The New SilverWing???

The French ScooterStation.com website has a new post today up-dating Honda's new "scooter". Here is a Google translation from the website:

Mid New Honda in Action: A Touring version?



This is no longer a secret that Honda will bring a Yamaha TMAX Maxiscooter competitor, probably introduced in the autumn. In this photo broadcast and disclosed by our colleagues at motorcycle-usa.com, you can admire the craft in action, with the complete package for tourism. Travelers will appreciate!

To go hunting on public land Yamaha TMAX, we imagined the future Maxiscooter Honda ultra athlete. The prototype presented in Milan last year and some photos in 3D rendering, which we recently received (info to read here) confirm indeed. However, it will also rely on a touring version as evidenced by this first picture "stolen" from Maxiscooter Japanese. Revealed by our American colleagues of motorcycle-usa.com (Photo copyright Brenda Priddy & Company), this picture shows the new Honda motorbikes in action, complete with passenger and luggage. A top-box and bags as well as a fully integrated Honda bubble well sized part of the staffing of the new New Mid intended for passengers on long voyages. As should happen with the BMW Concept-C , one can imagine that two versions (at least) will be offered to the public, no doubt visible in the coming autumn fairs.

No indication of its engine is so far available. However, we can see from these images that the New Mid Honda retains its transmission chain and its imposing size. Further details to follow, stay tuned!

This is obviously the same bike Honda released late last year in Milan as the "Mid Concept" bike. Notice that it has CHAIN drive - that will get the SilverWing die-hards on this site chattering

By the way; click here for more information from Motorcycle-USA.

Regards,
Peter

Gotta love google translate!. Cant wait to "go hunting on public land!"
I like the black wheels though, but this is set up to hide the details like they do when testing new cars.

And is it me? He's grabbing a handful of rear brake(A.B.S. i assume) and the poor soul on the back doesn't look real happy there!

Maybe they finally listened, and got rid of that side by side headlight setup!

I would buy one.

I would Really like that one , even with chain final drive.
Factory bags and trunk. Cool.

MaxB

That new Honda looks good, like Tagg says, I hope they have moved from the side by side light arrangement.

Passengers body language speaks volumes, he/she really doesn't look comfortable at all.

I hope the silver stripes aren't gaffa tape!!! May explain the handful of left lever!!!!

MaxB wrote:

I would Really like that one...

Max (and others),

This is what the original "concept" bike looked like:



So you can see the similarities with the "prototype" from ScooterStation.com.

Doug said: "Passengers body language speaks volumes, he/she really doesn't look comfortable at all." -- That's because its me riding with my wife on the back .

Regards,
Peter

The size of those wheels looks like the storage capacity would be severely reduced. And as for chain drive - I spent so many years oiling/adjusting/cleaning the filthy things that I was so glad to go a nice belt final drive, and I would never want to go back to those bad old days!

I agree about the chain. No more for me, they make a mess, are a mess to service and wear out sprockets. I don't know exactly you can really call that bike a 'scooter' either, looks more like a motorcycle to me. Maybe that's what Honda is banking on, scooters don't sell well in the US due to the lack of 'macho' image. Too bad they don't have a great advertising campaign like they did in the 60s.

The new Silver Wing is the SW 600-T, the twin headlight restyled model. Whatever this new model finally turns out like, who wants to go back to chain drive. It's also supposed to have class leading storage space, maybe that's if you buy the expensive Honda panniers and box. Then as usual with Honda they'll give them away free with the 'bike' as winter draws near and sales are slow.

Just curious but what does the chain do that the belt doesn`t .Is there still a variator and belt and clutch. Cant picture how this setup works

Who knows , It may have a transmission similar to the DN-01 with a chain final. Chains last a long time these days.

I enlarged the photo and there is a switch set on the left bar ...may gear shift like DN-01????

OH and She is smiling as a pillion passenger in that pic.

MaxB (who can oil a chain once in a while)

I like the idea of the panniers ( hope they can be fitted to both sides and will take Givi Monokey panniers).

I look forward to seeing one 'in the flesh'.

Cheers,

MaxB wrote:

Who knows , It may have a transmission similar to the DN-01 with a chain final. Chains last a long time these days.

MaxB (who can oil a chain once in a while)

Max, you'd be wasting your time trying to oil the chain on a DN-01, they are shaft drive...

To be honest I don't really like the look of the thing, for all the world to me it looks like somebody has crashed a Silverwing into a VFR 800, the fairing looks like it came out of the same parts bin thats for sure!

The 17 inch wheels are great, but the retro grade step back to use a chain is utter cods whalop, most if these machines in the UK will be used by folks commuting (and yes I know that the UK isn't the only country on the planet that has bikers) but surely most folks will be groaning by Honda's tight arse penny pinching - I hate chains, why the hell didn't they fit belt drive???? Virtually maintenance free and a lot more sense on a commuter.

Chain - the biggest draw-back on the GP800; it consumes sprockets like they're going out of style.
They cost a fortune to replace.

Not interesting to me. Looks like poor weather protection. Chain pain, but I have made them last up to 44,000 miles in past ===lots of oil and mess. Maybe easier rear wheel removal.

Scooters should not cost so much as they are really putt putt.

Give me good, buffet free weather protection, big gas tank, easy remove wheels and price around $5,000 US.....and I bite.

As I tend to get new bike/scooter every year, the selection gets harder and harder each year---And then to think of it I have new NT (Deauville) which is old design/Honda parts bin bike---100% reliable---lacking only the step thru feature. And then it is in the super scooter price range. While it is new to US it has been around for 10 years or so elsewhere...and might not be around much longer.

I have had most enjoyment from scooters of max. 250cc displacement, maybe the Reflex being the best of the lot, but I really like/liked Helix and had 4 new ones----the built in trunk and easy belt change, set valves in parking lot being the great features---minus J speed rated tires on bike that would run 70mph down hill tailwind and could take wide open all day.

It doesn't seem to be good time in the bad ecominic times to bring new expensive toy to market. In US two wheels will never be true part of trans. system. Sad. In past I checked AMA Hq, MSF Hq, Honda US for bikes in parking lot on work day. They drive cars to work!

John Grinsel









John Grinsel

This does not look like a scooter. How do you define a Scooter?

State of Maryland seems to define it as under 50cc.

I think this thing looks fine as a motorcylce. I for one would miss the step through feature, though I really like the idea of big wheels.

jb1016 wrote:

Just curious but what does the chain do that the belt doesn`t .Is there still a variator and belt and clutch. Cant picture how this setup works

I don't believe there is a variator. This bike uses Honda's new dual clutch transmission (as used in the new VFR1200 and VW's and Audi's). So its more like a traditional engine/gearbox set-up but the gearbox can operate in a fully automatic mode or can operate in a manual mode by pressing buttons on either side of the handlebar (one side for change up and the other for change down). Click here to see how a dual clutch automatic works.

So, the crank shaft is parallel with the gearbox shafts. The out-put shaft from the gearbox is connected to a "pulley" to drive the back wheel. The drive mechanism in this case is a chain - probably because its the most efficient means of drive, its cheaper than a belt and it takes up less space than a belt. A shaft drive would be much more expensive again.

An aside: There is a great deal of clap-trap on this forum about the use of chains; most of it seems to come from folks who had chain driven bikes either in the UK or in the dim distant past ("Same thing!" did I hear somebody call out ). Modern chains are simply no problems compared to the bad old days.

Hope that helps,

Peter

Thanks for the info about dual clutches, but your comments re: chains are a little insulting & patronising. I last had a chain driven bike 5 years ago (a Hyabusa) and yes, it still needed adjusting and oiling and was messy. If you can state quite categorically that they no longer have those needs then show me links that proves it rather than add 'clap-trap' of your own!

pja wrote:

An aside: There is a great deal of clap-trap on this forum about the use of chains; most of it seems to come from folks who had chain driven bikes either in the UK or in the dim distant past ("Same thing!" did I hear somebody call out ). Modern chains are simply no problems compared to the bad old days.

Hope that helps,

Peter

Coops666 wrote:

your comments re: chains are a little insulting & patronising. I last had a chain driven bike 5 years ago (a Hyabusa) and yes, it still needed adjusting and oiling and was messy. If you can state quite categorically that they no longer have those needs then show me links that proves it rather than add 'clap-trap' of your own!

I didn't read anything insulting or patronizing in pja's response. He did put a smiley beside his remark about Brit's "living in the past" about chain technology. That smiley signifies a lighthearted response, not something to be taken too seriously. Your response was quite aggressive, don't you think?

PJA is right. Modern chains with sealed O-rings require very little, if any, maintenance. Belt driven CVT's require more maintenance IMHO.

Thanks for the info pja sounds like a great system ,also sounds expensive

Coops,

I had many chain drive bikes and even though I had to oil and adjust them from time to time it never seemed an annoyance to me. Even the Harley I had was pretty simple to do. Usually only a 5 min job and I didn't do it very often. I would buy a chain drive bike again but would prefer a shaft or belt drive. If Honda comes out with this bike I would seriously consider it if it was comfortable.

I think that once people go to a belt or shaft driven bike they just get used to the simplicity of it and it does grow on others to not have to adjust a chain. It seems you were a bit harsh on PJA. He has always been a very respectful person here and has never shown to be aggressive at all. Just my opinion.

I wouldn't like to own a bike or scooter with an exposed chain. Modern chains may have moved on a bit technology wise but you still have to clean, lubricate, and adjust and align them. Since a lot of bikes don't have a main stand these days, you probably need a paddock stand or a roller device to rotate the rear wheel to do the job properly. I've got a couple of German bike accessory catalogues where there's pages of stuff to perform those simple tasks.

Of course being in the UK we still prefer to remove chains and lower them into tins of acrid smelling melted grease, bubbling away on the stove. Any left over grease we use to waterproof our Barbour suits, gauntlet gloves, and the leather bits of our pudding basin helmets.

Meldrew wrote:

Of course being in the UK we still prefer to remove chains and lower them into tins of acrid smelling melted grease, bubbling away on the stove. Any left over grease we use to waterproof our Barbour suits, gauntlet gloves, and the leather bits of our pudding basin helmets.

I wonder if I am the only colonial that has actually owned and used a Belstaff (Barbour) suit? I still use gauntlet gloves but my old pudding basin got lost sometime in the mid '60s.
Thanks for the memories.

Jon

If Harley did away with chains and went with a belt on cruiser and touring Then that must say something about chain Maint. I know on all of my Bicycles If you do not keep up with the chain It will cost you down the road If you do not clean and lube the road grit will wear all the cogs down to nothing even my Titanium rear gears . A toothed belt needs to be cleaned also, because of road grit. Now for sport Bikes That is another story a chain is a must So is high Maint. Just my Thoughts

jb1016 wrote:

Thanks for the info pja sounds like a great system ,also sounds expensive

From what I've read Honda is aiming this at beginners and "those returning to motorcycling" so the price can't be too steep.

Also when you look at how these gearboxes are actually made there is not a great deal of difference internally to a conventional gearbox. They are much more similar than say a standard hydraulic automatic gearbox. Honda has been doing a lot of R&D on automatic type gearboxes (the VFR and the DN-01 for example) and the twin clutch 'box seems to have got the nod. Commentators are predicting many more bikes over coming years with these gearboxes including the CBR range. The good thing for those of us with scooter and "real" ( just in case this comment is taken too seriously) motorcycles is that the boundaries get really blurred. Take this new Mid Concept bike - automatic gearbox AND big wheels (of course the down-side is the chain drive ). These are exciting times for "glass-half-full" motorcyclists.

Regards,
Peter

Hi,

I just read this on the www.maxi-scoots.com site:

http://maxi-scoots.com/scoot/index.php?topic=2207.0

It seems the new Honda Mid-concept is a 700cc bike. If this is the bike, even with the chain drive, I like so far. It would depend on how comfortable it is though.

JeffR_ wrote:

I just read this ...

It seems the new Honda Mid-concept is a 700cc bike. If this is the bike, even with the chain drive, I like so far. It would depend on how comfortable it is though.

Jeff,

IMHO this bike seems to offer the best (and perhaps worst) of all worlds. For me its particularly important. Honda Australia has stopped importing both the 600 cc and 400 cc SilverWing models. The biggest scooter they sell is the SH300i (a good scooter but without much open road cred).

The Mid Concept is supposed to be a "World" bike so chances are Honda Australia will import it.

I'm thinking about moving on from the SilverWing next year. The Burgman Exec (only model available to us) is just too big and has too many gizzmos. The Yamaha Tmax is a great scooter but just too expensive (more than my next two options). Harley Davidson Sportster Superlow (the one my heart tells me to buy). The Kawasaki VN900 (a really good practical bike). And last but not least, the Kawasaki W800. Italian scooters are either too small or too expensive.

Regards,
Peter

The W800 is the one that lights me up. That is one nice bike

Unfortunately, not in the US...

Sorry...now returning to your regularly scheduled programming.

I would prefer not to deal with chains if possible; however, it depends a lot on which bike we're talking about. With a V-Strom, for instance, I'd put up with it because the V-Strom is such a good motorcycle generally....it's on my short list. Same thing with the Triumph 900s of any stripe. If you want a certain bike and it has chain drive, it would not stop me from buying it...

Jinglebob wrote:

... If you want a certain bike and it has chain drive, it would not stop me from buying it...

Bob,

EXACTLY! That's what I've been trying to say above. I find it odd that some folks will declare a bike "no good" because of something like being chain driven. Square wheels or a rubber chassis I could agree with. My previous mount was a Honda CB900F Hornet (or CB919 in the USA) and it was chain driven and the chain was no an issue. I guess you are either a "glass-half-full" or a "glass-half-empty" type of person

I agree with your thoughts on the Suzuki; several mates have them and they make a great tourer, especially in a country like Australia. One is fitted with Givi panniers and top box; really a nice one-up tourer. Problem is I have a bad back and can't get my leg over the seat. The SV650 (same engine but more sporty frame) is another great bike.

Don't you get the Kawasaki W800 in the USA? (I'm assuming that's where you are from.) That's a real pity.

Regards,
Peter

Peter,

I had a Sportster once and I really liked it, but it was kind of short for me. I'm 6' and was pretty cramped on it. When i put highway pegs on the frame it helped out a lot but after about 100 miles I had to take a good rest. If you are tall you may want to try to test one out if possible. I do remember the year after the one I bought that they went to a 5 speed and belt drive , but I really liked mine and it ran great, just kind of a small frame.

JeffR_ wrote:

...I had a Sportster once and I really liked it, but it was kind of short for me...

Jeff,

I'm a bit shorter than you but I am well aware of the "ergonomics" of Harley Davidson ownership. I haven't been for a test ride yet so maybe I will be persuaded to look at something more sensible.

And therein lies the rub; buying a Harley Davidson is NOT a rational decision, its a decision made with the heart. When I first retired I got back into motorcycling by buying a Vespa 150 cc scooter (another purchase by the heart). I just have a yearning to own a Harley before I have to give up two wheeled travel.

Now back to "my" Harley; I want an 883 Sportster Superlow with forward pegs and a sprung seat. Just like this one:


I think some folk on this forum see me as a SilverWing "basher" but I love my SilverWing. However, I also think that there is always improvements in things as time goes on (especially motorbikes) and I think development is good. Change is good! See my post signature!

That's enough prattling on.

Regards,
Peter

Nothing wrong with enjoying a scooter and a motorcycle. I have both and like them both for their purpose. Yesterday the woman who hangs around here and I took a 200 mile through the mountains around here. The temperature ranged from 64F to 48F during the day with rain showers on and off. On that ride I was glad I was on the Goldwing with it's superior weather protection. Today I was running errands in town and went out to the club shooting range using the SW. I perferred it due to its easier handling in tight quarters and better fuel economy. I wouldn't go with a HD but that's just my prejudice from past years. If I were to go with a Cruiser type it'd be a Honda Shadow or VTX. I don't believe the Harley can come close to equalling Mother Honda's machinery for reliability and longevity.

Peter,

It isn't "irrational" at all to want the 883 Sportster. They really are nice bikes and the ones now are better than the one I had since they are 5 speeds and belt drive now. Get some highway pegs and backrest and some saddle bags and you are ready to go. I say you should try the 883 since you want one and they hold their re-sale really good so if you don't like it you should get most of your money back.

You might be happier with the 1200 Sporty. The 883 is really slow for its engine size.

Hey Peter, the States don't get the W800-at least, not yet...

If they ever do, I'll be all over it. That is one beautiful machine...and it's going to give Triumph a run for its money...

I'm with the others...Sportsters are, for me, too small and they have poor suspension systems which really need upgrading, but once the kinks are worked out, they are very good motorcycles which really get to the essence of motorcycling the way it used to be (like when I was a kid before the invention of dirt...). If a Sportster lights you up, go for it...

I'm sort of the same way with the V-Strom. Much as I like the idea of them and appreciate all the farkles you can put on them, getting a leg over is a pain, unless you do the horse mount/dismount (with bike on sidestand, put L foot on L peg, stand on peg, swing R foot over and put on R peg, then sit down). If you do that, BE CAREFUL to do so on a solid surface....it's easy to unbalance the machine and knock you and it a$$ over teacup...

I love my SWing, but still like other motorcycles as well. One does not preclude the appreciation of the other...

Guys,


After having had the accident and the TMAX totalled, I pondered whether to buy a new one, go with a small dual sport 250cc or less or an adventure touring bike. So I decided to go with a Suzuki DL650 V-Strom, I will not be commuting to work anymore, so there would be no need for the CVT.
I decided that the new bike for me had to have the ability to do light off highway. So I purchased a 2011 White V-strom with ABS, and I am not looking back. Although that Mid-Concept may wind up in my garage as well.
240 miles and counting. swing2010

bigbird wrote:

You might be happier with the 1200 Sporty. The 883 is really slow for its engine size.

I'm sure I would but I'm retired and can't afford a 1200 (well actually I would feel bad about spending the extra AUD4,000). If I had the money I'd be buying a V-rod
Those I've spoken to say the 883 is not too bad and I don't want to set any speed records.

Regards,
Peter

Jinglebob wrote:

Hey Peter, the States don't get the W800-at least, not yet...

If they ever do, I'll be all over it. That is one beautiful machine...and it's going to give Triumph a run for its money...

I'm with the others...Sportsters are, for me, too small and they have poor suspension systems which really need upgrading, but once the kinks are worked out, they are very good motorcycles which really get to the essence of motorcycling the way it used to be ...

Bob,

In Australia the W800 is about the same price as the Harley Sportster Superlow and the base Bonneville.

Its going to be a hard decision when I get around to it

Regards,
Peter

SWing2010 wrote:

... I purchased a 2011 White V-strom with ABS, and I am not looking back...

I have two mates with VStroms and have been away touring with one. He has Givi hard panniers and topbox; it makes a really good tourer. That said, it's only area of advantage over the SilverWing is when you leave the bitumen and get onto dirt roads. I find I can get close to 60 litres of luggage under the seat and so don't need panniers for the 4-5 day trips we do over here so luggage carrying capacity is similar.

As an aside: I quite like this open chat about other bikes, often these one-make forums get bogged down with fan-boy obsessions about that make

Regards,
Peter

Hmmm....W800 v Sportster? I'd go for the W800-however, I had a look at a very nice '06 1200 Sportster Roadster this morning...very nice shape, with windshield and locking bags...the Roadster's suspension is better than the Low's or the Custom's I think, and render it the most roadworthy for sizable gents like myself.

I could definitely go for a Roadster...nice machine.

Still want the W800 here, though...but we may not get it...naked bikes don't do very well here, for reasons which are beyond my understanding...

pja wrote:

As an aside: I quite like this open chat about other bikes, often these one-make forums get bogged down with fan-boy obsessions about that make

Only one of the many things that make this site the Best Silver Wing site in the web.

Not having the W800 here, my eye gets drawn to the Honda Shadow RS. It's got its down sides, but from an aesthetic standpoint, I think it is gorgeous. The shop where I got my Swing had one in the red,white and blue 2011 model and it made me do a double take. If it weren't for my commuting needs, I may have ended up with the RS instead.



Also, I'm not a Harley guy, but that XR1200x is a damn fine looking bike.

aidanpryde18 wrote:

Not having the W800 here, my eye gets drawn to the Honda Shadow RS...

I totally agree; this is a really good bike EXCEPT for the 10 litre fuel tank - that's a range of 150 - 180 km

In Australia we only get the dark grey and white colour schemes:



Even with the small tank its a nice looking bike.

Regards,
Peter