Lots of research on lots of super scooters

I've been researching large scooters for several years now.  I've looked at Burgman 400 and 650, Yamaha Majesty, big Kymco and the Honda Silverwing.  These are the only large scooters with a dealer network in my neck of the woods and can doo what I want in a 2 wheeled conveyance.  I've more or less settled on the SW for a number of reasons.  See if the following makes sense to you folks
I'm a long time motorcycle rider but I have no allegiance to any brand or am I stuck on number of cylinders or size in CC's.  I never rode a scooter until my wife bought a Yamaha 125 Vino from a friend of hers and I rode it home.  I have an Adventure bike and it's fun, fast and carry's a ton of "stuff".  Well that little scooter gets a workout from me too.  I love the jump on twist and go and it too will carry a good bit back home.  I find I like twist and go and it doesn't effect my male ego.  
I set my priorities for a scooter to carry me and my gear/supplies easily up and down the hill when and wherever I choose to go.  I need a minimum of 400cc to be able to exceed 70mph easily, carry a top box of 45L minimum and be reliable.  Comfort isn't too big a deal as the above scooters all fit my size well and can be fitted with proper windscreens, luggage etc.  Taking the bikes from above these are the ones I narrowed to;  the Burgman 400, Yamaha Majesty and the SW.  I put a lot of miles on a bike and I ask on the Burgman 650 forum if anyone had taken a Burgman 650 beyond 80,000miles, without a major repair.  I was told by those folks that perhaps I would be better served with another bike.  Seems the Burger 650 is a throw away scooter if the internal drive belt shreds or  you drop $4,000+ to get it fixed.  I could not find an owner that has gone beyond 80,000 miles without this belt breaking, some at less than 50,000mi.  High cost and possible short life span dropped the big 650.  The Kymco's I looked at and frankly there is a bunch of flimsy items on them that will not take long term use, IMO.  The 400 Burger is a scooter and a nice one.  It feels bigger than the 400cc motor, runs good and easy to work on for a scoot.  It is expensive, too expensive for a 400 and you cannot get a deal on a new one from a dealer no matter how long it has sat there.  Yamaha majesty, not bad looking, seems to be fairly bullet proof.  Has a bad rep for being hard to work on and to get at filters.  I do all my own minor maintenance and service so that's a biggy.  The wing...became my pick.  It's got the power, and can carry a big load, has the aftermarket windscreens and "stuff" I'd want.  The quality is there with the rest of the Japanese scooters.  The claimed MPG is as good as the 400 Burgman and has a lot more motor.  I'm not a techno geek and all the power modes, power windscreen, mirrors and gizmos on the big Burger are a distraction for me.  I don't like radios or speakers on a bike either.  I enjoy the RIDE.  The Wing just has what I want and none of the things I'd never use.  So anyway to make a short story long, that's why I'm here and will be looking at what to mod or look out for when I make my purchase.  If you guys know of any thing I should be aware of while I search for a Wing to make mine let me know.  I do know about the front springs(is that all years?).  Regards.......Mike

Welcome to the asylum Mikie.

For all the observations you've made about the other scooters, and the relative ease of maintenance and legendary Honda depenability, the Silverwing should be your choice.

I ride an '03 which I purchased new and currently have 95,000 miles on it. I've done all of my own maintenance on it. There have been no major problems with the bike.

If I were going to replace my scoot I'd be looking for an '08 or later with ABS. Fuel economy is 'better' with the newer ECM on the later scoots.

So there's my 2¢

Tim

Thanks Tim. From your mileage you sound like me. I ride ALOT and I need a very dependable scoot. I put 54,000miles in four years on my last motorcycle. I hope to be able to do that type of miles easily on a Wing. I wonder why I never looked at scooters before a couple years ago? I really like the simplicity and ease of operation. Nothing makes a motorcycle rider a believer more than up and down hill fast and slow turns in the mountains. Do it on a motorcycle with a close ratio 6 speed then do it on a Silverwing. The 6sp will wear you out and really you will not go any faster than the Wing unless your endangering yourself or the public. I have some leads on a couple new, old stock Silverwings but this is the time of year the dealers don't want to give deals. I'm in no hurry and I'll get that "deal" sooner or later. Thanks again........Mike

Hi Mike, I'm relatively new to the SWing also. I've ridden various cycles in the past but nothing bigger than my 1980 Yamaha Special 850. The one before that was a 1974 CB750 Honda which my son now has.

My SWing is an 08 that I bought from my sister in FL last spring. It had just over 18,000 miles on it and had been sitting under a tarp for two years. It now has just over 21,000 miles. I trailered it home and after some TLC got it running. Last year I put new tires, battery, oil and filter. This winter I put a new drive belt and 26 Gram Dr. Sliders in it. With the new drive belt I feel safe taking it on longer trips away from home. The drive belt was changed at 17,700 miles but after sitting for two years I didn't really feel all that confident about it. When I changed it the belt looked new and measured new but it had sat for two years. The tires were weather cracked a bit and I though so might be the belt. I now keep it for a spare in the Givi top box.

I've read some of the comments about Dr. Sliders on this site and that's what made me spring for them when I changed out the belt. I figured as long as it was apart, why not? I'm not regretting it a bit. It seems to have more pick up from a stop and runs great. I'm still getting around 50 MPG like before but I have no complaints at all with the SWing. Honda makes a pretty bullet proof machine.

Welcome to this site. The BEST SWing site on the Net. Hope my comments helped you.
Dale

I didn't discover this forum till after I bought my Swing. I looked at the Burgman 650, the Yamaha T-Max and the Silverwing. Never rode a motorcycle before my MSF safety class. Found my Swing on Scooterfinds.com. Right price, low mileage, trailered it home from southern Illinois. Just glad I ended up with the Silverwing now knowing all the info I have read on the other scooters. I bought in Sept. 2010 and have put 45,000 miles on it it would of been well over 50,000 had I not gotten hurt last summer.

Welcome Mike.         You forgot to mention the wonderful forum for Silver Wing owners.     Jeff will be hurt.  

I appreciate all the info you folks throw my way!...............Mike

Mike welcome to the best Silverwing forum on the web. Sounds like you've done your homework. The 650 burgman gets a bum rap, it's not as bad as some people say. It will cost $2,000 to $4,000 if you're one the unlucky few to have your ECTV goes south.
But I think you chose best, but having more than one Silverwing I may be opinionated.
 If you are looking forward to learning and plan on doing your own maintenance you'll find you can do anything you need or want with the service manual and help from this forum.
I add the paragraph below for most new members because there's a lot of information in the links and may save you some work.
Here are some links(3 below in blue)that will help you learn a lot about your Silverwing. If you can't find what you need in the links below the search on this forum works good, and if you still need help just ask and someone will do what they can to answer your questions.

Maintenance, Tips and Hints
Maintenance "Pictorials"
Accessories-Modifications

Thanks Roger I'll use the links...........Ride safe.....Mike

Hi mike and welcome , i think everything can get expensive when you go to working on it , i am a honda man myself , just cause that's mostly what i have owned and had great service out of them , i would still like to have one of those T-max Yamaha's for spirited rides on the twisty's , my swing to me is like what a minivan is to most people .

moonshiner wrote:

Hi mike and welcome , i think everything can get expensive when you go to working on it , i am a honda man myself , just cause that's mostly what i have owned and had great service out of them , i would still like to have one of those T-max Yamaha's for spirited rides on the twisty's  , my swing to me is like what a minivan is to most people .

I have a V-Strom 650 Adventure that I use also. The T-Max is just too much like a impractical sport bike. Everytime I go out it seems I have to bring something back. No place for helmet jacket and "stuff". Oh. the T-Max costs 3-4 thousand more bucks than a V-Strom. Way more than I can justify for a fun bike.

Mike, for many of the reasons you noted in your post is why I chose the SW. Like others here, I stumbled upon this site after I bought my 2010 SW. The following is some of my rationale for purchasing the SW; I originally had a HD Fatboy. Nice bike, heavy, and anything to do with HD is very expensive. Also it isn't the kind of bike you could just hop on and cruise to the store for a quart of milk. Not much storage with the saddlebags, etc. In sum it was just too hard to ride for short trips. I sold it after two years and decided to go the scooter route because I wanted something simple, dependable and reasonable to up keep. At the time I found an almost new 650 Burgman. I had done a lot of research and was convinced at that time the Burgman was the best choice for me. It had the power, storage, and provided the twist and go simplicity which is what most scooters owners are attracted to begin with. I honestly could never get use to the very hard engine braking sound the engine would make every time I slowed the bike down or let off the throttle. Also, add to the fact that all the threads I read (after I purchased the Burg) I noted the problems folks had when the mileage on the Burgman went over 20k miles. So, I sold it. Finally, I went to a BMW dealer and tried out the super scooter they offered. In short I just didn't like the way if felt, although it had some nice features. This past January I decided to try SW as a sort of last resort. So, I bought a used 2010 SW with less than 5k miles. While I have only been on it for a couple of hundred miles here's my take; first I like the simplicity of the analog dash. I didn't like the Burgmans digital dashboard. On the SW its engine braking seems mild compared to the Burgman. Storage in the SW is great. Above all I love its sleek slimmer look and its weight balance makes it a lot easier to balance in slow traffic than the Burgman. In my opinion this made a big difference in the handling which adds to the ease of hoping on the scoot and going to the store for a short ride in heavy traffic. Finally, the dependability of the SW (Honda) was/is legendary and was the last straw for me. In sum, with the SW you get dependability, easy ride and easy handling, storage, ability to relax legs on like rides, and the power to kick it when you need it. My only regret is that wish I had bought the SW to begin with.

Very interesting but paragraphs are a writer's best friend.

After several years of research and knowing what "I want" in a bike, the Silverwing is the only way I want to go. I like the simplicity of operation and maintenance. I'm not cheap but I prefer to do my own maintenance since I do not trust others to do things the way I WANT THEM TO.
I did my research on a HD truck many years ago and spent 7 months looking for a truck that did everything I wanted. I bought it new in 2002 as a 2003 model and I'm still driving and towing with it today. I've done my own maintenance and in it's 13th year it runs and looks new. It tows my 10,000lb trailer a minimum of 5,000 miles a year. I'm just referencing what I want from my vehicles...reliability, dependability, practicality and value.
Guess I'm not the cover child for spur of the moment, have to have now..............Ride safe folks...Mike

I think you can woffle on endlessly about researching the Silver Wing and other maxi scooters you've considered on forums. You say you've been researching several years and still haven't bought one, it's hardly difficult, read up a bit, visit a few dealers to look at them, try one out for size, then buy one. Instead you've spent years comparing scooters you only know about from reading about others experiences when you could of been riding a medium or large capacity scooter of your own. That's several years of practical maxi riding experience and learning you could have had under your belt, and they're lost years because you can never get them back.

Don't forget you could buy a Silver Wing and find out it isn't for you at all, and for every 650 Burgman with transmission faults you've read about on the Grinners forum, there's shedloads of them clocking up the miles worldwide without any problems.

True true true Meldrew, But that's just my nature. I really don't miss out on 2 wheeling or twist n go. I have my V-Strom Adventure and my wifes 125 Vino. The reason I "try" to get all the info I want is so I don't end up dumping bucks into something I find I don't like. I see too many folks with bikes for sale, some mega accessorized with tiny miles on them. Many were spur of the moment or what others told them they would like or need. I'm on a mission now to locate the best deal, or the best deal in my mind........Regards and ride safe, Mike
PS. it is tough where I live to even find a dealer with a big scooter on the floor. You get zero chance to ride one before you buy around here also. I'm going to an Adventure meet/camp on May 1, Suzuki is going to be there with their demo fleet. I will ride the big 650 Burgman and hopefully the 400.

I wouldn't worry too much about the B650's but just keep it in the back of your mind that if the CVT does go it will cost a lot of money, if you don't have a warranty. Like Meldrew said, there are plenty that have never had the problem. It seems the older ones had the problem and I don't hear of the newer ones having the problem. But the SWing is bullet proof and you can run them forever and they they run very well. I had mine for 7 years and really liked it. It was smooth and comfortable and had plenty of power for me. If you plan to get an older scooter, say older than a 2008, I would go with the Swing since you wouldn't know how the B650 was run. That is just my opinion though.

I certainly appreciate all the insight and experience you folks are giving me. I absorb this stuff like a sponge does water. How much I retain is sometimes debatable, LOL. Thank you all very much and just to clarify, in no way am I saying other scooters are not good or wouldn't serve another person well. The Silverwing just fits what I'm looking for in a scooter. It's a better fit for "me".
Mike

Mike what part of Earth do you live on, it's a big place after all. There may be someone that lives close to you who would let you test ride their scooter. Are you close to me? I've owned a few scooters and ridden most models and I am sure that the Silverwing is the best scooter for me that money can buy.

lol

It would seem that a lot of "hunting" has been done. Perhaps it is time to actually pull the trigger and complete the task.

As I've said several times above........I'm on the hunt for the best deal I can get on a Silverwing.  I never overpay for anything just to get it quickly.  The research is done, the hunt has just began.

Roger, I was at NAS Jacksonville 3 weeks ago then Savannah Ga the following week, but I'm in Hurricane WV today and Raleigh NC tomorrow.  Gathering no moss this year.  I usually spend 6-8 weeks at a pop in Hurricane WV but that is dependent on what the boss has for me to do.

Ride safe guys.........Mike

I've had two Silverwings, one Burgman 650 and my current BMW C650GT. I would have stayed with the SW if it wasn't for my wife that likes to hop on the pillion now and then. On the SW the two of us would have exceeded the Gross Vehicle Weight for the scooter. The BMW can carry a bit over 400lbs without exceeding the GVW. It's also a bit larger which is good for two up.

I didn't like the Burgman's complex electrically driven variator. It's operated by a small electrical motor with plastic gears instead of flyweights. Much more possibilities for failures. It would be a great scooter to me if it had a more standard CVT setup. It does have a very hard deceleration if one lets off the throttle to use engine braking. Not so bad once you get used to easing off the throttle as it slows down.

I wasn't too impressed with the GT's styling but the bike really handles well and that 60hp gives some impressive performance. The factory electrically controlled windshield works well. I'm getting used to its looks now. I do like the tire pressure monitor and heated grips and seat.

In my opinion the BMW and SW are the best of the available maxi scooters here in the US. It's a real pity the Silverwing has been discontinued here.

I would be riding almost exclusively by myself and I would be safely inside the GVW. My wife married me when I was broke, unemployed, no place to live, had a couple changes of cloths and owned only a motorcycle. What she saw in that dude, I'll never know. You would think she would accept 2 wheels. Nope, she never found it fun and we have been married forever. I ride alone.

I'm on my 4th Burgman 650 and have had no problems whatsoever and none of my friends have either.

Leave the trans in "Drive" and forget about it. In the mountains, being able to keep it in a lower gear is nice or downshifting for more spirited passing may come in handy.

I doubt that a lot of us buy a Maxi-scooter with the intention of keeping it forever, so why worry if you need a new belt or CVT repair at extended mileages.

A wet clutch like my B650 or my past T-max 500 is Soooo nice at take off and is as smooth as a cars auto trans: No dry clutch shuddering that causes belt pounding and slap---just smooth easy power.

My 2012 Executive has some nice features like the electric windshield and electric retractable mirrors, multiple speed trans, and a very thorough and comprehensive real time computer instrument display to name a few.

I love the Silverwing and it's the only Maxi-scooter available in the United States that I haven't owned! Maybe someday.

Sam:)

TinMan2 wrote:

I would be riding almost exclusively by myself and I would be safely inside the GVW.  My wife married me when I was broke, unemployed, no place to live, had a couple changes of cloths and owned only a motorcycle.  What she saw in that dude, I'll never know.  You would think she would accept 2 wheels.  Nope, she never found it fun and we have been married forever.  I ride alone.

She has to stay home and wash that other set of clothes!! :lol!:

@TinMan - before you buy sit on the bikes.

I find the Bergman 650 is the most comfortable, especially for cruising. The BMW feels like I'm sitting on a rail and I just can't see riding one for long. The Swing is a compromise - comfortable enough for a 150 mile non-stop trip and subsequent group rides but not as much a couch as the Bergman.

The standard Swing windshield directs an air blast right at you. I have a tall Givi that came with my bike and it is great up to about 65mph. Above that I have to duck forward because of air turbulence buffeting the helmet - I keep getting whacks from behind but no one is there. Makes me paranoid. Ventury vents help but only a little when fully open on a hot day. Leaning a little forward puts me in the pocket and I've cruised at 95 on the speedo staying with a Goldwing. The Bergman has an electronically adjustable windshield like my FJR - nice to play with.

The small wheels and suspension transmit bumps.... my FJR1300 AE has big wheels and better suspension and I don't feel bumps or road snakes. On the Swing road snakes make me squirm. The small wheels are one of the main reasons I switched to the FJR which feels more stable (and less maneuverable at slow speed.) I noticed that the Bergman and BMW have slightly bigger wheels.

My bike has developed a bit of a shudder on startup. I cleaned the varistor and changed the belt a couple thousand miles/years ago and am wondering if the rollers are balanced or if I missed something. Smooths out at speed.

I am considering selling the bike - or not, and getting Dr. Pulley 26g weights. Also, I need a new rear tire - if I sell it should be a standard MC tire but if I keep the bike I want a darkside... which is hard to find locally for some reason.

After all that - go sit on the bike. The ergonomics should be a key consideration.

the only difference between the Burgman 650,BMW ,and Swing wheels ,are the rim size. The outside diameter of the tires are basically non existent .check the the tire charts,the outer diameter are so close to each other that it's not worth mentioning .tinman here not Tin Man 2.

I did sit on a several Burgmans. I don't know why but the handlebars on the 400 felt fine but the bars on the 650 felt cramped and narrow? Whats with that?
I have to say again; I put a lot of miles on my 2 wheelers. The 54,000 miles on my Roadstar were all put on in 4 years. I intend to put 150,000+- on a big scooter and keep it. I ask on the Burgman forum if ANYONE had put over 80,000 miles on a 650 WITHOUT a MAJOR repair. No one has, one guy has over 130,000 on a 2013 but his has had a major $4,000+ repair when the belt went out. The 650 Burgman forum riders said "perhaps the 650 isn't for you since you put a lot of miles on your bikes. The 400 would be a better bike for you". That wasn't me saying that, the 650 owners told me that. I can work on a normal scooter easily but I'm not sure I want to attack the 650 Burgmans internal belt.

Small wheels, I know, as the Yamaha Vino 125 my wife bought and never rode. I ride it, and it turns mega quick and seems to find every crack, pothole and road irregularity that's out there.

I still feel the Silverwing is the scooter I need/want.

Hey there tinman. Someone else with no heart................

tinman is correct about the tire size, the rims are bigger on the 650 but the od of the tires is the same. I go on the Burgman forum too. Sometimes it's hard to not say how much better I feel the Silverwing is.  I don't think the Burgman forum is the proper place to brag about how great the Silverwing is.

Seems the conversations are about anything but the silver wing here today! Kymco, burgman, Fjr...

The BMW C650Gt has 15" wheels but I don't notice much difference in ride quality between it and the SW, in fact the GT seems to have a bit stiffer suspension than the SW or Burgman. All three, SW, Burgman, and C650GT are great bikes, the Silverwing has a wee bit less performance but is about as bulletproof as a machine can be. Burgman does have a problem with their transmissions, not all of them, but it's there and expensive when it happens. The BMW has great performance and features but hasn't been around long enough to have much of a track record. If one wants a great maxi scooter with proven reliability the Silverwing should be at the top of one's list. If it's handling and power one wants the BMW is hard to beat but it doesn't have much of a track record yet so it could go either way as far as reliability.

Tire diameter is an interesting point. I just measured the radius of my GT's tires. From the center of the axle to the ground while sitting on the ground for a true running radius I measured 11 3/4" radius for both front and rear wheels. That's 23 1/2" in diameter. The rear tire is 6 1/2" wide, front 4 1/2". That's 1/2 inch wider than the front and rear wheels on my K1100LT.
Just as a matter of interest how does that compare with the SW and Burgman?