Dr pulley sliding pieces

I'm about to order some dr pulleys, most likely 24g.
Do I need the sliding pieces too or are the standard honda ones ok?

The stock sliding pieces will work fine...

Not absolutely necessary, but they do "tighten up" the ramp plate and quiet things down a bit. Check the FSM to see what Honda recommends. If your sliding pieces are loose, either on the ramp plate or on the variator guides, or you are at/near a change interval then I would certainly upgrade to Dr Pulley sliding pieces. They wont wear out.

But as Cliffyk says, above, there is nothing wrong with the OEM slide pieces either.

Bob and I just got back from an 1800 mile ride to AR, LA, MS. He changed my OEM rollers to 26GR sliders and Dr Pulley slide pieces. The Swing was very smooth. I now have 70,852 miles on my SWing. Trip was good. Glad I changed to the Dr Pulley's.

I had to change the Sliding pieces on my Burg 400, it it was rattling at idle, the new sliding pieces cured the noise and it was very quiet after they were replaced. The wear was visible as excess play, they had worn on the variator guides. This type of wear is common on these type variators. It is a good idea to replace the slides when replacing the rollers, that is why Dr Pulley sells them, but the Honda ones are probably just as good.
Cheers!

I've ordered the lot, dispatched apparently and on their way.

At great possible, personal embarrassment risk, I have to ask: "What exactly are these sliding pieces y'all are speaking of... ???" Did I leave something out when I switched over to sliders from rollers ???

Remember those 4 gray triangle shaped pieces that fell off the ramp plate when you removed the variator...then you had to get down on your hands & knees to locate the one you heard drop? That's them.

Tim

Well.... that makes me feel better !!! Thanks Tim !!

Best description of any motor part I've heard yet :-)

Nah, best description is the 'ping-****', used to describe a small part that tend sto either drop-n-roll or fly across the workshop unseen, which usually elicits the phrase '**** it'

EDIT: oooh, seems we have auto-censoring ok, so lets make that a "ping-phukit"

My scooter was a bit noisy too and when I replaced my rollers with sliders my sliding pieces all fell off. Fortunately I'd ordered the whole lot so had the new sliding pieces to replace them.Mine were very tight so I filed them with a small flat needle file till they moved but were still a little stiff to slide. I've now no noise from that area and it works perfectly.

I've just ordered the same bits, to go with some 22g sliders. I figured I might as well get them now while I'm paying for post etc.

For reference, I've just done some speed tests on my bike with a live recording. I've then taken some times from this recording via a stopwatch. Sounds long winded but it means during the speed test one can concentrate on riding and do the timings later. I use a similar method while doing my air pistol competitions, and is usually accurate to better than 1/4 seconds. I had two goes at each run.

Results for stock transmission 2007 Swing, with Givi Airflow screen and +20mm rear ride height:

### 0-60mph = 7.10 seconds, 7.00 seconds on next try from a stationary @ idle start.

### 40-80mph roll on = 8.53 seconds, 8.66 seconds.

From a stationary start @ 3,000rpm brake release:
0-50 5.19 seconds, 5.11 seconds.
..-60 6.87 seconds, 6.99 seconds.
..-70 9.31 seconds, 11.36 seconds.
..-80 12.15 seconds, 12.29 seconds.
..-90 15.78 seconds, 15.80 seconds.



I'll compare these times once I've got the 22g sliders fitted (once they arrive).

gavinfdavies wrote:

For reference, I've just done some speed tests on my bike with a live recording. I've then taken some times from this recording via a stopwatch. Sounds long winded but it means during the speed test one can concentrate on riding and do the timings later. I use a similar method while doing my air pistol competitions, and is usually accurate to better than 1/4 seconds. I had two goes at each run.

Results for stock transmission 2007 Swing, with Givi Airflow screen and +20mm rear ride height:

###  0-60mph = 7.10 seconds, 7.00 seconds on next try from a stationary @ idle start.

### 40-80mph roll on = 8.53 seconds, 8.66 seconds.

From a stationary start @ 3,000rpm brake release:
0-50  5.19 seconds, 5.11 seconds.
..-60   6.87 seconds, 6.99 seconds.
..-70   9.31 seconds, 11.36 seconds.
..-80   12.15 seconds, 12.29 seconds.
..-90   15.78 seconds, 15.80 seconds.



I'll compare these times once I've got the 22g sliders fitted (once they arrive).

Your numbers are right on compared to many Quarter mile times I have recorded at the drag strips over the years of testing I have done.

Looking forward to your times with the 22 Gram Sliders.

Thanks, Happy motoring Lloyd 193.

Glad the times check out. The only figures I've seen previously were off you tube (6.2 seconds)... I was thinking I was a bit slow! Then again, I'm not the lightest rider at 14-15st plus gear. Compared to a typical Far-east build rider at (say) 10 stone.

gavinfdavies wrote:

For reference, I've just done some speed tests on my bike with a live recording....

A note of engine revolutions at steady highway/motorway speeds may be useful also?

Flyingpanman wrote:

A note of engine revolutions at steady highway/motorway speeds may be useful also?

Yep, plus one on that request

You know that's something I forgot to check, although I've seen plenty bandied about on here. It was accurate 0-60 times and more importantly 40-80 roll on times I was after.

The only one that sticks in my mind was 8,000rpm at 105mph!

Generally it's at about 6,500rpm at 85mph.

The Dr Pulley's were collected today. Apparently the Royal Fail tried to deliver them on 25th Jan but scribbled on the packet the following:

No
Access
Trucks (?)

Left
s;jkdqd;hfj (squiggle)


I live on a normal modern housing estate, nothing odd. They didn't leave a calling card, nor did they attempt redelivery. Their online tracking system said 'internal server error' for the last two weeks, and the Deutsche Post website said 'item scanned but not found, check with country of destination' or similar. Hence it was only today that I finally went to sorting office to say 'what the feck is going on' that they bothered to mention 'oh, it's here'.

Any way, the side of the pulley is off and I'm mid installation. Variator bolt is well and truly seized, so I'm charging up the electric impact wrench. I only use it about once a year, so it's always got a flat battery!

Oh, please don't use that impact gun to reinstall the bolt. Use a proper torque wrench. The reason your bolt is seized is because the previous nimrod used an impact tool. Right tool, right job. Lube the bolt threads too.

Tim

Don't panic, I'm not that daft! ;-)

I haven't even got it off yet. Waiting for the right tool to charge up to get it off. Wanted to check it was definitely a normal right hand thread first. The OEM manual should say, but mine is great at missing out important info. I've taken to annotating it as I go!

Lefty loosey, righty tighty

That's what I thought, although I've come across a few left hand threads on other bikes. Mirrors being the most common example. Last things I wanted to do was 'lefty tighty' with a rattle gun when trying to remove it.

As it was, the officially '103 Nm' bolt couldn't be budged with a 250Nm rattle gun. Hence I resorted to gentle application of a blow torch. Not joy. More blow torch (only until rear of pulley became too hot to touch) followed by a does of spray on brake cleaner (basically meths in a can) for very rapid cool down to try to thermal shock the mating faces apart. Next try with the gun it came off after about 5 seconds. Inspection showed it to be dry as a bone. So much for 'oil before tightening' at the Honda factory. Every bolt was like that. At 4,000 miles I'm probably the first person to open the side case up!

Suffice to save everything will be correctly greased before refitting. I noted a fair bit of powdery corrosion above the rear pulley on the outside of the shiny inner case. Water from washing must be getting trapped by the foam padding. Everything will be brushed down and coated with ACF50 prior to reassembly.

Any way, the belt was mint, as were the pulley faces. The variator internals were horrible though for a mere 4,000 miles. The rollers with filthy, and there was evidence of pitting and scoring on the ramps on the sliding pulley half. I've cleaned as best I can and reassembled with the sliders. Front pulley reassembled and bolt lube, fitted and torqued. It's necessary to seat the belt properly by running the bolt down, then turning the pulley a couple of times, then running the bolt down to take up the slack, revolve, run down, etc etc. Until the bolt bottoms out. Then torque as instructed.

Just waiting to fully assembly now.

Ok, results of the speed trials are in, this time based on two-way averages conducted due up-wind and due down-wind, since it was a very windy day today. To give you an idea how windy, the 0-90mph time was 13.95 seconds downwind, but 21.2 seconds up wind! Note: the original times were only one-way, but I would add that it was a calm evening and there was little if any wind. Another point to note is that my original 0-50/60/70/80 speed rolls were done from a 'drag' start where I bought the rpms up to about 3,000 before releasing the brakes. The 22g slider run was done in a hurry due to traffic approaching, and I didn't have time to faff trying to bring the revs up etc.

Speed Trial: Stock: 22g Dr Pulleys:
40-80mph------8.60s-----8.77s
00-50mph------5.15s-----4.93s
....-60mph------6.93s-----6.78s
....-70mph------9.44s-----9.03s
....-80mph------12.22s----12.13s
....-90mph------15.79s----17.57s

I did also get a couple of rpm figures:
During full-throttle acceleration below 60mph the rpms are around 5,750.
At 75mph they are around 5,400rpm.

Summary:
With hindsight I should have liked to have done some more testing for lower speed acceleration (0-30 and 0-40 for example) as here the bike really does seem to jump forwards. At lower speeds the 22g slider do give a slight improvements (approximately 5m lead at 50-60mph speeds) over the stock rollers, even with the original figures having been taking from a 'drag' start. At higher speeds the acceleration times are actually slightly worse. This is particularly noticeable with the important 40-80mph roll on which is a good simulation of a typical overtaking manoeuvre. This may be partly due to the climatic conditions today playing with the figures despite me doing a two-way average.

I suspect though it's more to do with the way that the rollers are designed to function. Maximum initial acceleration but with reduced cruising rpms. That changeover seems to happen around 70mph, which for me is ideal. I further suspect that absolute top speed may well be improved, since at my previous 105mph the rpms were around or past 8,000rpm, which is well past peak power and well into the down-slope of the power curve. If the sliders drop the rpms at a given speed from say 8,000rpm to 7,000rpm, the max available power will increase from 38hp to 41hp! (Source: Arrow exhausts dyno printout for the stock engine).

From my very limited run with these slider (about 4 miles when doing the speed tests) they do seem a fair bit more eager at sub-60mph speeds, and the reduction in cruise rpms should be good at higher speeds. I'm surprised how 'practical' the transformation is considering these are such light 22g sliders compared to stock 28g rollers. Going to 22g rollers would have been much more compromising in the real world I feel. Overall, I'm very pleased.

Gavinfdavies,

Thank you for your valuable information, I have copied this and will place it into my Silverwing ledger. I know how much time and energy goes into this kind of research, Thanks again.

Happy motoring Lloyd.

Gavinfdavies, Thank You for the time and effort put into this. I have 26g sliders in mine so how about taking your SWing apart again and putting in 26ers so I can know what mine is going to do... Sorry, I couldn't help myself. It probably wouldn't do any good anyhow seeing as I have a trike kit on mine.

WOW!!! Now there's an idea! How about...... LOL

Hi Gavin.
When you have a bit on time could you do a rev's at constant speed list please, 30,40,50,60,70 would be excellent , cheers bud

At an indicated 70mph., my wing is on 5000rpm. with 25gm Dr Pulley sliders installed. I also have a Gates belt fitted which may also affect things as it's slightly different profile (wider) to the Honda original.

0-60 etc. times are pointless 'cos I'm a 6'3" fat b**&^%d

Note that the OP requests info about Dr Pulley Slide Pieces while most responses here refer to Dr Pulley sliding weights.  Here is an earlier post from Sidewinder Pilot which encapsulates his findings using Dr Pulley sliding weights.

PostSubject: Re: Which sliders to order?   Thu 23 Mar 2017 - 14:03

In one respect I agree with John, and that's Honda reliability with stock parts.
Do you want to try to find a part for a racing variator or clutch while on a tour? No!
If it's working for you, don't mess with it!

However, some riders require some tuning of the drive and suspension due to weight loading and road conditions.

Changing weight of rollers or sliders +/- 2-4gr , and/or slightly stronger clutch/contra springs.
This will be all you really need to do to change the response profile of the CVT, anything else will effect reliability and parts availability, plus they are the cheapest of the tuning mods.  

Also, tuning the ergonomics to fit rider stature and weight.
Installing a different windshield if you are unhappy with the airfow around you and the buffeting, different handgrips, possibly heated, if you need such things and a Corbin or Russell saddle if you have a big arse.
If you need back support and/or ride feet forward you might want a backrest too.

When I put in my 26g sliders I made some before and after measurements.
I used a g-force app and a set distance marked with a poll.

I made about 10 runs for each measurement, and averaged them.

Before;
Peak g-force acceleration in 0-60 run was .25g, occurring in the 25-45mph range
Peak speed at set distance was 60mph
GPS speed at 4000 rpm was 50mph
GPS speed at 5000 rpm was 60mph
GPS speed at 6000 rpm was 70mph

After;
Peak g-force acceleration in 0-60 run was .36g, occurring in the 25-45mph range
Peak speed at set distance was 60mph
GPS speed at 4000 rpm was 50mph
GPS speed at 5000 rpm was 65mph
GPS speed at 6000 rpm was 75mph


My seat of the pants and in-traffic observations were that I had better performance in the type of city traffic we have where I live, with posted limits 30- 45 and prevailing speeds of 35-60.

Peak torque at freeway merge speeds here are compromised as in peak torque was achived on the ramp, and not in the traffic flow, which is rather high around here arount 85-90 mph! However, the effect was not dramatic and I did not do measurments.

MPG remained at 50+/-3, depending on right wrist and speed.

Remember, any engineering decision is a compromise, if it were not we'd call it magic!
Honda designed the SW to be a great scoot for an average rider, unfortunately a lot of us are not "average".

Every change you make will effect at least one other system or parameter, sometimes negatively, and sometimes catastrophically so.

_________________

Fair point Tim, I did kinda thread-jack there, but one thing lead to another!

So my new knowledge from fitting my own bits would be to agree with most of the others! I would add that I found the new bits excessively tight, so I relieved them a little to give a snug but sliding fit with hand pressure. Originally I needed to lean onto the assembly to get the ramp plate to shift, which did not seem right.

The Bern wrote:

Hi Gavin.
When you have a bit on time could you do a rev's at constant speed list please, 30,40,50,60,70 would be excellent , cheers bud

Sure, the only reason I haven't as yet is because I've only taken the bike out once so far, and that was just to do the acceleration trials.

It's just too wet and miserable still to drag out the wing, as it's a bit of a handful around wet dieselly roundabouts on a summer tyre! My 3 wheeler is still on it's Heidenau winter K68s, so it's grips like the brown stuff to a blanket, hence I use that instead.

Cosmic_Jumper wrote:

Note that the OP requests info about Dr Pulley Slide Pieces while most responses here refer to Dr Pulley sliding weights.

Would it be best if I extracted all my 22g slider build & performance info, and put it into a new standalone thread?

Flyingpanman wrote:

At an indicated 70mph., my wing is on 5000rpm. with 25gm Dr Pulley sliders installed. I also have a Gates belt fitted which may also affect things as it's slightly different profile (wider) to the Honda original.

0-60 etc. times are pointless 'cos I'm a 6'3" fat b**&^%d  

Interesting. Gates belt is wider.

22G sliders and that belt might be a good combination for acceleration and fuel mileage.

No, we're good here.

Gates Belt discussed here before. Did some searching early 2016 .
wemoto UK site will ship it to US. Current $152.95 - 20% VAT plus shipping...?

Better belt I don't know? If its wider it would affect pulley ratio at all speeds so even with lighter sliders its hard to say if ratio would be better for faster acceleration.

Not sure how to quote a post from a search.

I don't know if the actual working surfaces on my Gates belt are wider as my original was worn somewhat. The cross section is more of a triangular shape with less "chamfer" on the outer, or top, edges. I would say the contact areas on both sides are probably greater?

I was in a bit of a hurry when I fitted it, so didn't have time to take photos or measurements.

I can tell you that it works very well, is cheaper (bought in UK), and I have had no belt slap. In combination with the 25g Dr. Pulley sliders, I now have a smooth and quick accelerating machine.