Oil change

I changed my oil and filter today I just bought the swing about 2 Months ago And the previous owner had a dealer change the oil just before I bought it.When I took the drain plug out the spring came out but no screen. Well of course I thought that the dealer lost it or just left it out.After reading another post about someone putting it in backwards I decided to check it buy sticking my little finger in the drain hole Well there it was Upside down Thanks to these Forums We are able to do a lot of the maintenance ourselves and do it right Tony

Because as we know it is impossible for an individual to put the screen back in upside down. you need the special know how that only the dealerships possess.

While it would seem that the dealership used by the previous owner of tonylumps bike made a mistake - how do I account for the reality that the dealership we take our bikes to has always done a good job for us? Some dealerships are bad, some are good, some independents are bad, some are good. Some individuals have no clue, some are maintenance gurus.

Not all dealeerships are bad - Cycle Nation in Huntsville, AL - great place to take a scooter for maintenance. Midway Cycles in MAdison, AL - great independent shop to use for various maintenance tasks.

tonylumps, glad you got it straightened out.

Just had to order the screen today, changing oil pulled plug spring came out but no spring. Felt up in the hole nothing that I could find used a light and mirror still no spring. Last place it was changed was the local Honda dealer here in Beaumont, have no idea as to whether it was there when they changed it or not. Looks like I'll wait till Thursday to finish up my oil change.Rat's and the weather is supposed to be good all week.
Craig

Okay guys I need some help. I'm going to change my oil and filter for the first time and I have some questions. First, let me give you some background.

The Honda service manual says we should use a 10W-30 oil with and API rating of SG or higher. It should also meet JASO T903 standard of MA, whatever that is.

The thing that is confusing is they say we should use 10W-30 but in their illustration of oil viscosities they show 10W-30 and 10W-40. I am confused by that. I take that graph to mean I could use either one - not just 10W-30. But I'm not sure.

Anyway, I went over to my auto supply store this afternoon and bought the Fram oil filter and filter remover. I told the store clerk what I needed in the way of oil and he sold me three quarts of Mobil Super, 10W-30 with and API rating of SN. He told me SN was a higher rating than SG and I was set to go. So I have the oil and am ready to do an oil change but I still have my doubts.

When I had my Honda Helix I was using Castrol, four cycle motorcycle oil with a viscosity of 10W-40 and an API rating of SG. I wanted to use that oil in my SilverWing as well but I'm stuck on the 10W-40.

Can I use either 10W-30 or 10W-40? If yes, I think I'll take the Mobil oil back and get the Castrol. And what is it with synthetic motor oils? Why are some of you using Synthetics? From what I have read in other threads it sounds like a number of you are using different oils.

A little help please.

I'd run the 10W/40. Castrol is a great oil.
I just did the 600 mile change and used 10W/40.

midlandchip wrote:

The thing that is confusing is they say we should use 10W-30 but in their illustration of oil viscosities they show 10W-30 and 10W-40. I am confused by that. I take that graph to mean I could use either one - not just 10W-30. But I'm not sure.

Where are you located??

The choice of 10W-30 or 10W-40 is based on the ambient temperatures that the Silverwing will be ridden at. In Texas, the summers can be warm ... so I run 10W-40.

I'm in Michigan and I only ride in the late spring, summer and late fall when the temperature can range from 60 to 90 degrees F. And I am sure your comment about the oil to select is based on temperature - that's what the graph in the service manual is telling us. In winter months I should use 10W-30, in the summer use 10W-40. I don't know how I missed that. It is obvious now that you pointed it out. Using a higher viscosity oil during times when the temperature is high is a no brainer and yet I missed it completely.

I'm taking my 10W-30 back to get 10W-40. That's what I will use from now on since I mostly ride during the summer months. I don't think I will use a total synthetic and I will stick with the Fram filter despite what others have said on this and other threads. However, I may switch filters on future oil changes after I have read more and given the whole subject more thought.

Just lots of good information on this board and helpful hints.

midlandchip wrote:

I don't think I will use a total synthetic

Why??

When I switched to full synthetic ... as I recall the engine ran a little quieter and increased in MPG ( I would have to go back and check my records).

midlandchip wrote:

I'm in Michigan and I only ride in the late spring, summer and late fall when the temperature can range from 60 to 90 degrees F. And I am sure your comment about the oil to select is based on temperature - that's what the graph in the service manual is telling us. In winter months I should use 10W-30, in the summer use 10W-40. I don't know how I missed that. It is obvious now that you pointed it out. Using a higher viscosity oil during times when the temperature is high is a no brainer and yet I missed it completely.

I'm taking my 10W-30 back to get 10W-40. That's what I will use from now on since I mostly ride during the summer months. I don't think I will use a total synthetic and I will stick with the Fram filter despite what others have said on this and other threads. However, I may switch filters on future oil changes after I have read more and given the whole subject more thought.

Just lots of good information on this board and helpful hints.

Hi Chip. I'm in the mitten too. I run the 10W/40 in my '87 Honda motorcycle all the time. It what the manual recommends anyway. I tend to stretch my riding season as much as possible, stopping when snow flies and starting when the roads are clear, dry and clean of salt. Looking at the manual I have, it looks like 10W/40 is acceptable in all the temp ranges i'd ride in. Id say you should be fine.

I agree there is nothing wrong with full synthetic. Currently I'm running semi synthetic BMW motorcycle 10W/40.
I would run a full synthetic in the SilverWing.

Okay, I'll go with a total synthetic.

midlindchip,

You can't go wrong with either type of oil but I also noticed the SWing run a bit smoother and another mpg or so. The SWing also runs at higher rpm's too at highway speeds than most motorcycles too, so I think it helps more too to have less friction in the moving parts of the engine. But if you ran dino oil your swing would still run great and last a long time too.

Couple thoughts ...

- Never heard of premature wear if an engine has enough oil to normal use.
Ordinary cheap mineral oil according to manufacturer's instructions.
Modern oil is probably 10 times better than 40 years ago.

- Play the role as much ambient temperature on the engine?
I rather think that the oil viscosity is important at cold start.

What is bad for the engine?

Cold Start
Poor filtering of the inlet. (sand)
Incorrect combustion
Incorrect ignition
...

For an individual , it is very difficult to judge fuel consumption by different oil.
Should very precise measurements under exactly the same conditions.
Not knowing to what brand / type of oil involved.

The wishful thinking should be eliminated altogether in scientific research.


Eddy

eddy wrote:

Couple thoughts ... The wishful thinking should be eliminated altogether in scientific research.

Eddy

Well that's just crazy talk. If conjecture, predisposition, presupposition, and wishful thinkng are not part of the process how are the oil and tire discussions going to exist?

Dale,

I am not sure i fully understand your statement...

Yes, there are all ways discussions about things like fuel consuming, tires..;etc..
Often interesting.
Seldom free of fantasy.

Those are controllable by scientific tests under laboratory circumstances.
We can't do this.

One of the important things in those tests is what they name ' blind research'.
Meaning the researcher(s) do not know the brand or type of the object to research.

Eddy

Eddy,

My tongue was firmly planted in my cheek.

Best oil?

Best tires?

Best underwear (or none at all) for long distance riding?

Most of the discussions here are all subjective. Best for me is not necessarily quantifiable. The best oil is that which is changed frequently per manufacturers schedule and meets the manufacturers requirements.

My SW is not due for an oil change for another 3k miles, but I used Valvoline conventional 10W40, 4-stroke motorcycle oil, and Honda OEM filter last time and I think I will continue using it.

Link here

Okay guys, I did my first oil change this afternoon and this is my story. It's a little long and I am sorry about that but I don't know how to make it shorter.

I went over to an O'Reillys auto parts store (Midland, Michigan) and bought three quarts of Mobil Super Synthetic oil with a viscosity of 10W-30. I asked for 10W-40 but was told they did not have 10W-40 in a synthetic. So I took the 10W-30.

The API rating on the synthetic oil is SN. That's higher than the SG required in the Honda service manual so I figured I was good to go. I also purchased a K&N wrench-off oil filter, HP-1008. I was told it was the best filter that O'Reillys had in stock. I had originally purchased a Fram filter, also from O'Reillys, and was going to use it but after reading so many comments about the poor quality of the Fram on this board I decided to pass on using it for this first oil change.

I had the help of a buddy who has changed the oil on all sorts of vehicles. I rode over to his place and we did the job in his garage because he has every tool available. We drained the old oil and then removed the original filter. The filter came off without a problem. We cleaned the little wire mesh filter and put everything back together - that includes the K&N replacement filter. Then we added two quarts of the Mobil synthetic oil, ran the engine for a short time and checked the oil level. We added another third of a quart of oil, checked the oil level again and we were all done.

It was quick and clean and I rode my bike back home feeling like I had really accomplished something. Changing the oil was easy and simple and I knew I could do it alone in the future and save myself a little money. Now comes the good part.

Once I got home I was reading my owner's manual and found the part in the oil change section where it says the oil we use should meet a JASO T903 standard of MA. We are told the MA should appear in a label on the oil container. We are also told the words Energy Conserving should not appear in the bottom of the little circle on the container where the API rating and viscosity are shown. Guess what?

My Mobil synthetic does not show the words Energy Conserving in the circle but it does say Resourse Conserving, and I can't find the MA anywhere on the container. I couldn't believe it but the thought hit me that I had used the wrong oil.

So next I asked myself if this was a big deal. I thought I would just ride the bike for 1,000 miles and then change the oil again except the next time I would use a different oil. And I also asked myself what the hell does JASO T903 mean anyway? So I did a quick Google search to learn a little more. This in a nut shell is what I found.

Low friction, low viscosity automotive oils designed to improve fuel economy have caused clutch slippage and poor gear durability problems in 4-cycle motorcycle engines. The JACO standards for oil (developed in Japan) are intended to deal with this problem. If an automotive oil meets the JACO T903 standard of MA it is okay for 4-cycle motorcycle engines.

Unfortunately, the Mobil synthetic oil I used does not meet the JACO standard so I guess I have the wrong oil in my bike.

Now I have read posts about oil additives, dry clutches and wet clutches on this board and to tell you the truth I don't want to be bothered with all that stuff. I just want to put an oil in my bike that I know is okay and then ride without worrying about it. So this is what I am going to do.

I going to go to my Honda dealer tomorrow and buy the Honda 4-cycle motor oil. I understand it can be purchased by the gallon to save a little money. I'm going to change my oil and oil filter again using Honda oil this time and I'm going to put this thing to bed once and for all. The rest of you may take some pleasure in swimming through all the data and information available on engine oils, wet clutches, dry clutches, oil filters, etc. but that doesn't do anything for me.

The best advise I think I read on this subject was on another forum which was we should just use a good, 10W-40 automotive oil with an API rating of SG or better and change the oil and filter often. If we do that we should not have any problems. Now that's clean and simple and the sort of thing I have been looking for. Despite that, I'm still going to go with the Honda oil and I'm going to put all this behind me.

First this (SilverWing) ain't typical motorcycle engine. Trans does not share engine oil.

#2 MA about only reasonable price MA oil I can find is Shell Rottela 15-40. Works if you worry.

Speaking from my last 500,000 or so miles with various bikes and scooters, WalMart house brand 10-40W works fine

I find bike shops and their Honda oils very expensive.


I change oil every 2,000 miles or 60 days which ever comes first and filter every other change (WalMart)


John Grinsel

Yess..John.

Cheap oil according specs.

You drive a lot?
Not many cold starts then.

What about every 5000 mls oil changing?

Great advise John. I may reconsider and follow your lead. But first I'm going to check the price of the Honda oil, think about how many miles I will ride during the summer and how many times I will change the oil.

I rode my Honda Helix 5,000 miles the summer I had it before I got the SilverWing. If I maintain that schedule and change oil every 2,000 miles as you are doing I can probably get buy with two to three oil changes a summer. That shouldn't cost me a bundle if I buy Honda oil and I don't have to worry about all these oil issues which can be complicated.

In any event, I have learned more about engine oil and oil requirements for motorcycles and mega scooters than I ever thought I would want to know. I think that's good.

Bigbird, as far as I'm concerned you are probably the message board guru on this topic. I'm guessing you have forgotten more about engines than I will ever learn during the rest of my lifetime. But I'm 73 years old and at this point in my life I don't want to be bothered with these details. I just want to ride and not have to worry about the engine oil I am using. I'm still thinking I will go with the Honda oil and forget about it. At least I now know I can change the oil and filter by myself and that's a positive step forward. I will be getting the Mobil synthetic 10W-30 out of my bike this afternoon.

IMO, changing the oil every 2000 miles or 60 days is an unnecessary and indiscriminate waste of resources. Honda recommends changing the oil every 8000 miles.

I don't think a good oil, designed for motorcycles, as bigbird described it, would cost 4 times what a cheap oil costs.

The oil does not degrade much during its useful life, the main limitation in the oil life is the impurities it carries as it cleans the engine of residues; the majority of these impurities are captured by the filter but others accumulate in the oil and that is the reason for changing it and sending it for recycling (which is just the process of cleaning it through an industrial process and using it for other systems later on). Unless you drive on dirt tracks or race every day, the impurities levels in the oil should stay within the design parameters until the next schedules change.

Our bikes have very high tech, japanese engines, designed by clever engineers to work under the expected conditions at levels below the maximum allowable limits of their components with significant safety factors, but, please use an oil worth of your machine and stick to the recommended schedule.

My 2 cents.

Bottom Line: Very few people drive their scooter or bikes enough to actually wear engine out. So some people can get by with once a season oil change.

I just know my way works. and after over 1.5 million miles in Europe/Asia/North and Central America, I have the experience.

One thing I won't do----pay dealer for oil change service.

John Grinsel

Wow!!!!

John, I have just calculated how long you have had a motorcycle seat under your butt!!!

Based upon an average speed of 45 MPH, that works out at 3.8 years.

Incredible!!!!!!!

I'm beginning to feel like I have a Twitter account and this is my latest Tweet.

Anyway, this is what I did today. I went over to my Honda dealer and bought three quarts of Honda, 4-cycle 10W-40 motorcycle oil with the proper API and JASO ratings. I also bought a Honda oil filter. If my math is correct, one oil change with Honda products is going to cost $34.83. My calculations are based on 2.3 quarts of oil per oil change.

I could have bought a gallon container of the oil and saved a little money. But I didn’t want to use 2.3 quarts out of the container and then have it sit around until next spring.

I have read on this board Honda tells us we only have to change oil every 8,000 miles. I seriously doubt I will ride any more than 5,000 miles in a season - mid April to mid October. Therefore, I’m thinking I will change oil only once per season, in the spring when I take my bike out of storage. So, each year an oil change is going to cost me $34.83 which is spread over six months. That’s $5.81 per month. I think I can afford that.

The only change I might make to my plan is to change oil in the fall when I put the bike in storage. Then in the spring I will not change it again but will ride through the season and do another change in the fall. That means I might do the 600 mile change now and then again in the fall.

Considering the costs involved, I think we are making the decision about which oil and filter to use far too complicated. Just buy the Honda products and sleep easy at night.

Personally, I would do the change in the fall before storage.
Thats what I've done for my other cycles. Its best to get those acidic combustion byproducts out of the crankcase so they don't sit there all winter.

I, on the contrary, would do the change before the riding season, or you can drain the oil in the fall and add new one before riding in the spring.

The oil additives degrade overtime, that is the reason why the oil should be changed at intervals on xxxx miles or xx months, whichever occurs first.

Okay, I hear you. But I just thought I had this simplified to a level I could deal with and now we are starting to complicate it again.

I don't like the idea of draining the oil in the fall. I would like to have oil in the system while the bike sits.

But thanks for the comment. I will figure out what I am going to do. I may just change it in the fall and then again in the spring.

I see your point, bigbird, I guess, being sealed in the system, the oil will be ok then.

I think I ride too much, there is no "off season" for me

Today I put in the Honda oil and filter. I'm just about ready to put this topic behind me. However, one thing happened that I would like you guys to comment on.

After the oil change was complete we started the bike and I heard the engine knocking and the red oil light went on - but just for a couple seconds. After that the light went out and the engine smoothed out. I am guessing this is normal but it sure as hell was un-nerving to hear that engine knocking even if for a short time.

Garth Williamson
Midland, Michigan

That does not sound unlikely to me, but just to be sure, start the bike from cold, let it warm up for 3 to 5 minutes on the center stand, turn it off, wait 2 or 3 minutes and check the oil level. When I changed mine, I had to add about 1/3 of one qt to bring it to the proper level.

Gene,

Did you pre-fill the filter before putting it on? If not, the period spent filling it is what you experienced -- normal.

Jon

I did not know we were supposed to fill the oil filter before putting it on. I never heard of that before. I will try it next time.

Garth Williamson
Midland, Michigan

Its not required. A lot of the antique auto guys I know do it to shorten the time for initial pressurization of the filter.

I don't know how you'd do it with the sideways filter on the SW.

Buickguy wrote:

Its not required. A lot of the antique auto guys I know do it to shorten the time for initial pressurization of the filter.

I don't know how you'd do it with the sideways filter on the SW.

While I'm two years short of the accepted "antique" age, I have been pre-filling the filters since I started doing my own auto/motorcycle maintenance in 1955.

Jon

Never filled the filters, all my live.
Empty..oil on joint, screw on by hand.

Never had troubles wit engines.

I think over pampering our cars/mc is not needed.

Eddy

+1

Thanks for all the info. I'm doing my oil change this weekend. By the way, I'm in Michigan also (Grand Rapids).

The first thing I did when I got my SW was change the oil... after I filled her up I ran her a few seconds and checked the level - and had to add some.

Make sense to me as I don't see filling the oil filter and then having it spill as I screw it on. Just check the level after running it a few seconds and every few rides. I am surprised by how clean it stayed the first few rides. Time to check it again today.

Since the SWing filter goes on horizontally, I don't see anyway to load the filter and install it without spillage. If it were a vertical mount, I would.

Put the filter on, fill with the proper amount of oil, and start the bike whilst it's still on the centerstand. Let it idle for 20-30 seconds or so and the "dry engine rattle" will disappear. The key to longevity is not to load the engine until the rattle is gone.

For those determined to pre-load their filters, don't forget to deduct that volume of oil from the total amount used for refilling.

I guess I haven't had the patience to try it that way. But it makes sense -- I'll try it next time. Thanks!

So whats wrong with using mobil 1 synth, non energy conserving oil?

tonylumps wrote:

I changed my oil and filter today I just bought the swing about 2 Months ago And the previous owner had a dealer change the oil just before I bought it.When I took the drain plug out the spring came out but no screen. Well of course I thought that the dealer lost it or just left it out.After reading another post about someone putting it in backwards I decided to check it buy sticking my little finger in the drain hole Well there it was Upside down Thanks to these Forums We are able to do a lot of the maintenance ourselves and do it right Tony

Here's my $.02: I recently changed to Mobil 0W30 w/the green label/cap (has more friction modifers to make the engine spin more freely and hence, better economy, lower effort, longer life). Even in hot climate, the M-1 won't break down. Shell Rotella T does NOT contain friction modifiers, but is a high-quality, commercial=grade synthetic lubricant. If you use ANY oil with the JASO certification, it will NOT have friction modifers. Also, GTX is vastly superior to most dino oils in some aspects, but woefully poor in others, so I simply don't recommend it (go to amsoil.com and read their motor oil comparison). Synthetic oils are MUCH STRONGER and lubricate better LONGER. I buy my M-1 at wallyworld for 25.82 for a 5-qt jug. And you'll probably need a bigger wrench to get your filter off = I use a 12" Stanley channel lock pliers. Good luck!

Okay I have now read this thread through and have a good idea of what oil NOT to use, but my head is spinning on what TO use. There seems to be a lot of requirements to process about which oil to change to. I too would like a simplified assessment on which oil is best. It seems the previous owner of my bike had the dealer put 20w50 oil in the bike. They probably reasoned that Las Vegas can get up to 115F in the summer and so they put that weight in. On my next oil change I know I'll want 10w40 in there as I ride all year from 115 way down to 28 degrees F. So that's one prerequisite in the bag. Next, I figure I'd like synthetic and one that is easily purchased at Wal-Mart, Auto Zone or Napa for a decent price. And it only goes without saying that it needs to meet all the requirements so as not to cause any damage to the engine---one that fits all the JASO, SG whatever stuff. Honestly all those initials are giving me a headache.
So, the long and short of it--what specific motor oil fits the bill for all those? All the jazzy initials and specs, readily available, 10w40 synthetic, won't hurt my bike or break my bank all in one. Any recommendations?

I am utterly amazed at the length of this thread!!!!!!!!!

bigbird wrote:

I use Shell Rotella T6 5W-40 synthetic.

Thank you Bigbird for your reply. At least I have a starting point. Okay, now a few questions: First, you & I obviously live in two very different climates so I would expect we might be on different ends of the "Honda recommendation spectrum". That said, I was wondering why you chose a 5w-40 oil instead of a 10w-40. Is it because synthetics have lower weight numbers in comparison with a comparable standard oil? I don't recall seeing a lot of oils with low first numbers like 0w or 5w until synthetics got real popular. So would it be okay to try an oil lower than 10w-40 because it is synthetic? I'm concerned because I'd like to get a full synthetic and with the amount of miles I put on the bike, it'd be a while before I accumulate 8k miles to change it again. All of the talk about the 20w-50 I currently have in the motor being bad in colder starts also concerns me and indeed, I am seeing a little slower cranking on the colder nights we're now getting here. I want to change it out soon before we get a lot colder and I'm driving around with 20w-50.
BTW, anyone know the prices of the Honda, Fram and K & N oil filters respectively?

Don't blame slower cranking/starting to the oil only.

The main reason is the remarkable lower capacity of the battery when cold/freeze .

People are different.
I use cheap (mineral) oil according Honda standards.
But good brand.

I think my engine will run 100,000 miles.
Then, my age is 81.

LVScooterBill wrote:

Thank you Bigbird for your reply. At least I have a starting point. Okay, now a few questions: First, you & I obviously live in two very different climates so I would expect we might be on different ends of the "Honda recommendation spectrum". That said, I was wondering why you chose a 5w-40 oil instead of a 10w-40. Is it because synthetics have lower weight numbers in comparison with a comparable standard oil? I don't recall seeing a lot of oils with low first numbers like 0w or 5w until synthetics got real popular. So would it be okay to try an oil lower than 10w-40 because it is synthetic? I'm concerned because I'd like to get a full synthetic and with the amount of miles I put on the bike, it'd be a while before I accumulate 8k miles to change it again. All of the talk about the 20w-50 I currently have in the motor being bad in colder starts also concerns me and indeed, I am seeing a little slower cranking on the colder nights we're now getting here. I want to change it out soon before we get a lot colder and I'm driving around with 20w-50.
BTW, anyone know the prices of the Honda, Fram and K & N oil filters respectively?

Bill,

I know I'm going to come off as a wet blanket (or worse), but I can't help myself.

It's just an oil change, not manned flight out of the earths orbit.

Stay within the manufacturers recomendations and buy the oil you like and the filter you like and most importantly the one(s) you can afford. Your mototrcycle won't object to the flavor or show it's disdain for the choice - it can't, it's just a machine. Change oil at the frequency you are comfortable with and with the oil and filter you like and just ride.

My apologies - but it really is just an oil change.

Bill, I second Bigbirds comments; my climate is about the same as yours and I also use Rotella T6 5-40 synthetic and SuperTech oil filters, both avail at Walmart. Rotella is widely used in motorcycles. You can find motorcycle specific oil at most of the auto stores in 10-40 if you prefer that, in synthetic or dino. As mentioned before, I have a buddy with over 200,000 miles on his '03 Wing, using only dino oil, changed at specified intervals. Same guy....2 belt changes. If you don't ride much, I'd suggest using only dino oil and change now before winterizing, and maybe again in early spring. By putting fresh oil in you get rid of any acidic contaminents in the old stuff while the scoot sits thur the winter. Spring change will rid it of any moisture that might have accumulated from condensation. Thats my take on; others have their own. As Dale said above, its not rocket science, don't worry, be happy.

jdeereanton wrote:

Bill,

I know I'm going to come off as a wet blanket (or worse), but I can't help myself.

It's just an oil change, not manned flight out of the earths orbit.

Stay within the manufacturers recomendations and buy the oil you like and the filter you like and most importantly the one(s) you can afford. Your mototrcycle won't object to the flavor or show it's disdain for the choice - it can't, it's just a machine. Change oil at the frequency you are comfortable with and with the oil and filter you like and just ride.

My apologies - but it really is just an oil change.

Sheesh man, I'm just trying to learn a subject I know nothing about. As to over-complicating it---er, uh, I think I'm just the latest in a very long line of contributors to this supposed 'needlessly complicated' topic thread and yet seem to be the one catching the flack for it. There has been technical analysis bandied about all over the place for five pages, and I just ask someone to give me the long & short of what it all means and I get the "it's not rocket science man" comment thrown at me? Really.

Ted, thanks for the info. I'm actually able to ride all through the winter here so the bike never sits. By dino I take it you mean old 'dinosaur' style oil. If not, then you can see my level of know how on this subject.