155 70 13 Hercules Raptis TR1

Just finish installing a Dark Side tire. a 155 70 13 Hercules Raptis TR1.I believe that it is the first DS tire of that size to be install on a Swing.It was very easy to install and took less psi to seat the bead. 2 oz Counteract bead were was all it took to balance.So far I spun the tire on the centre stand,with no vibration. I am going for a 100 KL run In one hour and will give a better report later.

Tinman, I just put the same Raptis on my Swing. I hope I won't suffer the same significant understeer on sharp turns as I did with the taller Sumitomo I used to have. I owned a Burgman 650 for a few days with a Darkside tire on the back and actually never even realized it until later because it handled so well. I'm hoping my experience with the Raptis will be similar.

Are you still running the Raptis and how's your experience been so far?

I have 11k kl on mine and because it is the same size and dia . as my IRC tire , I found no difference in the way it handle in the corners.Try 38 lbs psi and work your way down to where It rides the best for you . I don't ride like Evil keneval ,and not like Awfull kenawful. I have no regrets.

tinman wrote:

I don't ride like Evil keneval ,and not like Awfull kenawful.

That's one of the funniest things I've read!

When I had my Sumitomo, I had a lot of trouble on switchbacks and right hand turns due to the understeer, which is why your post intrigued me. What tire are you using up front? I've got a Metzler FeelFree...

I have the original IRC with 32kkl. I can get some under steer until I started to apply a light pressure on the left or right hand grip . But It was no worse then My IRC rear and It only happen when your eyes don't follow the farthest line of site.The Swing has a very quick response.Much quicker then street cruisers.

tinman wrote:

I have 11k kl on mine and because it is the same size and dia as my IRC tire , I found no difference in the way it handle in the corners.

At 11k km (~7k miles) is there any wear showing on the Raptis? Given that the Raptis is the same size & diameter as an OEM tire do you see an advantage of switching to this tire over an OEM tire. Or for that matter, switching to the Raptis vs a Sumitomo?

FWIW I got close to 40K miles on my last Sumitomo, but had to switch back to an OEM tire when my, otherwise dependable, tire guy managed to destroy two Sumitomo's in one week trying to replace the one he'd originally installed for me a couple of years ago.

Tim

I put about 80 miles on today just going slow and conservative around corners and curves. Did a mix of twisties and turnpike. No slippage but I wasn't really pushing it at all. Definitely didn't have the understeer that I felt with the Sumitomo.

At 11k kl I find no ware that I can see . Its a 40k miles Tire .Other then getting 60k kl out of it ,and better handling in the rain , cool running in hot whether,better handling on gravel roads.Can go 2 or 3 years before replacing ,1/2 the price of a MC tire . For the like's of me, I cant see any advantage at all. I cant comment on the Sumitomo,don't no nothing except what others have commented on .There are many 155 70 13 tires for you to chose from,Achill Platnum , for One of many in the US. the Hercules Raptis was very easy to install.

Any slippage with leaning over? I didn't push it today, still kinda tentative after my dump on the ice 3 weeks ago.

I have done aggressive switch backs and sharp radius curves and have leaned like I was on a crotch rocket to the limit that the Swing can handle with a smile on my face,to the point of adrenaline rush.But that is not my normal riding.You ride in your comfort zone, you will throw caution to the wind soon enough.I wore the mol of the tire the first time I went for a ride.

I'm not that aggressive a rider, at least, not anymore I don't think. Come to think of it, I probably never was. But it's good to know that you've been able to handle switchbacks aggressively and not experienced slippage. So far the only time I felt I was on a darkside tire was when I followed a seam in the road, otherwise it felt like the bike tire, maybe even more responsive.

Your confidence will get better each time that you go for a ride .In one season 5 motorcycle riders switch to CT at my coffee shop,and they have no regrets.

I did alright with my Sumitomo when I had it, but it was a nightmare on switchbacks and sharp turns, probably cos I don't lean very much at all (even with a bike tire on). I'll be riding down to Jacksonville on March 12th to the IBA party and will be putting 2800 miles on that roundtrip; I'm sure by the time I'm done, I'll be a bit more cognizant of the Raptis' handling characteristics.

How much psi did you start with.You will have time to give a good or bad review by the time your trip is over.Im sure you will love it.

38psi rear, 36psi front. I carry a lot of gear and I'm pretty heavy to boot. My rear shocks are set at max. Any suggestions?

You will be fin.With that pressure look at the profile of the tire at ground level, your contact patch is about 1 5/8" at the Centre ,It give a rounder profile .You won't see the Swing trying to right it's self all the time.

I did notice that the bike didn't try to right itself like when I was running a Sumitomo.

Sound's to me you are liking it already. I am running 33 psi on the front.

I now have 35k kl on my hercules raptic ct ,about have life left and good for another full season with my Trigg trike.I would have replace MC tire 3 times to  my 155 70 13 CT.I have converted more then a dozen friends to the dark side the force is with us.  :lol!:

Well, I decided to give this a try. Here's the story: Much to my surprise, one of the riders on the Rockin' The Rockies Tour showed up with a car tire. Honestly, if this had happened last year I would have disqualified the scooter not allowing the rider on the tour. But this was a second year rider, a good rider, and since I had been doing considerable reading up on the subject, I was intrigued. Besides, this was at the end of Day 1 when I noticed -- we had already done the Peak to Peak highway and Trail Ridge Road. I had not seen this rider struggling. We discussed the subject, a bit, over dinner and I made a point of closely observing the scooter's handling and his riding.

Understand that this tour has more curves then a 'Las Vegas Marilyn Monroe impersonator convention'. These are technical roads and make it easy to separate the good riders from the poor. My observations were that the scooter was able to handle with the best of this group and could scrape parts before losing traction. I was amazed. We also met 3 Gold Wingers at a mountain view pullout, one of which was DarkSiding with no regrets.

Though I had already come to the realization that DarkSide tire use does actually work (a year ago I considered it insane and stupid) I was not convinced it was for me. In great part because of the mounting issues, and height difference, of the Sumitomo many are using. I had no desire to change the steering geometry with a taller tire or risk tearing a bead or sidewall with a too tight tire.

So Tinman's postings of the Hercules Raptis grabbed my interest due to it's diameter being similar to a stock tire, reported ease in mounting and more rounded profile. Though my stock rear tire is not nearly worn out, the tread siping has started to raise on the forward edge -- an aspect I had observed on Hoops before.

My new Raptis arrived yesterday from tires-easy.com. Cost was about $43 with shipping. Plans are to mount it in about 2 weeks. My riding buddy has a tire mounting rig and balance stand, so tire shop issues will not be involved. My stock tire will be saved in case I were to sell the S'Wing, as I would never pass it on with a DS tire installed (potential liability issues).

I hope to be pleased with the tire and it's handling. Most of my riding is on technical mountain roads and I am not a conservative rider. I rarely run errands, as I ride in full gear, and do very little commuting due to the nature of my primary job. The Hoops are not the best mountain tires (they came on the scoot) so the comparison would not be against a top line tire like Diablo or Feel Free.

Wish me luck -- I'll let you all know how it works out.

I look forward to hearing the opinion of someone who considered it insane and stupid after you put some miles on it.

Expect it to be a while, but I certainly will provide my observations. This is such a sticky subject (pun intended) I would certainly shy away from recommending a CT. Spring 2013 I was at an event and spied a Burg 650 with a CT installed. I was appalled and it is likely good the rider was nowhere near as a heated argument may have ensued. But now, after much studying of the subject, learning of  why, and how it works, I consider it intriguing and am offering myself as a subject for study (a very large guinea pig, so to speak).
 

Hey all:

Bought my '02 in '10...it had 5,600 miles on it, with the original rubber on it. Among other things, I installed  the Sumitomo 165/70R13 upon its arrival. Yes, it gives ya lotsa understeer, but it also gives ya LOTS OF TREAD LIFE. Like everyone else whose done darksided their bikes, THAT was my primary consideration in rear tires. I was doing 9k/yr, and was going through rubber like a sailor! Have NEVER looked back, and now that I have 25k on the Sumitomo, the "corners" are more worn than the center tread area, and I want to replace it. Plus, the rear brake pads are in need of replacement, and wanted to do THE WHOLE ENCHILADA at once.

I shopped for the Sumitomo & see that it's no longer available, apparently. So after arriving here, see that others are going with the Hercules Raptis. I will buy this tire on-line today, thanks to all who've come before me, & posted about it here.

I use the Harbor Freight tire mounting gizmo, with the m/c attachment, to install my rubber. That Sumitomo was THE HARDEST TIRE to get on a rim!! I read how Cosmic Tim's mechanic destroyed 2 of them while trying to mount that tire, and can attest that the task was definitely pushing the laws of physics! Getting that Sumitomo on the rim took EVERYTHING I had...even then, I wasn't able to seat the bead at home. I had to have the Pep Boys guy do it. Best $20 I spent! I was SERIOUSLY tempted to buy the CHEETAH bead seater, but decided that at middle age, I don't need MORE STUFF!

So my question is...how much easier is the Raptis to mount & seat than the Sumitomo? And, how many folks here have switched from the Sumitomo to the Hercules Raptis?

Thanks in advance!

My hercules raptis tr1 was a easy fit .38 k kl and good for 20 k kl before replacing maybe more . It was installed by a car tire shop and the bead  popped  right in.

Thanks for the feedback Tinman.

The Raptis arrives Saturday ($45 delivered), but I'm not sure when I'll get to the tire swap. The ease of fitment was my primary concern, after the Sumitomo rassling match, lol. After that ordeal, I bought a No-Mar tire tool, & their Yellow thing  ( http://www.nomartirechanger.com/product_p/tc-mdbar-std.htm & http://www.nomartirechanger.com/product_p/ac-yellowthing.htm). I haven't used them yet, so we'll see if they were worth the price of admission.

When I made this post, I didn't intend this to be separate from your identically named post. I clicked on the wrong button in error (NEW TOPIC vs POST REPLY). If the moderator wishes to combine the two posts, please do! It looks kind of silly having 2 identical topics in a row!       

Mea Culpa.

bubblepuppy wrote:

If the moderator wishes to combine the two posts, please do! It looks kind of silly having 2 identical topics in a row!

Done.

after doing a tire inspection on a rainy day ,i notice that my Raptis TR1 had worn down on the right side of the tire . ( not the tire's fault ) been have to much fun doing left hand power turns leaving and burning rubber and squealing the tire . Now I am at the ware bar on the right side,so I ordered a new hercules raptis tire .I am at 40 k kl,and 30 k kl with my Trigg trike kit so I cant complain to much .If I stop being a cowboy I can get 10 k kl out of it. Will replace the tire when I do my oil change at around at 45k kl. 

Installing mine tomorrow.

Well our Darkside tire mounting party took up much of the day. There were 3 of us there mounting 2 tires. First was a Piaggio BV350. The tire is the same as many darkside Burg650 riders use. The owner is  2 year veteran of Rockin' the Rockies and is likely the first to go DS on this particular scooter. We had use of 2 bead breakers, a floor mount mechanical tire mounting rig, some speciality motorcycle tires mounting tools and tire irons. 2 of us have considerable tire mounting experience.

The worn out Michelin was easily shucked from the BV350 rim. Then the process of mounting the Federal tire started. With tons of lube, lots of cursing, some nicks on the rim and multiple tries, the tire did mount. Seating took about 70psi. Though close to the inner fender, there was adequate clearance.

Then came my Silver Wing rim. The current Bridgestone Hoop was at about 50%, so I planned to save it. The Hercules Raptis was a much more pliable tire than the Federal and we expected a much easier job. Not so. It took many, many tries to get the first bead over the rim. Then in mounting the second bead it took a good sized rip (from the rim edge, not a tire tool) then another small one and as the bead was nearly on, I decided to back out.

The bead was so tight we used a sawsall to cut the bead wire and remove the tire. The Hoop went back on (with no issues) and the car tire went in the recycle bin.

After reassembly of both scooters we all headed out for a late lunch. The BV rider really liked the new tire, it's ride, responsiveness and grip. He is sold at this point. As he commutes daily it will last him about 2 years, opposed to 6-8 months.

Here are my observations of darkside tires as related to me (no one else). As the tire inside diameter is slightly smaller than the rim, fit is too tight and the risk of damage to the rim or tire is too great for my comfort level. I believe the handling is workable and might even be better than a scooter tire in some cases. Yes, I understand I could have gone to a mom/pop tire store with a pneumatic tire mounter and the tire may have been mounted without damage. The issue is the tire's bead seat diameter is smaller than the scooter tire's and if it does not mount as easily as a standard tire, the difference is too much -- at this point, it is not for me.

If I did commute daily, and went through a couple tires a year, this would be a much more viable option. HOWEVER, in that case I would buy another rim and have a metal shop lathe down the outer rim edge, and inner bead seat diameter, to match the diameters of the rim that the car tire is meant to mount upon. I have heard some of the motorcycle darksiders doing this. As long as the material amount removed is not so much to compromise the rim integrity, it makes sense to me. So then I would have a standard rim and a darkside-only rim.

I am not knocking those that are fine with the mounting and use of car tires on motorcycle/scooter rims. I have become a believer due to the masses of successful users. But for me, at current circumstances, I will stick to a scooter tire and likely mount a Pirelli next time round.

I consider it a $40 lesson (probably one of my cheapest).
 

Well it looks like there were at least 2 of us doing the Hercules thing today! And I will say, that tire took Herculean effort to mount, too. The Sumitomo fought me HARD on the removal end, so I threw in the towel, & used a Porta-band saw to cut it off. Figured there was no need to keep it intact, so out came the saw.

The Herc was almost as difficult to mount as the Sumitomo. So much so, that I do not think I'd ever do the job again, at least with my current setup. The beads both made sounds that they probably shouldn't have while I fought it, but the tire IS ON the rim. I had to use THREE tire irons, all at once. Seating the bead took all of 30 seconds, @ 40 PSI.

As an added bonus, I still have all ten of my fingers, and both eyes!    

I decided to set the wheel aside for the day to make sure it holds the air. Tomorrow, if it still has the 40 PSI, I will re-install the wheel, and drop the pressure a tad.

The rim itself took quite a beating. MANY scratches, scuffs & 1 small chip, towards the outside where rubber does not contact it. If this were a PAID task, the person paying for the job would NOT have been happy, lol. Seeing that I have a 12 year old bike with 30,000 miles on it, and it having been laid down by a 16 year old cager several years ago, looks are no longer important to me. As long as I "get there", I am happy.

If anyone here mounts their own car tires, and has found the perfect setup to do so, I am all ears! The Harbor Freight gizmo is barely up to this task.

Thanks for relating your story BJ, your experience validated my struggle with this tire. And I KNOW what you went through too.

Oh...the tire I received (today) was from Onlinetires.com. I was not impressed that it had a date code of 4610. This tire was almost FOUR YEARS OLD by the time I got it. Anyone else buying from them, be forewarned!

I wonder if you could find out the age of a tire before paying your money?

Sorry to here of all the difficulty in mounting the tire on your own .Mine was installed by my tire guy with proper motorize tire changer and it took him all of 5 minutes and popped the bead with 50 lbs of pressure. Going on 3 years now and40 k kl on it .I ordered a new Raptis and will get it installed some time this summer ore at years end. My friend installed A potenza on his Burgman and it took 30 minutes with 90 lbs pressure and sat in the sun for the bead to set. My tire guy has installed many on different motorcycles with no difficulties.

Thanks, and yes, I do understand a tire shop could have mounted the tire (maybe easily). For me it is not the matter of will it fit, but does it fit properly. The diameters are very close, and on some motorcycles/scooters the diameters may be the exact same. In my case, the difference is too great for me to utilize.

Aren't trike wheels different than Silverwheel wheels? If so then mounting ease as well as any reported (handling) advantages of Darkside tires as experienced on a trike wouldn't apply to Silverwing.

Tim

The first 11 k kl DS experience was on two wheels ,I have 30 k kl with my trike kit installed. Had I had trike my swing with a MC tire ,I would have replace  the rear tire 3 times by now . IMO the advantage is clear . My experience riding on two wheel's with my Raptis  DS tire was very positive.