Product worth considering

Subject: Product worth considering Sun Oct 02, 2011 1:38 pm

Since many shops cannot balance (spin balance rear wheel) I have tried something that really seems to work. That is spin balance scooter rear wheel

I have balance stand, patience and do all of my own tire work on all bikes.

Ride On the product is called, about $15 a bottle------used as balance and sealant for tiny holes.

Works great to balance wheels in motion following their instruction. Recent tire change F & R on my NT-----removed factory weights from wheels, checked both for static balance minus tires-----not bad.

Mounted tires and wheels, went out and rode 10 miles or so----believe it or not wheels balanced!!...runs smooth. Now several thousand miles later, still smooth.

Sealant is secondary to me....yet to try on tack. But if tire can/will hold air to get home or place tire can be changed, good deal. Normally after puncture I remove tire and check for internal damage.....and replace tire in most cases.

This stuff is a bear to put in, messy. I found wheel up on bench worked best. I don't care about mess on rim when I take tire off again. Warm bottle first.

For me....this is something from the after market that works.

Subject: Re: Product worth considering Sun Oct 02, 2011 3:13 pm

Over here, Puncturesafe seems to be amongst the best tyre sealants and I suspect it does the balancing thing, too.
It's water-soluble so washes out of the tyre for permanent repairs and is definitely not messy when putting in the tyres.

Subject: Re: Product worth considering Wed Jan 25, 2012 5:27 pm

I have some questions about tire balancing AND the Ride-On product.
BALANCING - Most folks seem to have their tires balanced when new tires are put on and never rebalanced thereafter. So, here are my balancing questions:
a) Do tires need to be periodically rebalanced? If so, why? When?
b) Can one tell by the ride if SWing tires need to be balanced? Or if they are properly balanced? If so, how do you do this? Can one differentiate between the front and the rear by the feel of the ride?
d) Should you balance the wheel without the tire and then add the tire and balance the combination? If not, why not?
e) Can you tell by looking at the tire wear if the balance is correct? If so, how so? How many miles do you have to put on the tire to start seeing improper wear? Can you spin the tire while on the SWing and tell if balance is correct?
Ride-On Questions:
1) Who, other than John Grinsel, has tried Ride-On? What are your thoughts on Ride-On if you have tried it?
2) If using Ride-On should you balance the wheel (without tire) before you add and then add tire, then add Ride-On?

Other Items of Note:
You can google Ride-On and see youtube videos, numerous reviews - mostly good, with some questioning the product (but not many). Has anyone tried Dyna Beads for tire balancing? Comments if you have? Any other balancing thoughts that you may have are welcomed. Ride Safe.

Subject: Re: Product worth considering Wed Jan 25, 2012 5:49 pm

Dimond, link to Dyna Beads we had on here some while ago.

https://www.silverwing600.com/t1502-disappointed-in-dyna-beads?highlight=dyna+beads

Subject: Re: Product worth considering Wed Jan 25, 2012 6:46 pm

Subject: Product worth considering Wed Jan 25, 2012 8:06 pm

I may be able to shed some light on wheel balancing, since my dad was in that business for 40 years and I worked with him a lot. He balanced race car tires also. Here was his take on it:
A better balance job can be done if you run the tire on the vehicle for 50 to 100 miles, as this allows the tire (and tube if not tubeless) to seat completely to the rim so there is no shift of tire weight after the ballance job and thus there will be no need to rebalance.
There are two types of wheel balancing, static and dynamic. Bubble balancers and "heavy spot" balancers (like my cycle dealer has) are static balancers. A weight is added opposite the heavy spot to counteract it. This is usually sufficient for speeds below 70 mph. A dynamic balancer has two types. The most common, like most automotive tire shops use, spins the tire & rim at slow speed and an onboard computer calculates the location and weight of the corrective weights needed. The second is the high speed dynamic balancer, and they are few and far between. This used to be the preferred way to balance race car tires. First, you static balance the tire on the balancer, and then speed it up. The one I have spins the tires at 140 mph. A spark gap in a calibrated display disk, shows where the weights are need, but how much weight is experience or experimentation. This type balancer spins the tire so fast that the rubber under tremendous force comes to rest within the tire structure, so that the resonance point is found and counteracted. Race car and large tires benefit from this type of balance, but I would guess it is negligible on motorcycle tires.
You never balance just the tire, there’s no way to do it and the correcting weights attach to the rim, not the tire.
A tire normally doesn't need to be balanced again unless it slings off a wheel weight.
Unless a tire is extremely out of balance, it takes many miles to show damage and if it’s that bad, it will shake your teeth out.
Although I can't check the front tire balance on my Silverwing, the rear is easy. I just put it on the center stand pointed down the road, sit on it, start it up, hold the front break, then I spin it up and watch the speedometer to about 70 mph. If the tire is out of balance, shake will be noticeable. Hope this helps.

Subject: Re: Product worth considering Wed Jan 25, 2012 8:24 pm

LarryB, Love the tip about checking the rear tire balance on the center stand at 70 mph - how cool is that! Plus this would likely check for any other rotating imbalance such as wheel alignment, bearings, etc. - which is nice. I am going to try this: 1) before change my next rear tire, and 2) after I install the tire and run it for 100 miles (assuming I do this step - but likely will not as it seem now as if it is too much effort for me), and 3) after the tire is balanced (via static balance method OR Ride-ON). I am GUESSING that I would feel the front tire imbalance (if significant) through the handlebars at high speed on a very smooth road - especially if I knew that the rear wheel assembly was in balance. Thanks for the reply.

Subject: Product worth considering Wed Jan 25, 2012 9:55 pm

Dimond
I do this on all my bikes even if I have to use cinder blocks to raise the rear end. But I'm not telling you or anyone else to do it, so do it at your own risk. If you came off that center stand at full speed, life would get exciting fast. You would be the next shooting star. That's why I point the bike down hill on a road. Don't point the bike up-hill or you might do the worlds fastest wheelie.

Here's another tip:
You can tell if that rear tire needs a static or dynamic balance. Static balance problems usually get worse gradually if you go from slow to fast. Dynamic balance problems usually have certain speeds that shake. This is caused by one side of the tire being a little heaver that the other. Static balance won't cure that. Example, I have had tires that shimmied only at 50-55 mph and at that speed tire shimmy agrivates the fool out of me.

Here is a cheap static balancer which works just fine:

http://www.harborfreight.com/motorcycle-wheel-balancing-stand-98488.html
Fifty bucks. It doesn't take long to pay for itself. Don't forget to order an assortment of weights.

Also, while the bike is on the stand and not running, place a wood block or other reference close to the tire and turn the tire by hand to check for a tire out of round. I've heard of people using a hand belt sander to true a tire, but I've never done it. I saw a post somewhere of someone who used it to cure a cupped tire.

Always remember to keep tires inflated to the proper pressure. A low tire can fee like a balance problem. Good Luck

Subject: Re: Product worth considering Wed Jan 25, 2012 11:59 pm

To All...
I once worked in a service station back in 1960 or so. The owner balanced tires on cars by putting the car on the 'rack', lifting it just enough to get the tires off the floor. Then a bracket was affixed to the rim of whatever tire with a 'balancing' knob, or knobs located in the center of the bracket.

Then a machine was pushed up to the tire and a lever pushed down which increased the speed of a friction roller that touched the tire and then spun it up to speed. If any vibration was noticed (whether by visual or 'feeling' the cars metal shake) the center knob(s) could be adjusted to counter the vibration until it smoothed out. Once that was done, there was an indication (somewhere) as to where and how much weight was needed for correction.

Did you guys ever see these?? And are they still in use anywhere??

Just curious... sorry if I hijacked.

Subject: Re: Product worth considering Thu Jan 26, 2012 1:06 am

Yes I have used this type of balance devise some years ago.It worked well and would balance the tire and brake drum or rooter as well.We would balance both the front and wheels the same way. If you had your tires rotated you technically would have to balance them again.
I believe one reason we do not have a great deal of balance problems on the Silvewing is due to the tire size.Given another inch or two of diameter and some more width and it could be a different story.

Subject: Product worth considering Thu Jan 26, 2012 7:47 am

I forgot about those "On The Car" balancers, I guess because I never used one. I haven't seen one in many years. When I was a teen-ager I worked at a service station that had one, but only one man used it. That balancer was scary to watch. What if that mechanism that attatched to to the rim came loose at high speed? That actually did happen here in my home town. The mechanic spent some time in the hospital.

That sure brings back memories. I use to ride my Cushman motor scooter to work and to school.

I think you are right about motorcycle tires. The size makes balance less of a problem.

Subject: Re: Product worth considering Thu Jan 26, 2012 8:27 am

RE: Ride On

2 years ago I purchased a 2004 silverwing that the previous owner had mounted a darkside tire and had used Ride On. I felt uncomfortable with the way the bike handled with that tire so I had it removed. When the mechanic removed the tire the rim was all rusted on the inside. He stated (without me telling him) that Ride On caused that. He said that the product works but that it`s very corrosive.

Take this for what it`s worth.

Subject: Re: Product worth considering Thu Jan 26, 2012 8:48 pm

Spot on Timewarp, spot on! I've destroyed a rim on my MuZ with tyre gunk and the stuff just loves to eat alloy rims. I now have to run this wheel with a tube.

Subject: Re: Product worth considering Fri Jan 27, 2012 1:08 am

Sorry, but I find that hard to believe...

I've used Slime in my rear wheel before and left it in there for @14,000 miles and a year in time. When the tire was changed out, I asked to be there to watch. I wanted to see all the gunk flying out everywhere and the corrosion on the rim for myself.

There was no Slime getting all over everything. It had become a tacky substance on the tread portion on the inside. It probably skinned over, because when I got a nail about 4000 miles earlier, the Slime filled the hole and sealed it.

As for corrosion, there was none. Ride-On is supposed to be even better about not causing corrosion than the Slime I was using. I don't doubt the corrosion at all, but I think the corrosion probably came from another source.

Chris

Subject: Re: Product worth considering Fri Jan 27, 2012 1:33 am

Daboo wrote:: Sorry, but I find that hard to believe...

https://www.silverwing600.com/t1988-searching-the-site-for-info#30764

It could have been the alloy that does react to Slime.

Subject: Re: Product worth considering Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:51 pm

I understand what you're referring to, Bill. What I saw in the post was the mechanic was blaming Ride-On (not Slime) for the corrosion. The two products are of different composition, even though they seem to work the same. Here's what it says at the Ride-On website.

Quote :: Ride-On is a Green biodegradable product that is designed to be non-hazardous and non-flammable, and contains corrosion inhibitors that protect all alloys of steel,TPMS aluminum, magnesium, and yellow metals against oxidation. Ride-On is Tire Pressure Monitor (TPMS) friendly, ... Although some of our competitors’ products have been documented to cause corrosion, Ride-On enjoys a reputation for being completely compatible with all types of wheels and tires. Ride-On is currently sold by some of the nation’s largest commercial tire dealers who install product into tens of thousands of fleet tires. These commercial customers demand that our products not damage their aluminum, steel wheels, or tires. As their tires can last upwards of 250,000 miles, it is essential that Ride-On not harm tire ply materials or cause loss of adhesion strength.

And of course you can always use Ride-On (or Slime) as a roadside repair to get you on your way and then pull the tire when you get home to patch it.

Chris

Subject: Re: Product worth considering Fri Jan 27, 2012 1:24 pm

Daboo wrote:: What I saw in the post was the mechanic was blaming Ride-On (not Slime) for the corrosion. The two products are of different composition, even though they seem to work the same.

Ride-On does not appear to have the same "limitations" as Slime.

Daboo wrote:: These commercial customers demand that our products not damage their aluminum, steel wheels, or tires. As their tires can last upwards of 250,000 miles, it is essential that Ride-On not harm tire ply materials or cause loss of adhesion strength.

It is funny they mention this ... I believe that Slime damaged both my John Deere front tires with the "loss of adhesion strength". The inside of the tires is not longer "smooth" but all the strands are loose from the side wall.

I purchased inner tubes and put UltraSeal inside the inner tube to extend the life of the current tires.

Subject: Re: Product worth considering Fri Jan 27, 2012 2:00 pm

I am a big fan of UltraSeal or PunctureSafe as it is now called. It doesn't have any adverse effect upon wheels. It actually states somewhere in its literature something regards the corrosion negating properties.

Slime and any of the lesser branded products are not for me.

Old saying - you pay for what you get. Pay cheap - get cheap.

Subject: Re: Product worth considering Fri Jan 27, 2012 2:27 pm

I only used a similar product once called "punctureseal", never again! I lost pressure in my tyre every week. every time i checked the tyre pressure i got the stuff coming out of the valve. It was supposed to seal the tyre from future punctures. Sad

Subject: Re: Product worth considering Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:46 pm

I've actually had both good and bad results from Slime. Never tried Ride-On, though I hear it is better.

On my 2007 B400, I got a small cotter pin in the rear tire just a few weeks after paying about $120 for replacing the tire. I had some Slime on the shelf, so decided to try it. It bothered my cheap soul to change the tire so soon, especially as the leak was very very slow. It also bothered me...perhaps more...to bring it up to my wife that this low-cost form of transportation was going to cost another new tire for a leak this small. Long story short, it worked like a charm and continued to work through 2 additional punctures. When I changed the tire with @ 14,500 miles, there was no mess and no corrosion...and no loss of air. I was a happy camper.

When it didn't work, was when I picked up a roofing nail on the freeway. It seemed like the nail went in and back out...and the air and Slime went out as well...at 60 mph. It wasn't a comfortable feeling to have a flat rear tire at 60 mph and be in the far left lane in rush hour traffic. I believe I have a guardian angel, especially after this, because I made it across all 5 lanes to the freeway off-ramp without anyone hitting me and without the tire pulling off the rim.

I still believe in Slime as a repair on the road. Without the Slime, the air still would've come out just as fast. In this case, the tire was spinning so fast that the Slime never got a chance to really work. I've had a nail that size in the rear tire on the first bike, and it fixed the leak. But then I was in the garage and simply turned the wheel to put the puncture at the bottom to give the Slime a chance to work. A couple tablespoons full of light green liquid came out on the ground and the air quit leaking.

Chris

Subject: Re: Product worth considering Fri Jan 27, 2012 5:20 pm

Slime, UltraSeal/PunctureSafe, whichever you use are not and never have been a puncture repair product after the event..

They repair a puncture by filling any hole that occurs with small vulcanised slivers of rubber suspended in a semi liquid solution. Even then there is a finite limit to the size of hole they will repair. For example, PunctureSafe says it will plug a hole up to 6 mm or less.

http://www.ultraseal.biz/home1.htm#currentPageTarget

Read for your self what they say.

Subject: Re: Product worth considering Fri Jan 27, 2012 6:27 pm

I've got PunctureSafe in my tyres and a Stop & Go tyre plugger kit stowed under the seat. Some years ago I watched the rear tyre being changed on my 400 Burgman that had been treated with UltraSeal as PunctureSafe was known as back then. The mechanic/tyre fitter had to wipe the blue gunk off the inside of the wheel with paper towel, and there was no corrosion.

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