How Do You Know When To Hold, Raise or Fold 'em?

Long run up for context.  Need your opinions.  

I have a 2005 SW with approx. 29,000 km. on the clock.  Runs well mechanically.  PO scraped both sides and I have all the panels assembled to do a thorough repair job.  Also has a major service coming up (belt, oil, filters etc.) but I already have all the bits for that.  I do not like the painted dash deck of the pre '07s and much prefer the raise, black cubby doors.  In fact, I have all the panels  to make that conversion too.  I could hold onto this scoot and just keep riding it.  

A 2009 SW caught my eye about 8 hours away.  They're asking CDN$2500 with only 5,000 km on the clock.  Senior ... gave up riding.  Not perfect (has scratches) but not nearly as banged up as mine and could be easily repaired (painted, buffed etc.).  Being a 2009, it already has the black, raised cubby doors dash deck.  It's a very, very good price for what it is.  In fact, I could probably do a quick fix up on my scoot's tupperware, sell mine and buy this one for almost even money in my market.  Maybe I raise the bidding and jump on this opportunity?

As luck has it, a 2014 Yamaha TMax crossed my radar with only 1,200 km on it.  They're asking almost CDN$8,000 but based on my conversation with this fella, I believe he'd let it go for low CDN$6,000's.  It was his F-I-L's and now that he owns and has ridden it, he doesn't particularly like it.  The TMax 530 has always been a bit of a "dream scoot" of mine to own.  Rode one a couple of years ago and was really impressed with how it handled the more technical roads.  Maybe I should fold and go for this deal?

Money will be a bit of an issue if I decide to move on the TMax although I have a reserve set aside which would comfortably cover it.  This will likely be my last scooter and regardless of which way I go, I know I can make any one of them last through to my riding sunset.  BTW - I've never felt 100% comfortable in the SW's saddle but it is not so uncomfortable that I've felt compelled to do anything about it.  i.e. Corbin seat

Your thoughts on the above?

"The TMax 530 has always been a bit of a "dream scoot" of mine to own."

And there you go.

My 2 Cents.
The SWing costs less and doesn't have that many more miles on it. You know what the SWing can and will do. I've never had any contact with that Yamaha although I did have a 1980 850 with a shaft drive that my wife and I rode to FL one year. It was a good bike.
With the money you'd save buying the SWing you could put into fixing up your SWing then sell it if you wanted. My 08 SWing has just over 32 K miles on it and still runs like a charm. I've talked to others who've had over 80+ K miles on theirs and still ride the heck out of them.
Decisions. Decisions. It's up to you whether or not you want to stick with the SWing or go to a different Scoot. If it was my decision I'd go with the SWing. But then that's me.

I've always lusted after a Tmax but could never find one that wasnt wreaked in some way, shape or forum. Then, I found a mint one and upon very close inspection I found head-stock damage. If you find a minter and its looks honest (check it over as best as you can for crash damage), then go for it!

If you feel that this next one will be your last then you might want to look toward long term cost of operation.

You know the Silverwing is easy to maintain. How about the T-Max? Well actually there a guy, "BigWheelsTurning" who has several T-Max videos on YouTube. HTH
https://m.youtube.com/user/bigwheelsturning?itct=CIkBEOqeBCITCL2YqsK6u-MCFQyznAodDi0KrQ%3D%3D&csn=xNEuXfawE8eM8gTBrLOYDQ&wlfg=true

Tim

I had new TMAX----liked it, real nice performance, nice sound....fun to ride, but as the miles piled up sold it as I thought rather complicated drive system, etc was going to be expensive to maintain.

Think it was kind of a sales flop in US.

In my group of riders I am known for being frugal, or a cheapskate, and I'm proud of it. I like my fun but don't want to pay thru the nose for it.
Now, it seems you have all the necessary parts to make your 2005 as good as new. The 2009 is a VERY attractively priced bike too. I'd jump on that one and save the hankering after the TMax for some other time. That's my 2 cents !
You'll be busy enough getting acquainted to the 2009, and working on your 2005, no time for TMax !

Jay.

I have now owned 2 Swings and would go on to another if I get the chance. I trust them to just keep going.
On my SA scooter forum there were a couple of T Max owners who seemed to have endless major troubles with their scoots. I'm openly biased - I know what I would choose without second thought - get the newer Swing!

Well thanks all for taking the time to post. Opinions cover the spectrum ... to be expected I guess. After sleeping on it I am leaning towards grabbing the low mileage '09 and then fixing and selling mine.

I don't know much about the TMax's medium to long term reliability and robustness but I'm not finding a whole lot of negative posts about them on the innerweb ... at least not on this side of the pond. I know they changed the final drive system to belt driven from a chain through enclosed oil bath system which is a good thing for maintenance.

With either SW, I know what I have and they serve my needs and most of my wants just fine. And as stated by several, they are relatively easy to service and maintain if I'm so inclined which I am. Here's a twist from this morning, SWMBO suggested buying both the '09 SW AND the TMax, and once I have all three scoots in front of me and a few miles on the two newly acquired ones, decide which one(s) to keep and/or sell. This is predicated on the idea that since they are for sale in rather isolated places, I can buy for low(er) prices and sell higher in our urban community. There is some logic here.

I'll let you know which direction I take.

"After sleeping on it I am leaning towards grabbing the low mileage '09 and then fixing and selling mine."

While I'm a big proponent of following dreams, sticking with a Silver Wing makes all kinds of sense. It's reliable, easy to maintain, cheap to keep for a long time. Sounds like you're moving in the right direction.

My dream scooter is the BMW C650GT. There's so much I love ... current technology ... sleek design ... 17" tires with the ride and sound of a serious motorcycle ... it's German (both sides of my family) ... but in the end, practicality keeps winning. The BMW is way more expensive to maintain. And I believe you have to actually remove tupperware to check the oil! That's just dumb.

I sold a beautiful Burgman 650 because the spectre of belt failure kept me up at night. The belt is buried so far in the bike that it takes thousands of dollars to install a new one. Who needs that angst? Plus, while the B650 is the world's best highway cruiser, it handles like a bathtub at lower speeds, running around doing errands -- and I do that a lot.

The BMW keeps calling my name. The Silver Wing just keeps going, day after day.

I rode the latest version of the BMW C650 GT round a a circuit of rural roads on a BMW Motorrad Test Day last September in the company of a couple of dozen riders on assorted BMW sports, tourers, and adventure bikes.

The ride was quite fast paced and lasted around 40 minutes, I found the C650 GT completely underwhelming. It was heavy, the electric screen was rubbish whatever height it was set to, and the indicator lights on the dash were nigh on invisible in use.

The weather at the time of the ride was cold and blustery, and it had started to drizzle. So that showed up another of the C650 GT's flaws, it's wind and weather protection were well below that of my Silver Wing. That was evident later when I later rode back to York in similar conditions, the Honda was a little bubble of tranquility in comparison.

Though that still didn't stop me getting rid of the bubble of tranquility a month later for the Forza.

"I found the C650 GT completely underwhelming. It was heavy, the electric screen was rubbish ...  and the indicator lights on the dash were nigh on invisible in use ... it's wind and weather protection were well below that of my Silver Wing."

What?! How dare you, sir, impose your truthful reality upon my wistful daydream!

Just joshing ... those are interesting observations. The two test rides I had with the BMW 650 were both exhilarating. I think it's the 17" tires and the "throaty growl." I felt at all times like I was RIDING. While my Wing has excellent acceleration, especially with 24-gram Dr. Pulley weights, most of the time I feel like I'm a caretaker of the ride.

As for the elements, that's not a factor for me. We don't have much bad weather in South Florida (barring the occasional Cat 5 hurricane that devastates the landscape). I only ride in rain when I'm caught in it, and then as briefly as possible. I like rain on a motorcycle about as much as a cat likes being tossed into a filled bathtub.

The Forza is interesting. I sat on it twice and it feels good. That may be my eventual ride as I get older and shift to a lighter bike that still offers most of the maxi-scooter experience (with updated technology).

Since when does BMW scooter have 17 inch wheels?

"Since when does BMW scooter have 17 inch wheels?"

Apparently, only in my head. I just checked and the BMW 650 GT has 15" wheels, so I stand corrected. I guess they just felt like 17" when I rode it.

I had a 2013 BMW c 600 sport, totally agree with Meldrew, Silverwing is much, much better. IMO Paul

Newer stuff is great but I don't care who makes it the quality is taking a downward slope. Nothing is really made to last anymore.

Tech. and goodies are nice but at what price? Parts and shop prices are very high. Honda not so bad for SW. parts BMW Big Money Wilhelm. Yamaha T-max does have a more complicated drive and parts are not cheap either. Valve adjustment is a weekend project at best.

I've had some problems with SW but most don't except with abuse or age.

Great comments, per usual.

"Newer stuff is great but I don't care who makes it the quality is taking a downward slope. Nothing is really made to last anymore."

Gotta disagree a little. Many of us are old enough to remember when it was a commonly held view that American cars were designed to last three years; they would need major repairs around the same time the payments ran out. I have a 2013 Toyota Prius with 79,000 miles and the only thing I've done is change the oil every 10k miles, along with the wearables (wipers, air/cabin filters, tires) and coolant and brake fluid recently -- and they weren't even due for 20k miles. The Prius is used as a taxi. I might reach a quarter of a million miles without issues. It's as reliable as my Wing AND it gets better mileage.

BMW did a major update to the 650 GT's drivetrain, CVT and exhaust in 2016. Apparently it was a game changer.

"Tech. and goodies are nice but at what price? Parts and shop prices are very high. ... BMW Big Money Wilhelm."

Ha, I've heard this as Bring Me your Wallet. The BMW 650 forum proves this true. When things go wrong, it'll cost you. Parts cost more ($400 belt vs $100 for the Wing). They're more difficult to work on if you want to DYI and save $$. On the other hand, I've been surprised how many 650 owners say they never had an issue, other than the scheduled 24,000 mile service that will buckle your knees (ranging from $1,800 to $2,400). For me, the lure of a BMW 650 is simple. It's having the ride of a serious motorcycle with the comforts of a maxi-scooter.

"I've had some problems with SW but most don't except with abuse or age."

I'm in the "most" category, currently on my third Silver Wing and not a whiff of an issue. That's the main reason I still ride one. I started my Wing one morning outside a Starbucks in downtown Delray Beach as a guy walked by and he smiled and said, "I know that sound. That's a Honda. They start every time."

"BMW Big Money Wilhelm."
"Bring Me your Wallet"

No, it's "Break My Wallet."

When I had my BMW scoot the techs did not like working on them. Silverwing seems much more agile, flickable, lighter, even though it's not, I believe the center of gravity is much better. I would really like to sell my 2014 BMW f800 gt and buy a 1982 Honda gl 500. One more thing, BMWs', why does one have to modify them to fit? Bar risers, footpeg relocation, wind screens suck. When I sit on any Honda, it feels right. My two cents worth, Paul

To close the loop.  I thought long and hard about my options and about priorities ... and I then added "my realities" to the mix.  As much as I desire to ride a T-Max, we just don't the riding roads, anywhere near where we're from, to fully maximize and enjoy the T-Max's sportbike-like capabilities.  I determined we're more daily commute/weekend sport/touring type riders with the occasional "Appalachian" adrenaline rush thrown in when we get together with our friends south of the border.  

So, I passed on the T-Max and picked up the '09 Silver Wing.  At only 4,900 km (about 3,000 miles),  mechanically it is in good shape and runs very well.  Cosmetically, it needs some attention (not as much as mine though) but I've got the replacement parts already and the time/expertise to fix it before selling my existing, higher mileage '05 SW.  

Thanks all for your input.  It truly helped to guide my decision making process.  Hope to see some of you at the Maxi-Scooter Meet-Up in Otsego Lake NY in September.

http://maxi-scoots.com/scoot/index.php?topic=9504.0

The new breed of 300cc maxi scooters are the way to go, the days when the Silver Wing and Burgman 650 were the two head honchos ruling the maxi scooter roost have long gone. Even the TMax for all it's 'motorcycle like handling' is now an over complicated and fly-by-wire parody of the original Mk 1.

Looking back, the motorcycle or sports bike like handling of the early TMax's where phrases dreamed up by bike journo's for the original owners, who here in the UK mostly didn't have full licences to ride geared motorcycles anyway.

Trust me, any 300 maxi scooter that has comparable performance to the Silver Wing, better fuel economy and range, weighs 140 pounds less, and has all the latest bells and whistles technology wise is well worth having. Whether it's a Honda, Yamaha, Kymco, or SYM, they all deserve a closer look.

Don't get many 300 cc scooters in the True North as generally, we have not embraced scooters. Honda Forza was imported into Canada for a couple of years then they dropped it. No up take. We did own a Honda Reflex for a few years and for city duty, it was just fine. Away from the city, it's size and lack of power became glaringly evident. Stepping up to the Burgman 400 fixed all of that.

Personally, I like the SW's available power and solid road feel due to its motorcycle-like weight. And 300 kms to a tank suits me just fine as gas stations are a plenty here and I usually welcome a bit of a break after riding through a tank full anyway. The strong pulling power of the SW is especially appreciated when riding in the hills or mountains which is, unfortunately, far too rare an occurrence for us.

When riding our super slabs (google Highway 401 Ontario for context), if you're not able to do a consistent 120 kph and have reserve power to move quickly when needed, then you better not be on those multi lane highways. (pretty hard to avoid as they connect many of the major cities where I live). Also, many drivers don't accept or respect MC/scooter riders over here. Maybe because we're only around for 6 months of the year (no winter riding) and then disappear causing an annual, too easily forgotten learning curve.

Generally, I like the simplicity of older things and machines and the fact you can work on them yourself too ... not loaded with all the electrickity, software controlled nannies and digital crap found on many of today's "modern" vehicles. I keep my vehicles in good shape and being able to do it myself, where possible, is important to me.

That's one of the reasons why I drive a 7,500 lbs., coal rolling, 500 lb/ft torque 2001 pickup truck that'll carries our 3,500 lb. truck camper and pulls another 3,500 lb. of our scoots and camping gear. It's simple, powerful and following the Service Manual, I can also work on it with basic tools and use a simple diagnostic app to pull any trouble codes from it's simple ECM if needed. Just like my SW.

One size does not fit all ... to each their own. Trust me.

"Personally, I like the SW's available power and solid road feel due to its motorcycle-like weight ... When riding our super slabs (google Highway 401 Ontario for context), if you're not able to do a consistent 120 kph and have reserve power to move quickly when needed, then you better not be on those multi lane highways."

I second that emotion. Not sure I'd feel confident on a 300cc bike in South Florida (279cc with a Forza, or 303cc less than a Silver Wing).

Down here, with dense population and numerous roads with 3 to 5 lanes in each direction, traffic moves fast and frenetically. I like having the power to keep up, get out of the way, or stay away from cars every chance I get.

And yep, Canadians do like to step on the gas pedal. The only time I topped 100 mph in in my former car ride, a VW Cabrio convertible, was on the QEW (Queen Elizabeth Way, a super slab) coming back from Toronto to Rochester NY. Even at that speed, I had several cars pass me like I was on a leisurely Sunday drive.

Yup ... depending on the time of day/night, the QEW is where you go to test your technical driving skills (or patience if it's during rush hours) for sure. I am familiar with the Suncoast highway and a few others and you have to keep your wits about you on those too.

In Canada, we have two seasons ... winter and construction. What do you have in Florida? ... construction and more construction? .... lol

"In Canada, we have two seasons ... winter and construction. What do you have in Florida? ... construction and more construction? .... lol"

We have two seasons in South Florida: Hot and Less Hot.

In summer, I rarely ride during the day. It's reliably 88 to 91 degrees (31/32C) with a "feels like" temp in the upper 90's or higher. Nights are agreeable, consistently 78 (25C) and clear, but dependably humid.

Last night I rode 20 miles north on US-1 to cruise around downtown Palm Beach, then returned on A1A along the ocean, past PB's high-end shops, restaurants, art galleries and homes of the uber-rich (including Mar-a-Lago). There was a full moon and a nice breeze from the sea. I might repeat that ride tonight.

Too much wildlife at night for me, deer rampant in Iowa!

Bash On! wrote:

"BMW Big Money Wilhelm."
"Bring Me your Wallet"

No, it's "Break My Wallet."

Oh yeah.  That's good.    

The Gambler   Don't forget Know when to walk away know when to run.

Delray get your CVT fluid changed. Prius    Drain and fill fluid wears out .

"Too much wildlife at night for me, deer rampant in Iowa!"

Deer terrified me riding at night up north. And I know they're WAY bigger in Iowa than upstate New York. It's relaxing to ride in the countryside at night in South Florida because we have no deer (or potholes). I did ride by a 10-foot alligator on a sidewalk one night. That'll generate a fast double-take.

"Delray get your CVT fluid changed. Prius   Drain and fill fluid wears out."

I respect your mechanical aptitude enough to check this out. Toyota recommends 100k and check every 30k, which I have done.

I have $161 credit at my Toyota dealer because I raised the roof after their service tech told me I was overdue for an inverter coolant change (inverter coolant is a separate system for the big Prius battery). He said it was due at 50k and I was at 70k, so I agreed to the work. Then I checked Toyota specs and learned the recommendation was 100k. So the tech either was wrong or looked me in the eyes and lied. Either way, outraged Google reviews work wonders! I'm due for an oil change in 600 miles at 80k. I will have my regular coolant changed with the credit and maybe some will go for transmission fluid. Thanks for the heads up.

Most coolant also has a rec. time for changing not just mileage. Inverter coolant cools the electric motor and electronics system is a/c -d/c. Battery pack is back in hatch floor Very high voltage 144 or so.
12 volt battery also there right side all the way back.

Trans fluid will be dark the first time seems to stay cleaner after first change.

I worked for Toyota for two years BUT I have much more Honda knowledge. Wrenching 30 plus years now.

Russ start a new topic on your problem with oil dipstick.    Someone will have the answer.
No way to check it or fill it is a problem.  Several members have trike kits. Photo will help.

Admin edit: Russ Wristen's post re a trike kit obstructing the dipstick has been split to its own topic.

"Trans fluid will be dark the first time seems to stay cleaner after first change ... I worked for Toyota for two years ... Wrenching 30 plus years now."

I'll take your recommendation and get it changed with my oil and coolant. Can't hurt. I'm thinking I'd like to keep the car for the long run.

Thanks for pointing that out.