget braking practice, wet & dry. MSF to make it easy uses 6" cones, try reg. 3' traffic cones to get really skillful.

I am not MSF fan---they miss some basics---my MSF instructor card dated 1974. Notice since they are about only way for many people to get lic. our injuries and deaths since 1991 have been going up(with dip in past couple of years) while Germany's with unlimited speed have been going down. Training?

Bottom Line: SilverWing can be ridden safely at low speeds--the feeling of top heavy goes away or can be compinsated for. With any 2 wheeler with feet out in front(some scooter, cruisers) you do not have the absolute control of a conventional motorcycle with knees on tank, feet on pegs and weight being at least on part by legs.

I find the SilverWing ok to ride, it is different class than 400 Burgman with engine solid mount to frame, less unsprung weight. and more power....and needs to be respected.

John Grinsel

Thanks, John. I do have a Coo Case, though it's often just got a sweatshirt in it. And you're right about being short. Doesn't matter. And not the issue here. My bike handling skills are pretty good, though I can always practice. And yes, I do ride several times a week, including 35-minute, each way commutes to work at least three days.

Thanks,
Bry

j costa variator. I didnt think it gave me the super acceleration everyone talks about but it made slow speed maneuvering much easier. It gets rid of a the lag from the start and fine tunes the acceleration at low speeds making turns and especially u turns much easier. Im 5 foot 9 but only 125 lbs and was never comfortable making slow turns until i put this guy on.

You could shave off about 20 pounds of weight by replacing the stock Honda exhaust with a lighter aftermarket one - like the Leo Vince...

Thanks La Moto, for the tip on the j costa variator. I'm going to look into this product. (Unfortunately, our Honda dealer is not big on accessories--knowledge or installation. I'm actually considering going to the Yahama dealer nearby.

Thanks, Scootist. Not sure I need to trim weight (on Janeway, that is. ), but I'll keep it in mind.

Bry aka Janewayfan

J Costa is a very easy install. Look in the pictorials on this site for belt change info. It's the same process. It will take you an hour the first time, twenty minutes the next time.

BTW, when doing slow maneuvers, try bringing your feet underneath you and sitting forward a bit. (More of a traditional bike posture.) I like to do that when moving slow, or in the twisties.

Janewayfan,

If you decide to go with the J. costa you should look at this link:

https://www.silverwing600.com/pictorials-how-to-perform-maintenance-f21/variator-and-belt-pictorial-t23.htm

You can open the "attachment" and save the .pdf file to your computer. It will give step by step instructions on how to do it with pictures. You can save a lot of money doing this yourself.

Also, this place stocks many Silver Wing accessories and mods:

www.scootertrap.com

Hope this helps,

buddy19520 wrote:

J Costa is a very easy install. Look in the pictorials on this site for belt change info. It's the same process. It will take you an hour the first time, twenty minutes the next time.>>

Thanks for the tip (JeffR, too), but Bry + Repair = certain disaster! That said, my wife's pretty handy so... if I offer to wash her bike, this might work!

<

>>

Thanks again--an excellent tip. I can try bringing said feet underneath...already am forward giving my short stature.

Cheers,

Bry

i used the pictorial too, id say it took me two hours maybe a little more but im not at all mechanically inclined. The guy who usually works on mine wanted $210 and the pictorial is wonderfully clear so i gave it a shot and it worked out.

La Moto,

Glad the Pictorial helped. By the way I have a Yahoo site for the Bay Area Maxi Riders and am wondering if you are a member. I usually try to arrange group rides every month but just been too busy. If your not a member I can send you the link. I'm in Fremont, Ca and many riders are from all around the middle of the state.

Janewayfan wrote:

But even though I am an experienced rider, I am having trouble with what seems like a combination of my being vertically challenged (5'1", though with thick-soled boots) and the 'Wing seeming to be top- or front-heavy.

I apologize if this appears as though I am questioning your experience ... the specific motorcycle(s) or scooter(s) may help to

which motorcycle(s): ?
which scooters(s) : Burgman 400, ?


Would shaving some of the foam from the seat front nose would also help??

Slow speed maneuvering on a motorcycle is properly done with the engine running slightly above ,slight pressure on the rear brake, using the clutch to right at the friction point to control speed. I can ride my Goldwing in lock to lock figure 8s all day long using that technique. I've adapted that method for close quarters handling of my SW. I hold enough throttle to keep the bike moving and use the rear brake to control speed. It doesn't hurt the clutch since it's lightly engaged and it eliminates the slight lag and freewheeling effect of the clutch engaging and releasing when you least expect it. One other important thing is to look where you want to go well ahead of your bike. If you keep looking at what you want to miss or close in you'll drop the bike. NEVER USE THE FRONT BRAKE WHEN MANEUVERING AT LOW SPEEDS! The bike will go down.
Here's an article by Jerry Paladino one of the best at teaching low speed handling.

http://www.ridemyown.com/articles/riding/BTB-slowspeed.shtml

http://www.ridemyown.com/articles/riding/index.shtml

http://www.webbikeworld.com/motorcycle-training/videos/motorcycle-training-video.htm

For Super Scooter Rider-----I am sure you are aware both late model GoldWings and the SilverWing have linked brakes---so little difficult to use rear brake as balancing aid. I try it I can feel front end dip.


I wish rear brake acted alone.

John Grinsel

exavid wrote:

NEVER USE THE FRONT BRAKE WHEN MANEUVERING AT LOW SPEEDS! The bike will go down.

I'm familiar with these techniques. I don't use the front brake at low speeds. Perhaps I should have said when coming to a stop. I've found the SWing's braking required some adjusting on my part vs. the Burgie 400 because the SWing's front brake was more powerful and touchy.

I actually do the opposite of what some folks suggest re: sitting up with feet under -- I push forward with my feet all the way and press myself into the back of the seat, and It actually makes me feel like I'm lowering the center of gravity that way and feel much more stable. That's how I rode Tail of the Dragon at Deal's Gap, and that's how I usually ride when there's a lot of tight curves or bends. I have very short legs so I don't know if that's what makes the difference for me?

Hammy wrote:

I actually do the opposite of what some folks suggest re: sitting up with feet under -- I push forward with my feet all the way and press myself into the back of the seat, and It actually makes me feel like I'm lowering the center of gravity that way and feel much more stable. That's how I rode Tail of the Dragon at Deal's Gap, and that's how I usually ride when there's a lot of tight curves or bends. I have very short legs so I don't know if that's what makes the difference for me?

I like the foot forward position much better, too. Without a tank to grip between one's knees, I feel like the feet-forward position is the next best thing in terms of feeling like you're one with the bike (I feel like I'm just sitting on top and much less secure the other way).

Without the tank between my knees to push to start my lean, I find that cross-steering makes up for the difference.

Having an ample butt to throw around doesn't hurt.

john grinsel wrote:

For Super Scooter Rider-----I am sure you are aware both late model GoldWings and the SilverWing have linked brakes---so little difficult to use rear brake as balancing aid. I try it I can feel front end dip.

True but not particularly meaningful. Since at low speeds the linked brakes are not applied very hard the amount of the linking is very small and can be ignored. I can consistantly ride lock to lock figure 8s with my 1800 GW and my SW using the fixed throttle rear brake dragging technique. Admittedly it works better on a motorcycle with a clutch but it still helps to stabilize the SW at slow speed.