Gasless MIG Useage

Hi,

Has anybody had any experience using a MIG Welder with flux core wire instead of Co2/Argon mix shielding gas???

I've just received mine today throught the post - an early crimbo present/money saving necessity - and having discovered that infact it was set up for 'Gas welding' despite the instructions claiming otherwise (it always pays to read the instructions when things don't seem to go as they should ) and sorting that out.

My main problem seems to be I don't seem to be able to get a clean weld bead..... Infact what I am getting is a lot of splatter and metal burn off - indicating to me that I had the power turned up to high, so I backed it off. Now I have lots of splatter and no burn through, neither do I have any thing that resembles a weld either .

The piece I tested the unit on was admittedly carbon coated steel (which my other Gas MIG dealt with, with no real problems) so I'm wondering if items to be welded using the gasless unit need to be throughly cleaned of slag etc. prior to firing up??

I've only had about 10 mins prac this evening before I knocked it on the head and will be getting some test plates out of the scrap bin tomorrow to do more practice on, but I would appreciate if anybody has any thoughts on the matter.

Its all the more annoying as I spent 3 years at college (1 day a week) doing C&G in all for welding disciplines and now I can't get a flipping machine to weld........

Oh well, here to more practice

Hi Skippy,

Sounds like you need to get your feed, voltage and gas set up. I just wish I was there to help you.

I sold all my other welding machines and just use an old HOBART MIG, 115Vac unit. It just keeps on working for me.

I've welded for a few years. What welding machine and gas flow meter did you get? I never did like self-shielding wire and just use solid wire. Right now I'm running .024 with Co2 gas on mild steel. I just work with lite weight materials now.

Hi Dennis,

Its a gasless Mig, so I don't need to worry about flow metering. I guess you're right about the rest. I think I cut some 1mm sheet tomorrow and get Sal to assist me 'tuning' the feed & power.

Oddly enough, I've just had a knock on the door from a neighbour friend who wants me to do some welding on an old 'Landrover'...... One thing my tutor (and a great friend) warned me about was people discovering your ability to weld, and then wanting you to do cheap car repairs etc. while lying freezing cold on a damp drive way - Well not this bod!!!! I've had enough of being cold/wet etc. sitting in the bottom of trenches etc. to ever want to do it again voluntarily (unless its an emergency of course) !

I used to have a MIG welder and with an Argon and CO2 bottle. Used it for a few years but ended up selling it and keeping my acetylene torch. I've used the old gas bottles for a lot of years, originally got it for repairing steel tube airframes when I lived in Alaska. One thing I like about gas welding is that it's pretty versatile. Unfortunately my eyes aren't as sharp as they once were and I'm not as steady with thing 1/16" rod. Still can weld but not near as nice as I used to. This getting old stuff isn't for sissies for sure.
I had a neighbor once that used to bring stuff over for me to weld for him. He never offered to buy any rod or help with anything at my place. One day he wanted a cracked fender on his old truck welded. So I took my torch and used a tip about two sizes too big with overly thick rod and went to work on that thin fender. Needless to say he didn't bother me with stuff after that. His fender was welded but had a big raised welt looking bead that must has been proud of his fender by at least an 1/8". I just told him I must be losing my touch. Cured the problem.

Now that I like As you say in this day and age, in such austere times it is nice for folks to offer to cover the cost of materials, even if such an offer is turned down.

I do have a friend for whom any work is a pleasure - he pays me in wonderful home made jam, made from fruit picked from his own gardens, lovely on a bit of warm toast first thing with a shot of wake up juice (coffee)!

Well, having had the thing for a week I thought I'd share my thoughts.

I've just about got my head around it!!!! At best I could describe it as an automated arc welder - at worst, a waste of money........!

Why? Because I already have an arc welder, which is infinitely more 'tuneable' than the Wolf and cost half the money! The only down side with an arc welder - if there really is to one - is the need to constantly replace sticks as you use them With the Wolf, obviously this is an unecessary expediant as the wire is flux cored.

I like to think I'm a half decent weldor, but this unit is giving me a bit of a hard time dialing myself in - so much so that I'm going down to the body shop supply centre tomorrow and getting a sheet of 1mm steel which I'll take down to the local college where I did my C&G's and use their plate cutter to make up a load of test & practice pieces. I've got a trike to start building next year and the last thing I want anybody to see is 'dirty' welds!

I've had a good look around some the 'welding advice' forums on the net - one or two are hilarious, but on the hole most users seem to agree that the 'gasless mig, is ok, has its uses, but still is no where near as good as a 'Gas shielded' unit for most applications. The actual welds themselves also seem to be more 'spattery' and more prone to porousness, which ain't great. Its good enough for me though manufacturing Garden braziers and gates etc. Just as long as nobody decides to use one as part of an aircraft we'll all be safe

From what I've seen and experienced from these flux wire welders they are just plain dirty. As you say they spatter and leave holes in the weld. Is yours an DC machine? Any possibility they wired it's polarity backwards?

exavid wrote:

From what I've seen and experienced from these flux wire welders they are just plain dirty. As you say they spatter and leave holes in the weld. Is yours an DC machine? Any possibility they wired it's polarity backwards?

It a 220 AC dual purpose machine, i.e. it can be converted for use with a shielding gas. The polarity is adjustable and the instructions on how to do this a reasonably clear - however, there is a third terminal in the wiring bay that has got me wondering. I'm off down to the Tech tomorrow to see an old friend (and hopefully use the departments metal cutting facilities), I'm going to stick the unit in the boot of the car as well and ask if he has any suggestions. I think I've just about got myself sorted with it, but would like to produce decent, consistant looking welds with it.

Today is another day! I went off down to my old Tech today to see if I could have a chat with a friend of mine who has had nearly 40 yrs experience in the field of welding. I bumped into him straight away (the place has changed somewhat over the last few years) and he told me that not only was my tutor Neil was still working for the college - he'd retired just after I finished - but was running a class today!

I wondered into the shop and found him preping for a class, we chatted and then got down to business. I explained my problem with the Gasless Mig and asked for his opinion; I should've know better! 'Set it up' he said, good job I'd taken the set with me.......... So I hopped out to the car and got it. Setting up only involved plugging it in and clipping on the return lead to a suitable point on the bench.

After a quick glance at the controls, he set to on some 0.9mm steel plate and soon had it sizzling along, however I detected a hesitancy in the welding process that at first we both thought was the way the machine fed the wire..... A little more fiddling and Neil came to the conclusion it wasn't the feed????????? 'Tell you what' he said, 'why don't you set it up with a gas feed and swap the wire, that way we can tell a couple of things'. What things I wondered, unplugging the set.

Shortly we had it reconfigured and off he went again doing test pieces. It seemed to be producing slightly better, more consistant welds with a separate gas shroud - which sort of makes the whole thing a bit redundant because I want to use it with flux core wire and NOT a gas bottle.

We spent upwards of an hour on an off adjusting it, before Neil gave me his professional opinion. 'It's a higher end of the range DIY unit' he said, which is nice to know because I didn't pay 'that much' for it. However, it does have some minor points that I would've like to have known prior to buying it.

1. At lower power settings, using .8mm wire, either flux core or standard, the machine doesn't appear to have enough power to push the current through, hence the spitter, spatter hesitant welding pattern. At these setting it would be a lot better to use .6mm wire.

2. You can't get flux core wire in .6mm, which sort brings me back to square one - to use that medium, I need a gas botttle, which is why I bought the gasless mig in the first place - to get away from a gas bottle!!!

3. At higher settings, on thicker plate the machine works just as well as a gas shrouded mig, the weld is not 'so' clean, and there is definately more light spatter, but thats easily cleaned off!

Having now dialed myself in, with a bit of guidance, I think that be keeping it - the majority of the produciton I do is heavy gauge - garden furniture, gates, chassis, trike frames etc. so this machine will get used . Perhaps if production picks up then I may re-invest in a Argon/CO2 bottle, but until the finances dictate then I'll be sticking with my gasless unit

try adjusting the voltage.
most flux core machines require at leat 28 volts to operate properly.
good luck

I think the only reason to use your Welder with Flux core wire is when you are outside when you have a little breeze about I have a Hobart 140 and it is crappy with Flux core And I tried every Adjustment this machine has. Now with C-25 I could stick 2 pieces together and it does not look to bad So what I ended up doing was Going on CL and I found a Used miller AC-DC Stick Welder For the little thicker metal instead of Flux core. Still have the same amount of slag and cleaning, but burns better And I do not weld for anyone but myself I stay out of trouble that way .

Roy, the machine has 6 voltage settings (or taps on the trans), I would've had to spend twice if not three times the amount to get a unit with infinite variable voltage - something I just couldn't afford.

As I said in the previous post, at the lower voltage end of the range the machine performed well with .6mm wire & argon/Co2, but not so well .8mm flux core. Fortunately I'm not plannng to go welding tin plate.

I've owned 3 welding machines in my short life. The one I use now is a Hobart Handler, MIG (Metal & Inert Gas) #6969A-1, that I purchased back in '89 when I first statred to weld. It's been a great machine. Kinda funny looking with an all black plasic case and a carring handle on the top. It just plugs into a standard household AC 120V AC outlet. All these years and not a single problem. It handles the big 10 pound reel of solid or self sheilding wire. Use CO2 as the sheilding gas. I'd like to try Argon with a CO2 mixed gas...Some say it's the way to go.

Sold my Miller-Matic 200, last year. Just to big for my little shop and I did not have a 220V AC outlet to plug it in.

I like to weld. I can get creative with it.

Dennis you are right That little 140 does it all Once I learned to get that metal all shined up mill finish and all. That stick welder will burn thru a 1/4"of paint and rust

DennisB wrote:

I like to weld. I can get creative with it.

Lol Denis, I know what you mean. Nothing beats wondering into the workshop and 'creating' something - even if you don't actually need it!

Skippy wrote:

DennisB wrote:

I like to weld. I can get creative with it.

Lol Denis, I know what you mean. Nothing beats wondering into the workshop and 'creating' something - even if you don't actually need it!

That's what is called sculpture. :not worthy: