| Happened again! | |
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+20joncallihan Atrick tarmacburner2 exavid john grinsel Ishkatan KurtPerthWA SonnyO CathyN surlybiker58 tinman DickO RArch Nowun Winger61 rodenbach robert Meldrew paul.delo451 Waspie 24 posters |
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Waspie Silver Wing Guru
Number of posts : 2392 Age : 72 Location : Portland, UK Points : 8143 Registration date : 2009-07-26
| Subject: Happened again! Tue Nov 06, 2012 9:20 am | |
| A big thank you to all at work who helped me this morning. My heavy Silver Wing fell on my left foot and induced severe pain. Trish, Mo and Ian instantly leapt to my aid, looking after me and getting an ambulance. Thanks to the ambulance crew too for their part. It was the classic parking on uneven ground. Put left foot down but the ground wasn't exactly were I would have liked it to be! Weight of bike took charge and over it went and landed on my left foot! No broken bones only a very painful Achilles Tendon, massive swelling and superb multi coloured bruising. (Not as bad as the embarrassment I felt for allowing it to happen. Thanks again to all my work mates who helped and sent messages, it's nice to know people care. I now settle down to an embarrassed life of feet up and loads of tea! Just waiting for the bike to be taken away and have the damage assessed, all the left hand panels require replacing, (about £1k of damage). |
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paul.delo451 Scooter Rider
Number of posts : 49 Age : 63 Location : Coventry UK Points : 4484 Registration date : 2012-09-30
| Subject: Re: Happened again! Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:43 am | |
| Well I'm glad you are not too badly damaged Doug, that's the main thing, but is it really that much damage to the SW? Its a frightening thought to think that if mine went over that's the sort of damage to expect.
I must point out that I have done this on at least 3 tall bikes I have owned and that's why I have now targeted bikes and scooters where I can get my foot down more securely.
Take it easy. |
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Waspie Silver Wing Guru
Number of posts : 2392 Age : 72 Location : Portland, UK Points : 8143 Registration date : 2009-07-26
| Subject: Re: Happened again! Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:54 am | |
| - paul.delo451 wrote:
- Well I'm glad you are not too badly damaged Doug, that's the main thing, but is it really that much damage to the SW? Its a frightening thought to think that if mine went over that's the sort of damage to expect.
Take it easy. I used the link supplied on a thread on here to 'Lings'. The front panel, £480, lower panel, £85 Rear panel, (around the luggage space) £130 Rear light cluster is broken, chipped, Passenger hand grip/rear wing also chipped! It all mounts up. So I guess the moral is; Don't drop your Wing!!!!!!! I'm fully comp, so paying the excess is cheaper than sourcing the parts on ebay! |
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Meldrew Visiting Curmudgeon
Number of posts : 4218 Location : York, North Yorkshire, England UK Points : 9441 Registration date : 2010-11-16
| Subject: Re: Happened again! Tue Nov 06, 2012 12:01 pm | |
| Sorry to hear about your mishap, hope you and the scooter mend soon.
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robert Super Scooter Rider
Number of posts : 267 Age : 81 Location : arizona Points : 5458 Registration date : 2010-09-19
| Subject: Re: Happened again! Tue Nov 06, 2012 12:17 pm | |
| Glad it was'nt worse, you and your bike get healed-up so you can get out and enjoy riding your scoot. I'm also laid-up, had eye surgery last Wed., have'nt ridden my scoot in a week, itching to get out and enjoy this nice weather we're having. Take care. |
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Waspie Silver Wing Guru
Number of posts : 2392 Age : 72 Location : Portland, UK Points : 8143 Registration date : 2009-07-26
| Subject: Re: Happened again! Tue Nov 06, 2012 1:28 pm | |
| Garage called - confirmed nigh on £1,000 worth of damage. And I was stationary!!!!!!!
Just glad I wasn't moving! |
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rodenbach Touring Scooter Rider
Number of posts : 321 Age : 68 Location : Belgium Points : 4847 Registration date : 2012-08-30
| Subject: Re: Happened again! Tue Nov 06, 2012 1:46 pm | |
| hello Doug,
hope you and your foot get well soon.
Paul |
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Winger61 Silver Wing Rider
Number of posts : 452 Age : 75 Location : Louth, Lincolnshire, UK Points : 5629 Registration date : 2010-10-15
| Subject: Re: Happened again! Tue Nov 06, 2012 3:05 pm | |
| Get well soon Doug. Just think, all those years 'up there' as a 'pinger', perfectly safe and sound. Just goes to prove, terra firma is dangerous stuff!! |
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Nowun Super Scooter Rider
Number of posts : 288 Age : 71 Location : Hampshire, England Points : 4714 Registration date : 2012-10-13
| Subject: Re: Happened again! Tue Nov 06, 2012 4:08 pm | |
| Hope you get fixed soon - don't leave it too long before getting your leg over again ... |
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RArch Silver Wing Expert
Number of posts : 613 Age : 57 Location : West London, UK Points : 5409 Registration date : 2011-11-07
| Subject: Re: Happened again! Tue Nov 06, 2012 4:26 pm | |
| Sorry to hear, hope you get well soon.
Maybe you could source some of the parts of ebay and save some cash... |
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Waspie Silver Wing Guru
Number of posts : 2392 Age : 72 Location : Portland, UK Points : 8143 Registration date : 2009-07-26
| Subject: Re: Happened again! Tue Nov 06, 2012 4:45 pm | |
| - Nowun wrote:
- Hope you get fixed soon - don't leave it too long before getting your leg over again ...
I'm now bikeless like you! Winger it just goes to proving pinging is perfectly safe!!!!!! Never injured myself searching for submarines!!!!! |
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Waspie Silver Wing Guru
Number of posts : 2392 Age : 72 Location : Portland, UK Points : 8143 Registration date : 2009-07-26
| Subject: Re: Happened again! Tue Nov 06, 2012 4:47 pm | |
| - RArch wrote:
- Sorry to hear, hope you get well soon.
Maybe you could source some of the parts of ebay and save some cash... All I have to pay is the £200 excess I have with my insrance policy. It's a no-brainer. |
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DickO Founding Member
Number of posts : 1020 Age : 79 Location : Atchison, KS Points : 6959 Registration date : 2008-12-23
| Subject: Re: Happened again! Tue Nov 06, 2012 5:25 pm | |
| Good Luck Doug! Hang in there and get well soon; and get back to Wing'n soon too.! |
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tinman Silver Wing Guru
Number of posts : 1298 Age : 76 Location : Matheson, Ontario, Canada Points : 6125 Registration date : 2011-11-29
| Subject: Re: Happened again! Tue Nov 06, 2012 5:32 pm | |
| That is a lot of damage for being at a stop position,hope your foot is OK. I also drop my beloved Swing. Not 1, 2, 3,but 4 times.The first time was going to register , slip of the seat when brakes lock up.Was able to let go down slowly.Second time Swing on side stand sitting having a coffee at Tim Hortons with left foot on passenger peg, pants leg hooked the peg and a** push it over. Held it slowly till running board touch pavement. Third time with my pillion uneven ground ,and held it slowly and touch the running board . Then one more time by my self same day.the day before I did my yearly tread mile test and with 2 knee replacement my leg felt like rubber.All the damage was tiny Paint chips and a scratch on my UK wind knee deflector.I have been lucky so far but will be getting a Voyager or Trigg Trike kit by spring time when I ride with my Pillion. |
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surlybiker58 Touring Scooter Rider
Number of posts : 350 Location : Elkton , Maryland Points : 5096 Registration date : 2011-12-11
| Subject: Re: Happened again! Tue Nov 06, 2012 6:42 pm | |
| Sorry to hear about your mishap , but at least you're not seriously hurt and you have insurance for the damage.
With all the leaves on the ground now , I worry about slipping myself when backing my Silverwing out the garage.
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CathyN Silver Wing Expert
Number of posts : 771 Location : USA Points : 6039 Registration date : 2010-11-15
| Subject: Re: Happened again! Tue Nov 06, 2012 6:48 pm | |
| Doug, sorry to here of your mishap, hope you mend quickly.
My swing has gone over 5 times. The first time, by the previous owner. Left side scratches. The second time, with me pulling into a driveway very slowly. Thought I was going to hit Bob and panicked. Went down very slowly again on left side. More scratches. No injuries just felt stupid. I was pretty new at riding. The third time I was in parked in a gas station. I got on the bike and it came down on the left side again. I was able to scramble out from under it but I came down pretty hard. I had bruised ribs and a sore wrist for about a week or longer. Broke part of the wind screen and more scratches, some broken tabs. This because I was parked on uneven ground.
The fourth time was this past summer when I was riding it up a truck ramp. To bring it home from Knoxville, TN. Bob's bike had a mechanical problem and he couldn't ride it home to Chicago so we rented a truck. Why the heck I thought I could go up a ramp into a truck without getting spooked is beyond me. I should of had Bob do it. I got almost to the top when I slowed down to an almost stop and fell off on my right side. Thank The Lord the ramp was on a slope so the fall was about a foot and onto grass. Feeling really stupid again. New scratches on the right side now and a few on me. The fifth time was all by itself when the side stand sunk into the pavement because of the extreme heat and the asphalt gave away. Of course on the left side again.
I was hit while sitting on the bike behind a scrap metal hauler (pick-up) backed into me and I could get out of the way fast enough. I did not fall or get hurt. I did have to replace my front fender and driving lights. The fender was about $140.00 from the dealer.
Those are my embarrassing moments on the bike. I hope you recover quickly. Keep us updated.
Cathy |
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SonnyO Scooter Rider
Number of posts : 50 Age : 74 Location : Louisiana Points : 4556 Registration date : 2012-07-23
| Subject: Re: Happened again! Tue Nov 06, 2012 7:07 pm | |
| Waspie,
Glad you are on the mend and injuries were not more serious. It is a situation many of us have experienced, just a part of riding.
Surly,
I have the same problem this time of year with leaves in the garage where the bike is parked. I have learned to either sweep the area or use the leaf blower before attempting to back out the Swing. |
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KurtPerthWA Silver Wing Guru
Number of posts : 1711 Age : 75 Location : Belmont, Perth WA Points : 8153 Registration date : 2009-01-19
| Subject: Re: Happened again! Tue Nov 06, 2012 9:19 pm | |
| Training wheels? I need a sidecar or trike conversion, especially with a pillion. Get back on the road asap! Lucky the Swing doesn't have rotors! |
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Ishkatan Super Scooter Rider
Number of posts : 203 Age : 69 Location : Monrovia, Md Points : 5349 Registration date : 2010-11-16
| Subject: Re: Happened again! Wed Nov 07, 2012 2:50 am | |
| Glad that you are on the mend. This bike is heavy - 500+ lbs. Just doesn't feel like it most of the time - until off kilter standing still. My personal rule - wear tall boots and get my feet and other body parts out of the first. The bike is much cheaper to fix than my body. - KurtPerthWA wrote:
- Training wheels?
They make them for Goldwings.... |
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john grinsel Curmudgeon
Number of posts : 3313 Age : 85 Points : 9460 Registration date : 2009-08-18
| Subject: Re: Happened again! Wed Nov 07, 2012 9:04 am | |
| Dropping bikes at no speed happens----sorry about foot, but the sad things about modern plastic scooters.....they sure cost a lot to fix!!.
Roll off side stand happens, too. Bikes I have had that could stand static fall down---Kawasaki Voyager/Harley Electra Glides and early Sportster with crash (roll) bars---scooter on Daelim with the Korean 360 degree sturdy add on bumper. I guess Vespas, too can take the drops when properly equipped.
Modern plastic scooter can cost and do cost lots of money for what appears simple damage. Sad. I slipped a little the other day putting my Burgman on lift, but no damage. Not fun. I remember---1962, my brand new 6T Triumph Thunderbird going down in gas station when my foot slipped on gas/oil spot----Avon fairing took the bump. |
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exavid Silver Wing Guru
Number of posts : 2658 Age : 81 Location : Medford, Oregon Points : 8393 Registration date : 2009-07-17
| Subject: Re: Happened again! Wed Nov 07, 2012 10:47 pm | |
| I have had the experience of dropping four models of Goldwings, GL1100, GL1200, GL1500 and the GL1800. All were non-moving incidents. One time on my 1500 with the wife on the back pulling into a fast food joint with a lot of people standing around I put my foot down in a big oily patch and down we both went. Neither of us was hurt and the bike landed on the crashbars as GWs are wont to do. We just left it there laying over like a ship aground telling the bystanders, "the kickstand is in the shop so I have to park it that way." Got some odd looks. None of those incidents damaged the big 'Wing other than some scratches on the under side of the crash bars where they don't show. Rule of thumb when a big bike decides to lay down and take a nap, get out of it's way! You really have to know the butt first technique to upright a 900lb bike. I'm good at it. No problem with the SW so far. It's said that there are two kinds of riders, those that have dropped their bikes and those that lie about it. |
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tarmacburner2 Silver Wing Guru
Number of posts : 1099 Age : 70 Location : Cleveleys, Lancashire, England Points : 6529 Registration date : 2010-03-27
| Subject: Re: Happened again! Thu Nov 08, 2012 5:38 am | |
| Hope you are on the mend Waspie. Dropping the scoot when stopped is a favourite of mine. The embarrassment is the worst injury!
Cheers,
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Atrick Maxi-Scooter Rider
Number of posts : 198 Age : 75 Location : England Points : 4671 Registration date : 2012-09-04
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joncallihan Silver Wing Guru
Number of posts : 1025 Age : 86 Location : Lafayette, Colorado, USA Points : 6927 Registration date : 2009-02-16
| Subject: Re: Happened again! Thu Nov 08, 2012 10:29 am | |
| - Ishkatan wrote:
- KurtPerthWA wrote:
- Training wheels?
They make them for Goldwings.... I have them on my Swing -- Danson Trike kit. :flower: |
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Okiedolkle Scooter Rider
Number of posts : 69 Location : Allentown, PA Points : 4609 Registration date : 2012-06-27
| Subject: Re: Happened again! Thu Nov 08, 2012 11:12 am | |
| Sorry to hear about the layover of the Swing. Glad you faired fairly well.
I have the Danson Trike kit also. My philosophy is ... when you first learn to ride a bike, training wheels are big help. AND, after a certain age, we need those training wheels again - hence, the trike!
Homer |
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Atrick Maxi-Scooter Rider
Number of posts : 198 Age : 75 Location : England Points : 4671 Registration date : 2012-09-04
| Subject: Re: Happened again! Thu Nov 08, 2012 12:23 pm | |
| Oooh errr... If I'm gonna need the extra wheels in the future, I'd better start saving up now...!!! |
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joncallihan Silver Wing Guru
Number of posts : 1025 Age : 86 Location : Lafayette, Colorado, USA Points : 6927 Registration date : 2009-02-16
| Subject: Re: Happened again! Thu Nov 08, 2012 5:03 pm | |
| - Atrick wrote:
Where does the bloody crowd suddenly materialise from...??? It one of the unwritten laws that your own misfortune cannot happen without onlookers. :flower: |
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Waspie Silver Wing Guru
Number of posts : 2392 Age : 72 Location : Portland, UK Points : 8143 Registration date : 2009-07-26
| Subject: Re: Happened again! Thu Nov 08, 2012 5:33 pm | |
| Well guys, sitrep.
Haven't heard from the repairers (yet). Having the front wheel bearing changed whilst I'm losing the machine for a while too!
Foot is swollen, feels like it is splitting!!! It's now a nice blend of black, blue, red, purple and all colours in between. Oh - and sore! Managing to walk but with some additional pain. Really glad I had sturdy boot on. Composite toecap did a fine job, the injury was from the foot twisting through 90 degrees.
Lesson learned methinks. |
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Atrick Maxi-Scooter Rider
Number of posts : 198 Age : 75 Location : England Points : 4671 Registration date : 2012-09-04
| Subject: Re: Happened again! Fri Nov 09, 2012 2:01 am | |
| Sorry to hear you're having difficulties getting about, Doug, but sounds like a good reason to settle back & down a shot or two of "Pusser's"... |
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Waspie Silver Wing Guru
Number of posts : 2392 Age : 72 Location : Portland, UK Points : 8143 Registration date : 2009-07-26
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Nowun Super Scooter Rider
Number of posts : 288 Age : 71 Location : Hampshire, England Points : 4714 Registration date : 2012-10-13
| Subject: Re: Happened again! Fri Nov 09, 2012 3:48 pm | |
| Well we can tell, where you two have had some misspent years! |
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Waspie Silver Wing Guru
Number of posts : 2392 Age : 72 Location : Portland, UK Points : 8143 Registration date : 2009-07-26
| Subject: Re: Happened again! Fri Nov 09, 2012 3:52 pm | |
| - Nowun wrote:
- Well we can tell, where you two have had some misspent years!
Twenty four and one half years to be exact! Then I was told to act my age at 40. Errrr didn't quite happen! |
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Nowun Super Scooter Rider
Number of posts : 288 Age : 71 Location : Hampshire, England Points : 4714 Registration date : 2012-10-13
| Subject: Re: Happened again! Fri Nov 09, 2012 4:02 pm | |
| I doubt it ever will, and neither should it. Well done lads! |
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Atrick Maxi-Scooter Rider
Number of posts : 198 Age : 75 Location : England Points : 4671 Registration date : 2012-09-04
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Waspie Silver Wing Guru
Number of posts : 2392 Age : 72 Location : Portland, UK Points : 8143 Registration date : 2009-07-26
| Subject: Re: Happened again! Sat Nov 10, 2012 9:01 am | |
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Nowun Super Scooter Rider
Number of posts : 288 Age : 71 Location : Hampshire, England Points : 4714 Registration date : 2012-10-13
| Subject: Re: Happened again! Sat Nov 10, 2012 1:20 pm | |
| ... and the not so nice girls? |
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Winger61 Silver Wing Rider
Number of posts : 452 Age : 75 Location : Louth, Lincolnshire, UK Points : 5629 Registration date : 2010-10-15
| Subject: Re: Happened again! Sat Nov 10, 2012 3:28 pm | |
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Atrick Maxi-Scooter Rider
Number of posts : 198 Age : 75 Location : England Points : 4671 Registration date : 2012-09-04
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Waspie Silver Wing Guru
Number of posts : 2392 Age : 72 Location : Portland, UK Points : 8143 Registration date : 2009-07-26
| Subject: Re: Happened again! Mon Nov 19, 2012 5:16 am | |
| Another update.
Just back from the doctors and he has refused to let me return to work as the ankle still hasn't healed properly. Another week off, not that I'm complaining too much about being away from somewhere I really don't like, but I thought I might have stopped limping by now and the pain might have subsided.
Regards the bike!!! Long story, the insurance company I am with is seriously playing me along terribly. Two weeks after the accident and they haven't authorised the repair yet. Tomorrow is the earliest they can get an assessor to look at the bike! They also zero'd my No Claims, and bumped my premiums by 60%. Foolish of them really as I was 2 weeks away from renewing the policy. As a result I have not renewed with them and had a bit of a mouthful on the telephone with them. (I imagine that call may be behind the heel dragging over the authorisation).
Just as well I'm not fit enough to ride or I might be angrier that I am. So I now sit and wait and wait and wait! |
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tarmacburner2 Silver Wing Guru
Number of posts : 1099 Age : 70 Location : Cleveleys, Lancashire, England Points : 6529 Registration date : 2010-03-27
| Subject: Re: Happened again! Mon Nov 19, 2012 5:54 am | |
| Hello Waspie,
Assume the quack said the ankle was improving, just not enough to have to return to work. Insurance companies - legalised robbery! On you next policy when you get the chance go for protected no claims - certainly better than a 60% hike.
Cheers, |
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tinman Silver Wing Guru
Number of posts : 1298 Age : 76 Location : Matheson, Ontario, Canada Points : 6125 Registration date : 2011-11-29
| Subject: Re: Happened again! Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:03 am | |
| I never bothered to get full coverage on my Swing . The insurance company never give you what it is worth,they will ware you down,and raise your premium. It will be on record with you every were you go. I paid an xtra $17 dollars on my premium and If I get into a accident my rate will not go up. |
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bikerboy Silver Wing Rider
Number of posts : 405 Age : 81 Location : Leyland England Points : 5366 Registration date : 2011-05-12
| Subject: Re: Happened again! Mon Nov 19, 2012 2:47 pm | |
| Protected no claims is exactly that, you keep your no claim discount but that doesn't prevent them from hiking up your actual premium so the company still wins anyway !!! |
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Waspie Silver Wing Guru
Number of posts : 2392 Age : 72 Location : Portland, UK Points : 8143 Registration date : 2009-07-26
| Subject: Re: Happened again! Mon Nov 19, 2012 3:08 pm | |
| - tarmacburner2 wrote:
- Hello Waspie,
Assume the quack said the ankle was improving, just not enough to have to return to work. Insurance companies - legalised robbery! On you next policy when you get the chance go for protected no claims - certainly better than a 60% hike.
Cheers, Ankle is better that it was a week ago but is very painful when putting lateral load onto it. Still tender to touch!! Re Insurance!!! As been stated Protected NCD doesn't mean that premiums wont be affected. I have Protected Full NCD on car but was warned that after the SMIDSY in that the premiums MAY go up. The other driver accepted full responsibility so my insurance company didn't part with one groat!! As for the bike insurance, I made the mistake of putting all my eggs in one basket as there was a financial incentive to do so. In hindsight, bad move. LV aren't geared up for two wheeled insurance. That I found when the girl who the accident was reported to said the local CAR garages won't touch my bike. It was at this point I kicked into sarcasm mode and probably shot myself in the foot!!!! (The good one ) Insurance is unfortunately a legal requisite here in the UK otherwise I wouldn't bother!!! Now I am with one of the big motorcycle insurance groups - at least they know it's a motorcycle and not a cage!!!!! I wait to see what LV's assessors say tomorrow!!!!! |
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tinman Silver Wing Guru
Number of posts : 1298 Age : 76 Location : Matheson, Ontario, Canada Points : 6125 Registration date : 2011-11-29
| Subject: Re: Happened again! Mon Nov 19, 2012 3:52 pm | |
| Good luck and hope for the best. |
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tarmacburner2 Silver Wing Guru
Number of posts : 1099 Age : 70 Location : Cleveleys, Lancashire, England Points : 6529 Registration date : 2010-03-27
| Subject: Re: Happened again! Mon Nov 19, 2012 3:58 pm | |
| I'm with Carole Nash for insurance on the scooters. I also went with them on my travel insurance as they are not paranoid about not covering motorcycle accidents.
Cheers, |
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Waspie Silver Wing Guru
Number of posts : 2392 Age : 72 Location : Portland, UK Points : 8143 Registration date : 2009-07-26
| Subject: Re: Happened again! Mon Nov 19, 2012 4:15 pm | |
| - tarmacburner2 wrote:
- I'm with Carole Nash for insurance on the scooters. I also went with them on my travel insurance as they are not paranoid about not covering motorcycle accidents.
Cheers, That's who I opted for in the end. |
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MikeO Site Admin
Number of posts : 3837 Age : 75 Location : Seaham, Co Durham, UK Points : 9701 Registration date : 2009-06-29
| Subject: Re: Happened again! Tue Nov 20, 2012 4:37 am | |
| My scooters were always insured with Carole Nash and I shall resume insuring with her when I get back. Ed's been looking around and also will use her, not least because combined car and bike cover is on offer. I had to get on quickly with car insurance so went to the broker in Salisbury who fixed up house insurance for me but I'll move the car on to a joint policy after a year. |
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Dimond Silver Wing Expert
Number of posts : 540 Age : 79 Location : San Francisco Bay Area Points : 5528 Registration date : 2011-08-07
| Subject: Re: Happened again! Thu Dec 13, 2012 6:31 am | |
| Hi Waspie, Sorry to hear about the damage (to you and to the SWing)! Trusting that your bike and body will be back to normal for the holiday season. I have had and hate those 'tipovers' with my SWing. Now, when a tipover gets to that 'point of no return' I try to jump clear of the Titanic and then regroup to pick up my SWing (and one time the pieces!). While it has been about 20,000 miles since my last SWing tipover - I know unfortunately that my next tipover is coming and that it could happen at any time. |
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exavid Silver Wing Guru
Number of posts : 2658 Age : 81 Location : Medford, Oregon Points : 8393 Registration date : 2009-07-17
| Subject: Re: Happened again! Fri Dec 14, 2012 1:56 am | |
| I've managed to drop my 1500 Goldwing more times than I like to remember. The usual stuff, kickstand sank into the ground, put foot down on oily pavement, put foot down on sandy pavement, put foot down on muddy pavement, bike rolled forward off stand, and once parked the bike and got off forgetting the stand. That one was after an 800 mile ride. At least I use that for an excuse. My 1800 wasn't so easy to drop for some reason. The only time I dropped it was when a car backed out suddenly in a parking lot when I was making as turn. Luckily it was hardly moving so it didn't do any damage. So far I haven't managed to drop either of the SWs I've owned. The 900lb GW was good training, fingers crossed though. As they say, there's two kinds of riders, those who've dropped their bike and those that lie about it. |
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