Fork springs' orientation?

Can someone confirm which way the springs should be inserted?
The internet has both orientations mentioned. Was there a service bulletin?
Thanks.....currently, everything is disassembled in a mess...

Can you please measure the i.d. of the fork tube.

Thanks

Tim

Well, being in Australia you have slight dilemma!

Do as Tim asks and measure the i.d. of the fork tube.

Hi, Tim.

ID of fork is ~38mm (above the threads).

Thanks

Craftbike, sorry I’m not immediately answering your question but thank you for sharing that measurement.

This ‘which way is up?’ question has come up before on various forums before. But it has never been definitely answered.

One question I’ve been attempting to answer is that if the springs are installed loose-wound side down the ~10.25 oz (US) of fork fluid will rise to a certain level in the fork tube. Conversely, when the spring is installed tight-wound side down that same fluid level will raise to a higher level.

So then when the fluid level is higher there will be less air within the fork tube to act as a cushion.

I’m trying to measure the difference in fluid levels between the two different fork spring installation directions.

Which ultimately will bring us back to the question: does it really make a difference?

Stay tuned.

Craftbike, if you do some searches in the search bar you'll find this to be a topic of great interest and controversy.

Personally, after doing some basic research, I would suggest that it doesn't make any difference.

I installed mine in accordance with the Honda Service manual simply to avoid making the decision.

Cosmic_Jumper wrote:

Craftbike, sorry I’m not immediately answering your question but thank you for sharing that measurement.

This ‘which way is up?’ question has come up before on various forums before. But it has never been definitely answered.

One question I’ve been attempting to answer is that if the springs are installed loose-wound side down the ~10.25 oz (US) of fork fluid will rise to a certain level in the fork tube. Conversely, when the spring is installed tight-wound side down that same fluid level will raise to a higher level.

So then when the fluid level is higher there will be less air within the fork tube to act as a cushion.

I’m trying to measure the difference in fluid levels between the two different fork spring installation directions.

Which ultimately will bring us back to the question: does it really make a difference?

Stay tuned.

Thanks, Tim.

Calculating the difference of air volume would be pretty straightforward. But, I'm guessing that the pressure difference would be minimal compared to the spring rate.

I could roughly knock up what I think the difference would be if you're interested?

Once my seals arrive (yeah, should of waited) I'll put them in with tighter coils at the bottom.

Craftbike, I would be interested to know the difference in oil displacement.

The first time reassembled my forks the fluid level was roughly 97mm from the top of the tube, as per the manual, but I couldn't remember which way up I installed the springs.

Last time I reassembled them the fluid was about 55mm from the top of the tube with the springs installed tighly wound 'up' as per the manual. I ignored the level measurements deciding that the correct 'amount' of fluid was more important.

At the risk of sounding like fellow curmudgeon Mr Grinsel, and for once I have to agree, there doesn't seem to much about riding in the current topics.

You know, the most enjoyable part of owning a maxi scooter.

Instead the majority of topics are about tinkering, engine problems, and tales of woe.

All members of the forum are free to post articles about there riding exploits. It could be true that most members find riding a very personal experience which is difficult to share and passing on this enjoyment comes down to...'you had to be there'. A forum full of 'I've been here or there and I've seen this or that' would become quite boring, for me anyway.

The idea of having so many different thoughts of amateurs and intellectuals sharing their knowledge and experience of the Silverwing is what makes this forum so interesting. New SW owners may need to know that the idiosyncracies of their SW may just be normal or they may have a problem which needs attention. Other topics may lead to SW owners thinking...'mmm...maybe I should take a look at that part of my SW in case there's a problem-in-waiting.

Personally, I have compiled a whole bunch of tools and gadgets to help me keep my SW in good order and I don't know where else I would have gotten this information. I've said before that I wish we could all meet up for a giant global get-together and discuss all this stuff, including riding experiences, face to face. Wow, what a gas that would be.

I apologies for rambling-on but this forum is an accompaniment to my SW and has helped countless others to enjoy their SW to the full. Bear with us Meldrew, besides, winter is coming and many will be putting their SWs to bed.

Personally, I find spring orientation a fascinating subject, particularly as the SWs front suspension behaviour has baffled us endlessly

There's no getting away from the fact that the Silver Wing has now been around for over 20 years or more.

Unlike the other side of the Pond, no one finds them in barns, so used Silver Wings nowadays tend to be found in dealerships, have had up to half a dozen owners, and usually records of services and MOT's etc. The dealer will usually service it, put on new tyres if needed, and offer awarranty of 3 months or more so there's less chance of you buying a pile of mechanical crap.

As for riding versus spannering, I came to the conclusion many years ago that I'd rather have memories on where I'd ridden in any specific year, the places I'd stayed at and visited both home and abroad, rather than remembering that year for the time I spent on my hands and knees tinkering.

Another thing is if you regularly ride it, clean it, do basic servicing, and keep corrosion at bay, you don't have to do much else year to year apart from getting new tyres and ensuring it passes the MOT.

My Forza passed it's second MOT a couple of weeks ago, and looking back over the years I've never had a failure or advisory on any motorcycle or maxi scooter I've ever owned.

So time spent riding is rewarding and you won't be posting on forums about about the long term effects of leaving ethanol based fuel sitting in your tank, flat batteries, adding fuel stabilisers, and all the rest of it.

As for putting the Silver Wings to bed in winter, I quite understand that if you live in Canada or the colder parts of the US where they get lake effect snow dumped on them.

But here in the UK I'd be hard pushed to remember any recent hard winter where the occasional couple of inches of snow lingered for more than a few days.

As an aside, my SW hasn't failed an MOT in the 7 years I've owned it and I ride at least every other day, year round. (apart from salty roads)... Ride on pardner...

The orientation of the springs makes no difference to oil and air gap, and so no difference to the effect on spring rate.

If you think about it you, have three fixed volumes, the total fork volume, the oil volume and the spring volume. Air volume = total - spring - oil. If the tight wound spring is installed down then the oil level is correspondingly higher, but the loose part of the spring takes up less of the air volume.

The mechanical fit of the spring is more important i.e. that the spring diameter matches whatever it bears against. The service manual that I have shows tight end up.

My manual shows tight end up too, so that's what I did.

Also, without taking the conversation too far sideways, I did go riding; that's what got me into this mess!

Terry Smith wrote:

The orientation of the springs makes no difference to oil and air gap, and so no difference to the effect on spring rate.

If you think about it you, have three fixed volumes, the total fork volume, the oil volume and the spring volume. Air volume = total - spring - oil. If the tight wound spring is installed down then the oil level is correspondingly higher, but the loose part of the spring takes up less of the air volume.

The mechanical fit of the spring is more important i.e. that the spring diameter matches whatever it bears against. The service manual that I have shows tight end up.

Terry, you're right. Good thinking.

Got new seals finally (local motorcycle shop had flooded!). They slipped on looser than anticipated, but we'll see how we go.

Didn't have a seal whacker, though this hacked work well.



Put on 'fork savers'/wetsuit material to see if that helps. Downside will be that it'll be harder to tell if it leaks.



What an attractive 'wing.....

Next fiddle will be making up a fender extender for the guard (radiator getting lots of dirt in it). I think I'll try 3D printing one, unless I come across some suitable rubber.

G'day mate, you can make a pre curved mud flap to the size you want by cutting pieces from a cheap black plastic flower pot.

FWIW, I think I used the old seals to drive home the new ones.... Can't honestly remember

Craftbike wrote:

Got new seals finally (local motorcycle shop had flooded!). They slipped on looser than anticipated, but we'll see how we go.

Didn't have a seal whacker, though this hacked work well.



Put on 'fork savers'/wetsuit material to see if that helps. Downside will be that it'll be harder to tell if it leaks.



What an attractive 'wing.....

Next fiddle will be making up a fender extender for the guard (radiator getting lots of dirt in it). I think I'll try 3D printing one, unless I come across some suitable rubber.

What are you riding the Mad Max custom edition SW?   To each his own if it works for you ride it and enjoy.