Engine Oil Leak

Well I do not know where to start as that is difficult for me to be very specific in english. But will try the best. I bought my SW (2001, 100.000 km) couple months ago and did all maintenace that should be done. I change the oil and overfill a little, just was thinking about somethng else :lol!:  After few days aI reconized few oil drops on the floor, so was thinking that must be a hole which take air from crankase and when ovefilling some oil comes out as well. So I lower down the oil lever to the max but oil drops still there, but not every day. I look under my SW and see the drop next to the oil filter (filter and sealing is dry) comming down from somewhere. I dismantle the plastic cover to have the closer look but unfortunately nothing found that could cose any leakage. It is not a big leak but very pissing and without knowing from where it comming out I'm just affraid to have problem when oil suddenly "blows". Need help how to repai it. But first need to know what that may be. I'm working in automotive business and have acces to all products which can revitalize sealant (o-rings etc) and that is one option. But to be hones i'd prefer to repair it by changing damaged parts instead. All ideas warmy welcome!

Your English is just fine.
When you drain the oil from under the engine, there is a metal guard around the oil drain area. Old oil can collect on that guard and slowly drip off. Try to wipe the area inside that oil guard with a rag.If the oil stops dripping, you will have found the problem.
If oil still drips, I can't help any more. I would have to see the engine, which is impossible, as I am a long way from Krakow.   

As Terry (bigbird) said...there is a small platform right next to the oil plug where oil will drip on when you remove the oil plug. Wipe it dry and see if this does the trick. Why they put this platform there was not a good idea but maybe it is some kind of support.

Hi Jeff,

It's a engine protection plate.

I was thinking on the beginning that the problem is some oil (also the engine protection plate) residues in some corners or holes, but unfortunately there is a trace of engine leak from upper side of engine. On the main stand is just few drops on the floor but on side stand is four times more. I see also that the problem is getting evaluate because leak looks bigger. I just come back from a trip like 40 km and did shut few pics to show you guys the problem.

Ups forgot pictures...

following..

and the last one..

Piotr_Poland wrote:

following..

oil leaks can be hard to track down
is the oil washing the dirt off this part or is it just collecting there? WP_20140404_004.jpg
I'd suggest you try spraying suspect areas with powder to highlight them.

If you remove the 'seat under cover' (the black panel which holds the tool pouch) you can get a better look down along side the engine. The seat under cover is a lot easier to deal with if you disconnect the seat strut so that the seat can be fully raised. Or just remove the seat completely. Anyway, removing that stuff will allow you a better perspective of the area.

However, you did seem to indicated that the leak is worse when the scooter is on the side stand. Does the oil leak more over night when parked on the side stand, or when parked on the center stand?

If it leaks more on when on the side stand then you may possibly have a leaking oil pressure switch. I believe that the oil pressure switch is located on the left side behind the belt case/left side swing arm. You may possibly find that by removing the passenger footrest. Good luck

Thanks Cosmic_Jumper. Will check a you advice. The leak is allways on side stand more over the nite. On center stand it is just two or three drops.
Will start my searches from removing the pasenger footrest and see the pressure gauge. Than will follow other suggestions...

I put paper towels between the engine and skid plate.Oil wicks out overnight.Remove towels and no drips after my oil change.

I did removed a foodrest to have better access to internal parts and......nothing changed. Mean can't see any oil trace on the engine, but beneath the drop is hanging..Look at the pictures. I'll let it go as it is probably because to find that leakage need to dissambled many parts, unless someone have any clue what that can be.

In the mean time I unscrewed also v-belt cover to check the condition. Past 500 km v-belt indicator flashes but I decide use old belt more 5000 km. I do not know how to check the condition of the belt but on the first view looks very good, no cracks, loose fabric or any signs of wear. Anyone can tell me (looking at the pictures, or from experience) if I need to replace it now or can wait.

V-belt pics, last one.

Piotr_Poland wrote:

In the mean time I unscrewed also v-belt cover to check the condition. Past 500 km v-belt indicator flashes but I decide use old belt more 5000 km. I do not know how to check the condition of the belt but on the first view looks very good, no cracks, loose fabric or any signs of wear. Anyone can tell me (looking at the pictures, or from experience) if I need to replace it now or can wait.

There is no way to determine belt wear by just looking at a belt. You need to use a vernier calliper to measure the belt width. It is a difficult measurement to make precisely. My advice, if your belt has reached its replacement schedule in terms of km used, then just do it. A belt can fail with no sign of warning like shredding or cracks. If it does, you will be stranded. Worst case, a broken belt can destroy the front variator.

I'd go with Honda's recommendations for the belt.

Well, another question. Changing v-belt it is obvious for me to change weights in variator. What is the recommendation for weights? Have no idea either original or Drpulley? Please if someone from experience point of view could help.

For the SW here in North America the original variator weights are 28gm rollers. Many of us here have replaced those with Dr Pulley sliding weights ("Sliders") either keeping with 28gm yet realizing improved performance over the OEM rollers; or going with 26gm or 24gm Sliders for more dramatic performance. I believe that there is a supplier for Dr Pulley products in Germany.

But if you want some very exciting performance I have a new set of 21gm (Unobtanium) Dr Pulley Sliders I'll be happy sell you at a better price than that Euro supplier sell the more traditional Sliders.

Tim

It is unbelivable, just come to garage (SW on side stand) and I see a big oil leakage on the flor, that was like 6-7cm wide. It is gettin more and more annoying. Someone have , maybe, oil flow chart in the engine? It is not a miracle it must be a reason why that fuc... oil drops down on side stand and the place from where. Everything looks like on previous pictures so I did not attached new. Please help....
Cosmic Jumper, thanks for your offer but your weights are to light and will have probably great start but high speed will be much lower and also fuel consuption will be much higher (please remember that here 1Litre gasoline costs more than 2 USD  ). But if you convince me we will have a deal.

For the oil, I'd suggest cleaning your engine very well so you can actually see the new oil. You may want to add some florescent dye to the oil and use a blacklight to see if you can find the leak that way - but I'd still start with a clean engine.

You probably should get a service manual if doing your own work. It'll have the oil flow chart you're looking for (it's pretty simple system in the Wing - I'd guess it's drain plug, an engine seal, or it's something at the oil cooler).

One last (unlikely) suggestion: You are sure it's oil, right? It looked like oil in your pictures, but I want to make sure it's not just dirty coolant. This bike tends to have water hoses that loosen, particularly when it gets cold. If it's coolant, just try tightening the hose clamps.

As for the weights, light weights won't really affect high speed at all - you'll still end up in the high ratio just as with heavy weight. Your acceleration will change and that may or may not affect your mileage, but your actual highway mileage won't change much (I suspect it'll be better than stock due to the slider shape which allows you to get a slightly higher ratio).

Piotr_Poland wrote:

Someone have , maybe, oil flow chart in the engine?

PM me your email, and I'll send the oil flow pdf file to you.

Hmmm..with that coolant you mess up in my mind.So far I was sure it is an oil, slipy, smell, consistence, but now will check it very carefully. Unfortunately I cleaned with towel all oil residues so must wait a while. But because of dirt under engine it also may be a coolant. Its consistence is also little oily. You right, must clean the engine first.

cosmic_jumper please PM me all details regarding your 21g weights.. Thanks.

It sounds to me that you are going to have to remove the left swing arm so that you can find that leak.

To do that you will have to put the scoot on the center stand, then disconnect the right shock, remove the rear brake caliper and parking brake, right swing arm and the wheel.

Then move to the left side and remove the variator, belt and disconnect the left shock. With the variator removed remove the 4 bolts holding the left swing arm to the center swing arm (the large cast piece which connects the left and right swing arms. Be sure to disconnect the wire harness from the speed sensor mounted at the rear of the final drive case. Then remove the six allen bolts holding the swing arm to the crankcase.

You'll then be able to move the swing arm and final drive/driven clutch assembly out of the way. You won't have to swing arm bearing from the swing arm/crankcase mount and you won't have to remove the driven pulley/clutch either.

With everything out of the way you can see the left side of the engine, water pump and several other pieces. Hopefully you'll be able to identify the leak with all that stuff exposed.

It is not a difficult job, and the swing arm is not heavy, but it is a bit awkward to move that swing arm about.

Just be sure to reconnect that speed sensor wire harness before to get too far when reassembling everything.

Tim

It may be  best to take the bike into a certified Honda shop and get it diagnosed.  I suspected my oil leak to come from the hole in the water pump case.  The pump shaft goes into the crankcase and I believed the oil was getting past the oil seals on the water pump shaft. My bike has a slow oil leak. It does leak more when on the side stand, but not more than a few drops over a two day span. I have a new water pump, but have not installed it.
 
As to the DR sliders, the lighter the weights, the greater the occurrence of your belt indicator coming on.  I have gone from the OEM 28gm, to Dr 26gm, and settled on the 26gm sliders. My main reason was to reduce the amount of vibration when accelerating from a stop. A side benefit was how much faster it accelerated. I believe that is why my mileage has gone down about 2 mpg.

I clean up a little bit all dire and looks like the leak is from water pump o-ring. Trace of oil goes from that part. Is that possible? Look number 31 on the attached chart, I do assume must be that o-ring. Any suggestions? Anyone change tahat or have pic for that? On first view looks like pump have 3 crews but only two keeps only two parts together and third additionally is screw all pump to engine body, so when unscrew that one  will be no need to pour coolant. Help warmly welommed.

Yes, #31 is an O-ring and, yes, oil could leak from that area. However I doubt that you will be able to remove the water pump from the engine without first draining the coolant and the engine oil. That pump shaft mounts too far into the engine for the coolant hoses to flex enough for the pump to be removed far enough to replace that O-ring. You'll have to disconnect the hoses from the water pump.

Tim

I'm affraid you are right, will be no other option like disconnected coolant hoses. Do you have any information how to refil the system again? Mainly how to get rid of air from the system.
I checked all again and I'm sure that the leak is from that o-ring on pump shaft. Hope I can buy this o-ring in that country "full of dissapoiting miracles".

That O-ring size is shown as 32.95 x 2.62

Piotr_Poland wrote:

Do you have any information how to refil the system again? Mainly how to get rid of air from the system.

email sent with the appropriate service manual scans

I will add that I have found the best way to bleed the air is to rock the bike from side to side both while filling the radiator, and then while revving the engine. Just be careful with the throttle. You don't want the bike taking off on you while you're revving and rocking it. Put the parking brake on while doing that.

Well, where to start???? I finally found the time to find my oil leak and order brand new o-ring honda origin. As I stated before oil went out from water pump o-ring. I drain the coolant (that was no need to drainoil as well). I disconnect cooland hoses and take out long shaft of water pump. O-ring looks without any damages or signs of wear but, was marder than the new one and half round in shape. I was thinking that becuase of years it looks different. But new oring looks not so "solid" like the old one, but new is new. I changed, I put some grease on it to lubricate clean part. Gently I started to put the shaft bact into the engine and.... (which I did not recognize on the beginning) i cut the o-ring because was the wrong one. Once again the original part. But without beeing highlighted that I cut the o-ring I started to bleed my system from air. I drain only about 1L of coolant so I refil the refil tank (not radiator) to the top, start the engine and heat up. I shake, twist etc my SW to bleed but nothing happens. Radiator fan starts but radiator was cold!!! I try many times and no results, so I do believe there is a mistake somewhere because I must get the air from the system but HOW??? In the meantime I checked forr leak, just to be sure all is ok bur.....wasn't so I dismantle all again, burning my hands with hot collant, and see the damaged o-ring. Now, I'll order another o-ring that is not original but will looks like the old one. You can see all in pictures.
My main question is how to bleed (get air out) the system as I did all without results. Usually is the nut somewhere on the top to release the pressure of the air in the hoses, but maybe there is other way???
Need help.

And pictures with order form and two o-rings. That broken one is the new.

Hi Piotr.

From your post the thermostat is not opening, either due to an air bubble blocking the flow or damage to the thermostat itself. When you started the engine and rocked the bike from side to side, did you also rev up the engine several times? Was the radiator cap off while warming up the engine and revving the engine?

I did open view times throttle and revieving engine until the temp was operational. I did rock as well. But the radiator cap was on when revieving. Will do all that operation today so please if you have any advices...

VERY GOOD DESCRIPTION;

Steps are according to FJS/JDM as “tupperware” of SWT/GT are slightly different.
p/s: please PM to correct me if there's an error in the steps, i'll correct the info accordingly

• Put bike on main stand.
• Remove the right glove/storage compartment to reveal the coolant reservoir and radiator cap.
• Remove the reservoir and radiator caps to facilitate “down-flow” when doing gravity draining and for filling in.
• Remove bottom-left fairing to reveal the coolant pipes and drain bolt/plug (see pic).
• Remove the drain bolt and washer to drain used coolant, leave bike till coolant somewhat “stop” flowing. Stock coolant from Honda is a slimy dark green in color fluid.
• Distilled Water Flushing (if desired but recommended):
There will still be some used coolant inside the engine. If flushing is desired, pour some distilled water into the radiator very slowly and allow the water to flow out via the drain outlet, flushing the radiator and upper pipes. When water starts flowing again, start the engine and let it run on idle (water pump running) while continuing to pour distilled water into the radiator. Liquid (used coolant and water) will flow out from the drain outlet as the pump starts to draw fluid from the radiator. Stop the engine when the out-flowing liquid turns pale (takes only few minutes), i.e. used coolant inside the engine is replaced by distilled water (requires a few litres). Do not let the pump run until no more water comes out as it may damage the seals and burn the pump motor.
• Leave bike to cool down and for excess distilled water to be drained by gravity.
• When ready, pour new coolant into the radiator very slowly and allow the coolant to flow through the radiator through the pipes to the engine/pump. Keep on filling coolant till some water starts flowing at the drain outlet. Coolant level should recede slowly at this stage due to gravity.
• To “force” residual distilled water and bleed out any air bubbles trapped inside the system, start the engine and let it run on idle while continuing to pour new coolant into the reservoir. This part is slightly tricky and requires patience.
• Screw the drain plug/washer in place loosely, leaving a suitable gap for water and air to escape. When radiator is temporarily full, put back the radiator cap and fill up via the reservoir.
• When coolant flow is somewhat “stable”, snap the throttle 3~4 times to increase suction from the pump, this helps in the air bleeding process. Repeat as necessary.
• When satisfied that no air is trapped inside the system (radiator, pipes and engine), tighten the drain bolt/washer firmly in place and continue to fill the reservoir with coolant until the level stops residing.
A telltale sign could be that coolant in reservoir stops residing when bolt is closed completely but starts residing immediately when bolt is opened again as coolant below escapes from drain outlet.
• When coolant level stops residing, stop the engine, fill coolant till upper line of reservoir and put back the reservoir cap.
• Fit the right glove/storage compartment into place but suggest not to screw back the screws. This is to allow easier top up when the coolant level resides during the monitoring period.
• Fit the bottom-left fairing back to place and bike is ready for riding.
• Ride the bike and monitor the coolant level over the next few days, top up coolant as necessary. When/if level remains stable, tighten all screws and … ho-say liow

Piotr_Poland wrote:

I did open view times throttle and revieving engine until the temp was operational. I did rock as well. But the radiator cap was on when revieving. Will do all that operation today so please if you have any advices...

The radiator cap needs to be off when revving to allow the air to escape.
Try it again with the cap off and it should bleed properly.

The description in your last post of filling and bleeding has added some steps that I don't think are necessary. When refilling the radiator, the engine should not be running. You don't need to have the drain bolt removed while refilling. I have done coolant changes on 3 different Silverwings using the method I emailed you from the N. American service manual plus the rocking from side to side, and never had a problem with air bubbles or the thermostat not opening.

I used to work on outboard motors, and when we refilled the lower leg with oil we did it from the bottom drain bolt so that there weren't air bubbles trapped.

Perhaps there is some way to gravity feed the coolant from the drain hole. Then quickly refit the drain bolt when the coolant level reached the radiator cap.

I did it!!!
First bought new o-ring (0,3 USD) thicker and larger which fits much more better thean the original Honda stuff (6 USD). There is no leak anymore, dry surface after test drive. My mistake with bleeding was ..... I just did not open radiator cap. Now all hoses are heated up and all looks good. Thanks all for help.
Next step will be changing weights for 20gr DrPulley and new drive belt, but that will wait a while.

Congratulations! Great result.  

Piotr_Poland wrote:

I did it!!!
First bought new o-ring (0,3 USD) thicker and larger which fits much more better thean the original Honda stuff (6 USD). There is no leak anymore, dry surface after test drive. My mistake with bleeding was ..... I just did not open radiator cap. Now all hoses are heated up and all looks good. Thanks all for help.
Next step will be changing weights for 20gr DrPulley and new drive belt, but that will wait a while.

Good for you Piotr.
I'm sure you can rest easy and sleep well now.

If I can offer one more suggestion, if it were me I wouldn't put in 20 gr sliders. To me they will be too light, and result in much higher rpm while accelerating. The peak torque of the engine occurs at 5000 rpm. Exceeding that will result in very high fuel consumption. If that's what you want, strong acceleration at all times even with a small throttle opening, that's what you'll get. I have 24 gr sliders in mine. I have tried 28 gr, 26 gr, and 24 gr. Before installing the Dr. Pulley sliders, I had a J Costa pin-type variator. It's acceleration was very strong, but its cruising rpm was also 500 rpm higher than the stock rollers. The J Costa increased my fuel consumption by around 10%. In my opinion, 20 gr sliders will give you the same acceleration and fuel consumption as the J Costa.

Whatever you end up choosing, enjoy.

Piotr_Poland,
I agree with Bigbird. The first sliders I tried were the 26gr ones. Was not happy with it. I was looking for the right one that would reduce the amount of vibration when starting from a stop. I ended up with the 24gr sliders. It eliminated the vibration, and gave me a WOW on acceleration.