Might have bought the wrong SWing.

Hi, Thanks for letting me join your forum. It has been a great resource for info on this scooter.

I don't know really why I bought this one, except I possibly believed, after lots of reading, these things were fairly indestructible and I could fix any the cosmetic issues.

My background is a 2002 Reflex (NSS250) which I love, but not really appropriate for the freeway. It looks, runs and handles great. But I wanted something I could do an occasional (winter) to frequent (summer) commute to work, which involves about 10 freeway miles each way.

I was looking at an '08 Silver Wing with about 20k miles on it at a Honda dealer up the road for $3k. It is very clean and sounds good, but I didn't drive it.

The one I got is a 2008 (non ABS) with about 15k miles. I looked at this one, drove it, checked fluids and it all seemed OK. It had some body issues, the windshield was a bit rough and a rip in the backrest, so I offered the guy $2K which he accepted.

I put on a new backrest, GIVI windshield, changed the oil and filter and a new exhaust pipe (I found one tube was a bit squished). I should have looked underneath better before I bought it. The bottom showed it had seen some trauma. I have new floor skirt panels for both sides, just came today. There were a few broken tabs on the faring, but a new one is cost prohibitive. It is pretty solid now via some strategic cable ties. I also put on a new dash panel. I also removed a couple wheel weights and installed "Counteract" beads as I am a firm believer. The tires look new (Dunlop Scootsmart).

It is fairly solid now. The full commute ride initially seemed fine, maybe just a bit harsh.

After doing a lot of reading on this forum, I decided to try the "wobble" test. Sure enough, quite noticeable wobble when removing hands from the bars. With either hand, even lightly on the bar, no wobble.

Today I drove a '03 with and tried the wobble test. There was none. There was quite a bit of plastic vibration, but the body itself was very clean. I noticed this one seemed to handle better than mine. Couldn't really place my finger on anything in particular, just seemed easier to drive. It also seemed to be a little peppier and the motor sounds a bit "smoother". I love the red color. It does look like it needs new tires. However, I think his asking price is a bit high, and I don't think he is willing to budge on it, at least not enough to make a difference.

The 08 up the road is still available, but I didn't get up there to try it today like I planned.

I realize I should have tried these others BEFORE buying one, but sometimes I seem to do things backwards.

So, I want to do the steering head bearings but it sounds very intimidating. How do you tell if it needs adjustment, or a full replacement? It doesn't seem to be cost effective to have it done at a shop. But welding and fabricating custom tools is above my pay grade.

What do you guys think I should do first to improve the performance? I thought I would replace the plugs and maybe a Seafoam treatment followed by another fluid change. What else?

I am wondering about cutting my losses and looking for one that has been treated better. Then again, this one doesn't seem that far off from being a good bike now. Maybe I should suck it up and deal with it.

Sorry, rambling. Any comments from you more experienced folks would be appreciated.

Check the year of manufacture on the tires. Looking new and being new are 2 different things. I prefer old school weights installed by someone who knows what their doing. If the tires are new(er), the tire pressure is set correctly and the bar end weights are good it could be headset bearings. Put the scooter on its center stand, rock it back so the front wheel is off the ground and feel for any grab on the bars, or play in the bars and the flopping side to side should be smooth and fluid. Headset bearings are not that hard but getting the tension correct on the headset bolts requires patience and good tools. I've done many headsets and I still hate it.

You might also wan't to change the fork oil. That's much easier for a DIY job. Sloppy fork rebound can sometimes cause front end stability issues as well.

You were right about the tires. 2013. That makes them 9 years old. No checking, lots of tread.  So... Recomendations?

Ok, so don't laugh. I put leds on the forks. They are bright as all hell, but could be contributing to the wobble. I am thinking just taking them off.

Yes, the bar end weights were an issue. One was missing. I ordered one, and it came in today, but I borrowed one off the Reflex in the meantime. They were the same.

Well, I found out why one was missing. The bolt was broken off. So I was drilling it out and the drill bit broke. My hand moved forward on the break and jammed the broken bit into my finger. Ouch. Swelled up like a pickle. This bike loves to hurt me.

Managed to get an end weight screwed on by screwing into the mess inside the handlebars. It has been holding, but finally got the reverse drill bits (Irwin) to try to clean it all out. Then tap a new screw hole and put the weight in right. Not sure if it will make a difference though...

The wobble you describe sounds like wobble and weave (it's down to the laws of physics, lots of good stuff on Google explaining it).
If the bike wobbles with a hand or two on the bars you have a  different problem.
I wouldn't start throwing money trying to cure the incurable.

Those lights down there aren't a good idea though for all sorts of reasons. Expect them to create problems at higher speeds and or windy conditions - even with hand on the bars and an open throttle.

Yes thank you. I have been reading a lot about it. I just felt like I had more confidence on the 03. The way it handled. I read a lot about it, on the Goldwing forums. Apparently they share the same steering head bearings as The Silver Wing.

Today I'm going to install the exhaust, the new side panels, and remove the LEDs that I added. Then I'll look into plugs and maybe some seafoam. Also the fork oil mentioned above.

Last night I raised the front end 2 check the bearings. It seemed really smooth all the way through. Didn't fall to either side and pretty much just stayed wherever I put it. At one point in the rotation say about 1 o clock, it would move about an inch to the left. The brakes are on the left, this one doesn't have abs. I didn't feel any bumps, notches, rough spots or play.

Any recommendations 4 tires? These are 9 years old now, and I know rubber does not last forever. I had to change the tires on my truck after 12 years. They had plenty of tread left, and the vehicle is always kept in the garage, but the old tires just didn't have any grip. The new tires where a night and day difference.

This is my Honda Reflex. ('02, NSS250). Amazing little scooter. Quick and agile. Love this thing, but I may sell it to make room in the garage.

Mine had the wobble from new really didn't change much with any tire and I tried a few different brands.
I've been using some Metzler's and they are good tires.

Here is what not to buy and it's for sale at a dealer close to me for $2900. 2006 with 46K

New tyres are always a revelation; your old ones will be a bit age-hardened and the profiles are likely flatter. New tyres with a steeper, rounder profile might well cure some/all of the wobbles. Stay with stock sizes and known brands e.g. Bridgestone, Michelin, Metzeler.

The other wearing items are the bushings within the forks that the parts slide on. There's a bit more disassembly to replace these but that will also restore some of the "new" feel.

Thanks Terry,

I think I will replace the tires. I noticed I have Michelin on the Reflex so I will likely go that route. The price differences are minimal, so might as well get a good brand. You want every advantage when it comes to shooting down the freeway at 70 (mph). A tire failure could actually be fatal.

The other guy came down to $2,800 for his '03. Not a bad price, I offered $2,400. It needs tires and the plastics buzz like crazy. That's an all day job pealing it all off and snugging everything up. i'm old

I am thinking I'm keeping this one and working out the bugs. The new exhaust looks great and the new body panels are nice. Pretty good deal for $50 a piece shipped as they are fairly large panels. They will help me snug up the lower front end a little better as most of the clip posts are broken on the old ones.

The 08 up north for $3k is absolutely cherry. It does have 32k miles on it, so not sure what maintenance might be needed at that point, but it looks very well cared for.   Still nags at me. And it's still not out of the question to "acquire" that one and sell this one. Or maybe keep both? They are not available anymore in the States so a backup for parts and/or major component failure may not be a bad option.

Drove the Reflex today and that thing is a blast. Got it up to 60 (mph) uphill, against the wind with my fat ass and a top box full of stuff.

Tired of them stealing an hour from me every year and not giving it back until fall. Oh well.

Got all these Swing screws nuts and bolts off ebay for about $15. Let me know if you need something. I'll send it to you.

OMG Mech 1, that's an ugly one. Can't believe a dealer is trying to off that.

In contrast over this side of the Pond, a Honda dealership about 50 miles away from me in East Yorkshire is selling a 2016 Silver Wing. Mileage 4434, blue, with heated grips and a Honda top box. Price £5249 in proper money or US $6848.

It might have been seized from one of those Russian oligarchs.

Hi Dude. There's a topic on this forum regarding 'hoarding'. Where were you?

I moved the auxiliary lights from the front fender to the fairing. I also installed LEDs for high and low beams. Extreamly pleased with the results. The LEDs are a lot brighter and look more modern.

I read a lot of tire comments on this site and reviews on other sites. Wow that "Radial" thread was interesting.  

Based mostly on availability, and positive reviews, I am pretty much decided on Pirelli Diablo Rosso for front and rear.

Close to $200 (USD) with tax (free shipping), plus whatever it will cost to mount, is not fun. But skimping on tires doesn't seem logical.

TheDude wrote:

Based mostly on availability, and positive reviews, I am pretty much decided on Pirelli Diablo Rosso for front and rear. .

My 2018 Forza 300 has the similar Pirelli Diablo tyres as OE. In all weather conditions and out on the open road, the Diablos are way better than the Bridgestone Hoops I've liked and had as OE tyres on all my previous maxi scooters.

Seems as if you are on the way to keeping the current Swing. Maybe you are a little spoiled by that neat little Reflex. Love the additional lights on your Swing. And 15,000 miles is not a lot. You may have retrieved a somewhat neglected Swing that just needs a little TLC. Looking better every day!

bikehiker wrote:

Seems as if you are on the way to keeping  the current Swing. Maybe you are a little spoiled by that neat little Reflex.  Love the additional lights on your Swing.  And 15,000 miles is not a lot.  You may have retrieved a somewhat neglected Swing that just needs a little TLC. Looking better every day!  

Thanks Bike,

Yes, baring any more as yet undiscovered issues, looks like I'll be holding on to this one. Yes, it seems to have had a tough 15k, but I have seen worse! Since I got it for $2k (USD) I figure I can put a few bucks into it and not be upside down. The motor sounds pretty good now, It did have some recent brakes and the body is tight so just need to smooth out the ride a bit and I'll be a happy camper.

If it's still around, I may head up north this weekend just to drive the other one. If for nothing else just to compare.

Now if it would just quit RAINING!

Hi Dude. My 08 SWing sat under a tarp for two years before I bought it from my sister in FL. It needed quite a bit of TLC once I trailered it home but it's served me well since 2014 when I got it. It's now a trike which I also love. I had a Motor Trike kit on it and have no regrets. I've lost about 5 mpg on the highway and a fair amount in town with stop and go riding but still I'm very happy with it.

Dale N. wrote:

Hi Dude. My 08 SWing sat under a tarp for two years before I bought it from my sister in FL. It needed quite a bit of TLC once I trailered it home but it's served me well since 2014 when I got it. It's now a trike which I also love. I had a Motor Trike kit on it and have no regrets. I've lost about 5 mpg on the highway and a fair amount in town with stop and go riding but still I'm very happy with it.

That's awesome Dale! Is there a thread on your trike build? I'd love to see it. I have been considering eventually going that route myself.

I was hoping to put this on a rack behind the RV, to avoid towing in the short term, and although I know of people who have done it, I think it might simply be to heavy for for that. That application may be a good excuse to hold on to the Reflex.

I previously had a 150cc Kymco I used for that, but occasionally found myself on a highway. The 150 just barely kept up. The 250 might be the perfect solution for the camping issue. That would free up the SWing for some possible tinkering of the three wheel variety.

This is what my SWing looks like now.
The kit was purchased from https://www.motortrike.com// and it's the GT3 kit. It cost a total of about $8,000 which covered the cost of making the kit, shipping it to the dealer who put it on and the dealer's cost for the labor. I got all my original parts back and the dealer even delivered it during the winter when it was finished.
Motor Trike has you put in your zip code and they will let you know which dealers in your area they qualify to do the work.

I chose the Motor Trike kit due to the fact that there's only the two trike wheels in the back. Some kits use the original back tire to drive the SWing and the two extra kit wheels are like "kids training wheels on their bicycles" so to speak. I've heard some say that if you're on a dirt road, or something like that, and the middle drive wheel goes over a pothole you have no movement and have to get off and push the SWing over the pothole. That's just what I've heard. No personal experience with that or haven't seen it either.

One more thing I almost forgot. I was told by a member who also got this kit to have them put on a 4 degree rake kit also. He said it handles better that way. I had that done and haven't had any handling problems. I really like this kit.

That's awesome Dale. I will get a quote. Hopefully I can save a little bit of money if I can do some of the work myself.

Yes, I agree about the kits that use original drive wheel! I don't like those at all.

The Trike conversion, if it happens at all, will be down the road. The "real" kits are quite spendy.

In the meantime, having fun fixing this one up. Got the official touch-up paint kit so working on sprucing it up a bit. The new, lower body panels with all their tabs complete give the bike a much more solid feel.

Tow-Pac, or Tow-Crap to those in the know, is the worse kit out there. Terrible customer service and a shoddy quality kit. If it can't handle a Genuine Buddy 125 being ridden by a woman in her 60's then imagine the results on something larger like a Silverwing! But my wife officially quit riding and put her Motor Triked Swing up for consignment. It was fun and fast with all the handling quirks of a trike.

I ordered new tires. Got the Pirelli Diablo Rosso's and got them from my local Honda Powersports dealer. The price was about 10% more, but they have great service so far and I am going to have them install them. So about $450

I am going to have them check out everything, bearings, brakes etc. while they are at it. Might as well. Maybe it will help with the wobble, as it was still there despite moving the lights etc.

Wonder if I should have them do the fork oil while the wheel is off? I am going to check to see how much extra.

Thanks for the input guys. Really appreciate it. This forum I think adds a lot of value to a SWing.

TheDude wrote:

I moved the auxiliary lights from the front fender to the fairing. I also installed LEDs for high and low beams. Extreamly pleased with the results. The LEDs are a lot brighter and look more modern.

Any chance you could share a bit more details. Maybe also a few photos showing how you went about relocating the lights. Really looks good. Thanks.

Benzon1960 wrote:

Any chance you could share a bit more details. Maybe also a few photos showing how you went about relocating the lights. Really looks good. Thanks.

Yes! Absolutely. I will get a couple pictures and an explanation.

So, right now I have the auxiliary lights hooked up to the bright beams. However I have found the low beams severely lacking in brightness, especially in the rain. I think I will use the low-beam tap and just reposition the aux. lights to shine downward a bit more.

It's easy to position the lights, just center stand about 15 feet from the garage door. So low beams, similar to a car, I will put the left aux. light forward and about even height wise with the main low beam. The right will be more to the right and down a bit to help see the shoulder. (for US style, it would be opposite for UK).

Benzon1960 wrote:

TheDude wrote:

I moved the auxiliary lights from the front fender to the fairing. I also installed LEDs for high and low beams. Extreamly pleased with the results. The LEDs are a lot brighter and look more modern.

Any chance you could share a bit more details. Maybe also a few photos showing how you went about relocating the lights. Really looks good. Thanks.

I made a new thread with more details here:

https://www.silverwing600.com/t12567-aux-lights-led#128286

The new (to me) exhaust paint job is holding up well. Got about 100 miles on it since painting so the high temp. paint appears to have "cured" properly.

Got the Pirellis mounted on Sat. OMG, what an improvement! Feels like a different bike. It also seems to have helped quite a bit (but not eliminated) the WoD (Wobble of Death). I have put about 70 miles on them so far and feel comfortable, enthusiastic even, about recommending them.

Edit: They said the bearings are fine and the brakes are +50%. So that increases my confidence in the bike.

Really happy now. Considering selling the Reflex (NSS250) as that would make my wife much happier for some reason.

The wobble problem crops up regularly on here and there could be several reason for it which has already been documented, but if you have a S/wing that wobbles when you take your hand off the handlebars then the easiest way to stop is to keep your hands ON the bars. By the way I have never heard of the wobble test

Sold my Kymco People 200 to a nice young man who's going to use it for "Door Dash". It's interesting that Kymco (Taiwan) makes the engines for the BMW "C" series scooters (C650 Sport and C650 GT).

I have been doing a lot of research and decided the SWing 600 is the best scooter for me out of the "Big Three"; BMW, Burgman and Honda. The reason being the BMW is a bit taller in the saddle and expensive to buy, maintain and operate. It requires premium, and although I use it anyway it's nice to have the option. And it's heavy.

The Burgman is nice, but that big, fat body is a turn-off to me. They also still command a fairly high price. The range is even less than the SWing and at 621 lbs (281.7 kilos) it's likely a tad too heavy for me.

The SWing is sleeker (although not by much ), lighter, comfortable and a bit more agile (reported, never drove the BMW). More suited to my freeway/city commute and weekend back-road wanderings. JMHO.

The SWing is dated however... I REALLY hope they do a re-design, just to modernize it a bit. Doesn't need much, but the back end could use some better styling IMHO. I wish Honda would re-introduce the 600 and make it available in the US. As our cities get more crowded and compact, I can see there could be an increase in interest?

I am interested in the Kymco AK 550. It's light and fast, but very hard to find.... And with the price of new ones topping $10K (USD) I don't think I'll be looking elsewhere anytime soon....

It is with regret I will be far less active in the forum since I am preparing to offer my scooter for sale.

This is one of the best, most valuable forums I have come acoss in a long time. Tons of great information that's easily found. Any Google search term for the Silver Wing will bring you to this highly informative site. And for every registered user, there are far, far more lurkers and casual guests.

I am going to finish my LED thread mainly because I don't want to leave my pal Benzon hanging.

But my lovely wife says it's time to sell the Silver Wing, and I can't argue.

I will have it for a week or so as I wait for Partzilla to send the "right" skirt panel (actually I need the left).

I got this CTX700ND (DCT Automatic Transmission). It's the next step up IMHO, but it's a completely different animal. For one thing, it's really a "hog". It's low growl sounds like a Gold Wing. It's feels more laid back at 3500 rpm at 75 mph.

The driver experience is as different as can be. It's more difficult to "mount and dismount". The convenience of "step through" cannot be overstated. And I used those verbs on purpose. I feel the rider (and in this case, "rider" is more appropriate than "driver") once you get "mounted" is far more integrated on a motorcycle versus a scooter. I usually say "driver" on the scooter because it seems like you are driving, as opposed to being "along for the ride" on a motorcycle.

I am never going to get used to the wind (at high speeds) trying to peal my legs off the motorcycle, so I am going to install crash bars with wind deflectors. Scooter drivers are FAR MORE protected from the elements than a motorcycle (without the benifit of fairings) rider at 70mph. With a tall wind screen and that great front fairing, it's remarkably comfortable driving a SW.

I am also going to install "floorboard" style foot peg accessories as I immediately miss the freedom of foot placement on the SW. This is an incredible benefit. Am I converting the CTX to be more of a scooter? Absolutely.

I am absolutely going to miss my SW. Mostly when I stand on my "bad" leg to lift my right one over the seat, which is every time I ride.

I have already added the hard saddle bags, a Corbin seat and a custom exhaust. I will submit another pic with all the scooter type mods once I get them all delivered and installed for those who are interested.

Hey pal
Saddened by your announcement but equally pleased on your behalf. Moving on is part of life and I wish you all the best of luck in your future endeavors.

Reading your various inputs over the past few months has been an absolute joy and something I shall be missing a lot. I will be replicating your LED setup and that way remind myself of your work and inspiring energy.

Take care out there.

All the best/Benzon

Check front wheel for run out and/or buckle in the rim. Even a slight dent in the rim can cause a imbalance in the wheel and result in a WOD , check out my utube video on my Tmax.

I think the tires on the Tmax are low profile so the rim sits nearer the road surface and hence can result in a ding if you are unlucky and hit a obstacle at the wrong place on the edge of the tire