Synthetic Engine Oil

Hi all,

I'm going to switch to synthetic when I get to 4000 miles here in less than a month. I would like to do this myself and have read myriad of posts and feel that I am ready. However, my question is regarding the actual switching of oils.

Do I need to do anything in particular to get rid of all the old dino oil? Or will it be fine to combine the synthetic with the leftover dino that adheres to all the various parts? This would be for the main engine oil and the final drive oil.

Thanks!

--Russ

Actually, I believe Pennzoil markets an oil mix that contains petroleum & synthetic so I wouldn't think any slight petro. oil left in the crank case would be a problem.I have been running Mobil One for a couple of years without a problem

All common brands of synthetic oils are compatible with common brands of petro oil. All you need to do is change the oil and filter in the normal manner. I've changed a few motorcycles from synthetic back to dino oil when I had my shop with no problems. Synthetic oil really doesn't make all that much difference in engine wear, my Goldwing was still running like new with nearly new compression and idle oil pressure after 140,000 miles using DELO 400 15W40 dino oil. A fellow near me has a GW with 360,000 on the odometer that's only had one clutch change other than normal reoutine maintance and is still running like new. He uses petroleum based oil. I believe you do better for an engine by changing the oil more often. The only real advantage of synthetics I can see is that they hold their viscosity longer so to get any benefit from them you need to extend the oil change interval. The draw back to this is that combustion byproducts that accumulate in the engine from condensation and blowby build up more. The price of synthetic oil tends to make it hurt the wallet to change it very often so using cheaper oil and changing it at 4000 miles or two or three times a year is better for the engine because it gets rid of those acid that build up and attack bearing surfaces and such.

The other advantage of full synthetic oil is heat tolerance. Synthetics will take a lot more heat than Dino oil and still do it's job. In the Arizona desert in Summer, it is an important consideration.

Well, I live in northern Colorado and plan to ride on all dry days in the winter to work (26 mile RT). I'm more concerned with it starting up when cold - and synthetic doesn't get as sludgy in the cold. I still plan on changing around every 4000 miles or at least once a year.

Any other cold weather tips (aside from staying warm and road conditions) - like bike prep? Should I keep the gas tank full and use a stabilizer?

You must like to spend money.

WalMart 10-40 works-----My miles= 4 Helix each running 36-50000 miles, before trade in, Reflex run over at 22,000 miles, Yamaha TMAX 11,000 miles and now SilverWing @10,000 miles----Also ran it in my new and used Miata. We can throw in my Concours traded at 56,000 miles, My Suzuki GS500E which did 62,000 miles in 15 months. The stuff works. I have had no engine trouble. All of the above were purchased new except one Miata. So I know their history.


John Grinsel


Several years ago I had test I did on Helix with Mobil 1 and WalMart= no performance difference over measured course. Test was published.

Quite honestly - oil is oil. I know it is imbued with all kinds of mystical properties and to borrow a quote from Frank Zappa, "you might not believe this little fellow, but it'll cure your asthma too."

Use the manufacturers recommended viscosity, change it andthe filter regularly, and don't lose too much sleep over it.

Might want to add something---I change oil every 2,000 miles or 60 days which ever comes first. Gets junk out of engine.Filter every other change.

Tempurature----I think internal temperatures are pretty much stable in Water Cooled engines. Honda recommends 10-30 for Silverwing----try to find it in non energy conserving MA except from them for near $7 a quart. Rip off. The do same for my Honda CRV (I don't drive it) 0-20 mineral---try to find it except from them at $8 a quart---I asked dealer, for routine oil changes they use "house oil" from 55 gallon drum. Bought at low bid.

Bottom line: very few scooters get used enough in the US to wear their engines out. Noodle delivery men in Japan with the cubs just let engines, air cooled run all day---no trouble, just throw bike away every couple of years and get another----same for deliverymen in Korea where scooter is used in commercial delivery work, other stuff goes wrong before engine wears out.

Another great thing about Honda engines, they seem to be able to take wide open running all the time with no damage.

John Grinsel

Yesss...
I am with Dale and John.

Good brand ,cheap oil ,according specs, will do.

That engine can do 150 kMiles .

Keep your money.
For whiskey,cigarettes, and wild wild woman.

Is there poor-quality oil on the market?
I doubt it, especially in the US and Western Europe (and Australia).

When I think of the stuff we used to put in our car engines 40 years ago.........!

eddy wrote:

Yesss...
I am with Dale and John.

Gee eddy I appreciate the support, but you might want to keep your hat pulled down low so your friends don't recognize you.

I don't want to minimize anyones concern, especially that of the original poster. I do not think switching from dino to synth will cause any damage at all. I think the two will play well with each other and the amount of dino left in the crank case will (by volume) be quite small.

And John, you change that often? I quote a wise sage: "You must like to spend money."

Now Dale...Give old John a break. He's on his 3rd retirement, 71 years old and still loves to ride.

John, If you can still get down on the ground next to your scooter and get the drain plug and filter off, more power to you....Change that oil as often as you want.

GaryL wrote:

The other advantage of full synthetic oil is heat tolerance. Synthetics will take a lot more heat than Dino oil and still do it's job. In the Arizona desert in Summer, it is an important consideration.

What you say is true of air cooled engines but not necessarily so with water cooled engines. The internal temperatures are pretty much the same in hot or cold weather. The main difference is that engines warm up more rapidly to operating temperature in hot weather than in the cold which could be an argument that the hot weather is beneficial. I had an oil temp guage on the engine and one on the transmission of my old Dodge diesel truck that carried our camper. The transmission oil temp did rise somewhat in hot weather especially when climbing a grade but the engine oil temp pretty much remained the same all the time in all weather once the engine was at operating temperature. The reason that different weights of oil are recommended for different operating temperatures is because overly thick oil puts a strain on the starting system and cold thick oil is more difficult to circulate through a cold engine. Other than that the ideal would be to run the heaviest weigtht oil you can push through the bearings and oil galleries.

Exavid,

Good Information. Thanks!

You don't need to do anything other than a normal oil change. Synthetic and regular oil are completely compatible, and the amount of residual oil is minute, and would be left over during any regular oil change anyway.

Keep in mind synthetic provides no more, and no different protection than regular oil, it simply degrades slower, and thus keeps its protective qualities longer than regular oil.

Dale :Gee eddy I appreciate the support, but you might want to keep your hat pulled down low so your friends don't recognize you.
-------------------------------

I understand the words but not the intention.

Well, if you're going to align your opinion with mine, you may not want your friends to know that..

I like to see theory that matches the facts.
I have no knowledge of engines , prematurely worn and always have used mineral oil.
Of course with normal driving and a minimum of maintenance.

And Dale ...
Your younger sister in your avatar looks cute.

Whats the deal with the Synthetic stuff anyway?
Myself I have always used the "Dipstick / Mileage / Age" standard for my oil and never have had a problem.
The above standard passes if; 1) oil on stick and clean looking / smelling, 2) under 4K miles, 3) Can I remember the last change!
I am considering this stuff only because of the small capacity of the oil system VS the engine displacement bike weight.
Are the benefits worth the xtra $$$

Thanks for the input!

Frenchie
MSCS(SW)
USN RET

I use mineral oil according the specs from Honda.
But from a good brand, then i am pretty sure the oil is, what the text on the container claims.
Cheapest (safe) way i think.

My opinion is based on observations during 40 years.

Never noticed a premature worn engine...

- When there is oil in..
- When not abused
- When the cold starts are at normal numbers.
( never buy a car from a medical doctor )

More over...
The modern oil is a lot better then 30 years ago .

Eddy.

[quote="russcarver"Virtually all synthetic oil bottles attest to being OK to mix. I was an Amsoil dealer, but recently switched to Mobil 1 0W30 (green label/bottle cap) because you can get the 5-qt jug so cheap (25.82) at wallyworld vs 30 for 1 gal of Amsoil. Yes, Amsoil is clearly a superior lubricant, but simply not worth twice the price. I also use the Fram Tough Guard oil filter which is synthetic material and lasts up to 10K. Happy trails! p.s. I am talking about motor oil for CARS - they have friction modifiers which make your engine spin more freely (less effort = longer engine life and better engine efficiency). Motorcycle oils do NOT have friction modifiers.

I'm going to switch to synthetic when I get to 4000 miles here in less than a month. I would like to do this myself and have read myriad of posts and feel that I am ready. However, my question is regarding the actual switching of oils.

Do I need to do anything in particular to get rid of all the old dino oil? Or will it be fine to combine the synthetic with the leftover dino that adheres to all the various parts? This would be for the main engine oil and the final drive oil.

Thanks!

--Russ[/quote]