High Viz versus Cool

I just started riding, I did a lot of Personal Injury cases back in my early career and so I opted for what I thought was a "no-brainer" decision on the type of jacket - High Visibility Yellow-Green. I got this one:

http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/1/1/39/10312/ITEM/Tour-Master-Transition-Series-2-Jacket.aspx?WT.ac=SLIsearch

However on my first ride today I ran into perhaps 50-70 other bikers and not one - not a single one had a fleck of high visibility anything on. The majority were in black leather, the next most popular was black/grey fabric combinations.

Of course safety first but I also don't want my jacket screaming NEWB - what do you were for colours? I'm actually considering sending the high viz jacket back and going for something more middle of the road and getting the same jacket in the black/red combination.

I go for high visibility too and not just because in the Army it' a requirement. It just makes sense. The vast majority of motorcycle accidents happen simply because the rider wasn't seen. So I will wear my neon yellow jacket, and white helmet with silver visor on my bright red Silverwing. Let the "cool" guys be the statistics.

This is my jacket:

http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/Mobile/ItemPage.aspx?DivisionGroupId=1&DivisionId=1&DepartmentId=39&ItemStyleId=15019

We have a lot of members who go with the high-vis. Just think of the riders you see and who you notice. I'd rather be safe than sorry. People do all kinds of things to make their bikes more visable, but balk at making themselves more visable. As Homer would say "Doh",

Hi-Viz and still here or cool and a statistic?
I know which I'd choose!
Acquit, stick with the jacket, we were all newbs once. Better seen than sorry.

I wear a HiViz H-belt over whichever jacket I'm wearing to ride.

http://www.oxford-shop.co.uk/item3298.htm

I work on the principle that it gives other road-users a greater chance of seeing me - I'm under no illusions that they will all be looking!

It also has the advantage that it puts HiViz on my shoulders - a yellow jacket I had before had black shoulders and the Hiviz back was hidden from behind by my topbox.

We touched on the subject of Hi-Vis on another thread.

Here in the UK so many other folk wear Hi-Vis clothing during their normal lives that the effect of the high visibility clothing is somewhat nulled by the amount of the stuff on the roads.

All our emergency services use it. All roadside maintenance workers wear it. People walking their children to school wear it. Dustbin/dustcart operators use it. Cyclists wear it. So it kinda blends into your normal visual cues on any one day.

I wear it on my bike, it keeps the mem saab quiet otherwise I really wouldn't bother myself. My jacket has built in 'grey' areas which when light is shone on them glows better than any yellow/orange Hi-Vis clothing that is manufactured. Now the Hi-Vis reflective stripes for night wear - another story, worth it's weight in gold, its effectiveness in daytime however is somewhat limited in my opinion.

The best bike avoidance is your own visual awareness of the dangers and hazards around you and then ride to those criteria. I ride as I was taught. Everyone out there is my potential murderer so treat them accordingly.

That looks a great improvement over the Hi Viz Sam Browne belts which you you still occasionally see worn by motorcyclists of a certain age. You're right about your body been hidden behind the top box, my Icon vest also has black shoulders. There's a large reflective Icon logo across it but thats only useful at night.

Here in the local papers a local yob has had his Community Service increased for repeatedly refusing to wear his Hi Viz vest when out working. We could learn from the US here, by supervising him and others with a large shotgun toting guard mounted on a horse, and watching his every move behind a pair of mirror shades!

The truth is it doesn't matter what colour you wear if drivers don't look out for you. Years ago a test was done with a group of riders wearing white helmets and those wearing black to see what the difference in accident rate would be, and there was none!

Wear what you want to wear, but Waspie is right, your best defence on a bike is situational awareness, not what colour jacket you have.

Ride safe!

A factor to consider is where you live and the density of the population and road traffic. I live in Cumbria which has a population density of 190 sq/m compared to the 1730 sq/m you have in Surrey. I hardly ever have to filter on traffic clogged roads full of frustrated car drivers so I don't wear a Hi Viz vest all the time. I rate wearing a back protector and earplugs far higher.

Another side of the coin is the amount of UK riders wearing dark visors all year round, they may think it looks cool but it's another thing the insurance companies will use as a get out clause if the rider is invoved in an accident at night, or on short winter days.

x

I switched from black to hi-viz about a year ago. Not just a hi-viz jacket, but a "tennis ball head" Scorpion EXO-700 neon helmet. Like many who have replied on this thread, I am less concerned with how other people perceive my riding gear and more concerned with whether it's perceived at all. Although completely anecdotal with no supporting statistics, many drivers and other riders, while stopped at a gas station, convenience store or other such place along my route, have complimented my riding gear and remarked how easily visible I appear in traffic.

Wearing hi-viz is no guarantee of safety. I believe hi-viz increases the likelihood of other drivers seeing me. But being seen is only part of the equation. There are other techniques to assist drivers understanding how quickly I may be approaching them and my intentions in traffic. A good rider should exude confidence on the roadway without behaving aggressively. Formerly a public school bus driver, my training emphasized that the greatest safety feature in any vehicle is the driver. And I believe the same is true for the motorcycle's rider. Hi-viz helps, but it doesn't work alone.

"It's not paranoia if you know the bastards are out to get you."

Hi-viz is a good idea, because every time there is a cage - bike accident, the cager claims "I didn't see ..." even tho you made eye to eye contact with it.

Jon

Your Transition 2 jacket is one of the ones that was on my short list when I had to replace my old faithful TourMaster Flex Series I jacket. The old jacket was black, but not to fit into any kind of image. I thought perhaps I'd get some solar heat in the cooler months from the black color. I didn't. It was just as cold as anything else for 10 months out of the year, and for the other two months of "summer", it was extremely hot.

You'll find many large group rides with guys on their Harleys, and other cruisers. They want to fit an image. So you'll see them all dress in black. Leather preferably. And with shorty helmets. All because it looks cool.

You'll also find they have very little experience. Some may have been riding for 20 years. I like the way someone put it regarding the riders of "garage queens". They have 1 year of experience...repeated 20 times.

I've put on over 60,000 miles commuting in the Seattle area in the past 5 years and only hit my brakes hard because of someone pulling out in front of me maybe 5-6 times. Much of that I believe is because the other motorists see me.

By the way, when I replaced my jacket, I got the Olympia GT Air Transition jacket in hi-vis yellow, and my helmet is in hi-vis yellow. You can't miss me. Of course you might also hit me because of target fixation...

Chris

I think your Hi Viz jacket looks bad ass.

They want to fit an image. So you'll see them all dress in black. Leather preferably.

That's another reason for the H-belt; I can take it off and shove it in my topbox, thus allowing me to pose in my leather jacket.

DuggleBogey wrote:

I think your Hi Viz jacket looks bad ass.

You're my best friend now DuggleBogey! -)

OK Next question, I'm a big guy - the jacket I got is a 4XL as I have a 54" chest, mostly from eating too much but I do weights also. My Transition is good in the chest and shoulders but a little snug on the gut - does anyone know if a company makes a 4XLB (so it is a little roomier in the gut area)?

Thanks - I tried getting a High Viz helmet also but I couldn't find any that were flip up/modular and as I have glasses that seemed like a must.

Acquit wrote:

I tried getting a High Viz helmet also but I couldn't find any that were flip up/modular and as I have glasses that seemed like a must.

There are a number of fine helmets out there. I have been quite partial to the Scorpion brand, so I am considering the EXO-900 Neon for a future purchase. My EXO-700 Neon full-face is fairly new, so I might not get the modular EXO-900 until next year.

http://www.stdreams.com/catalog/images/imagecache/150x164_scorpion-exo-900-neon-yellow.jpg

I have a High Vis Jacket and it DOES make a difference.The first 2 years I rode with Black Leather for the cool factor 80 miles round trip every day . What I began to realize was I also got use to close calls at least twice a day.Since I went to High Vis Green I have less than 2 a week.
Stay with High Vis your still cool on a Swing.

Yep on the extra measurement (stomach).I found Fox Creek Leather ask for that measurement when ordering.Along with several others to make sure it fits perfectly.

x

Ugh, glasses. I hated my glasses when I wore full helmets. Glasses off, helmet on, visor up, glasses on, visor down...sheesh. The glasses sometimes hurt my ears too because my helmet was probably too small, I was afraid of it being loose. Oh back in the 80's I was so stupid.

Lasik surgery and a half helmet with a smoke sheld....I pop it on, buckle it and go!

I've worn Hi Viz for a few years now. Just bought a Hein Gericke jacket - super bright.

'There is no street cred in traction'

Cheers,

I do not think that there is a down-side to HiVis, it is compulsory for many things in the UK, in much of Europe you have to have a HiVis waistcoat in the car in case of breakdown. The French are thinking of making HiVis mandatory for motorcyclists and many people wear it voluntarily in the UK.
The waistcoats are cheap and can be thrown away when they finally do not respond to laundering (a disadvantage of the yellow jackets).
Never mind fashion and biker image, you can never be too visible IMHO !!

You gotta do what works for you and not worry about what others think.

I wear a bright yellow Frank Thomas armored jacket, a white HJC flip helmet, armored and abrasion resistant undergarments under heavy duty Carhartt jeans. No one has said diddly about it to me.

I visited a friend in the hospital today who ran into a car which turned left in front of him yesterday. No serious injuries and he's being released this afternoon. His armored jacket and helmet and other gear did exactly what they were supposed to do.

I know I'm mixing visibility and protection, but I consider them to be all the same. I'm wearing my gear every time I get on the bike. Others may have other opinions...maybe it will increase my visibility, maybe it won't...the car driver who turned in front of my friend apparently didn't see him...but I'm wearing it all...

When I was getting on my bike at work I overheard two guys with cruiser bikes making fun of the hi-vis jackets and helmets. So there is a stigma attached to them. Not that I would let that bother me. One of them was wearing an Ed Hardy helmet, and I wouldn't get caught dead in that.

x

I don't wear Hi Viz but sure wouldn't ridicule anyone else for doing so. As for cruiser riders sneering at anyone... most of them don't ride enough to know what riding is. Look at the mileage of some of those 'manly Harleys' for sale on Craigslist.

@TRider wrote:

The truth is it doesn't matter what colour you wear if drivers don't look out for you. Years ago a test was done with a group of riders wearing white helmets and those wearing black to see what the difference in accident rate would be, and there was none!

Wear what you want to wear, but Waspie is right, your best defence on a bike is situational awareness, not what colour jacket you have.

Ride safe!

Situational awareness - agree completely. Colors make a difference? I think the jury is still out on that one but I wear it because it could make a difference even with my top box. Even if it doesn't, I will take the odds that my hi-vis is seen sooner than non-hi-vis and that helps reduce the likelihood that I will be injured even if that particular study could not prove it out. :-)

KB

I agree, the people who say it DEFINITELY makes a difference are just as wrong as people who say it definitely doesn't.

It may make a difference. It may not. If you think it makes you look foolish and stupid, don't wear it. If you think wearing it makes you more visible and someone talking on a cell phone and eating a cheeseburger at the same time won't pull out in front of you, wear it.

I actually think Hi-Viz looks very cool in the right style. The helmets look cool. The little harness H-belt things, not so much, unless you are going for the grammar school crossing guard look. Opinions vary.

People who say "I don't care at all how I look" are lying. Everybody cares at least a little bit how they look. Scooter riders less so than Harley customers for sure, but we still don't want to look like idiots.

I respect the original poster for having the guts to say he felt a little funny when he saw he was the only one out there with Hi Viz on. His instinct was correct, there are some people who think Hi Viz makes you look foolish. Those people are shallow and wrong, BUT SO ARE THE PEOPLE WHO THINK YOU CAN'T BE TOO CAREFUL. Of course you can be too careful.

You have to live your life, and that's going to imply some risk. Do your best at what makes you most comfortable and safe. As long as you are still having fun, that's the most you can expect.

I wear Yellow summer jacket----wore out Darien Yellow (Aerostich) jacket, have collection of dirty yellow vests------these are all maybe some insurance of somebody seeing you-----but don't count on it with the idiots driving in N America, also white helmets seem to be easy to be seen.

But based on actual experience-----Cop Motorcycle, black and white, lots of lites, POLICE on front of Fairing and POLICE on back of jacket-----people seem to see. Shoot them some lites and many wet their pants.

Had actual experience----Taught long ago WASH State Police course for new bikes they had acquired for special use-----got issued Police HD to ride back and forth while course was conducted----people seemed to see you! Even had old fashioned police rub on rear wheel siren stick on-----hard to get over to side for me to fix as everybody was getting out of my way------wonder if that works today with all the idiots on phones/texting/, etc on the road.

Any tool a rider can use to be seen/proper positioned/alert/try to figure out what is going down next, helps. Worst people are coming out of church=watch out. They can kill you and not even mean it.....old and near blind, etc.

Best is still to develop both aggressive offensive and defensive skills. Superior machine handling skills.




John Grinsel

Is anyone actually saying that HiViz will protect a rider from collisions?
I think not but try telling a soldier in Afghanistan to leave his camo gear back at base, go on patrol wearing a HiViz jacket and see what the reaction is.
I suspect he may decline because his camoes make him less easy to see, not because it will prevent him from becoming a target.

As for the H-belt 'crossing-guard' look; in the UK, Lollipop men and women wear full-length HiViz coats.
I don't often get the hump on here but that remark is patronizing in the extreme.
I can wear my H-belt over any of my jackets, winter or summer, and am therefore not restricted by it or to it.

It's interesting reading about attitudes to wearing Hi Viz gear, here in the UK and in Germany and the Benelux countries you see riders wearing it almost on a daily basis. I've had holidays over in the US for the last two years and I can't remember seeing any riders wearing it. Just a uniform Easy Rider look of black leather, engineers boots, fingerless gloves, brain bucket helmets, and wraparound shades. I thought at least I would see an Aerostich clad rider or two out on the Interstates, and I didn't spot one of those either.

Unfortunately, a large portion of the riders in the US ride 'Cruisers' in all their flavors, where 'the LOOK' is all important. Goldwing riders are a mix of textile jackets, leather, and a few hi-viz. BMW riders are very likely to have some type of hi-viz on, be it a helmet, jacket, or variants of the H belt/vest (or all of the above). I wear a black mesh jacket with hi-viz piping on it. It probably doesn't do much good during the day, but it lights up like a neon sign at night. My next jacket will be hi-viz.

MikeO wrote:

As for the H-belt 'crossing-guard' look; in the UK, Lollipop men and women wear full-length HiViz coats.
I don't often get the hump on here but that remark is patronizing in the extreme.
I can wear my H-belt over any of my jackets, winter or summer, and am therefore not restricted by it or to it.

I'm glad that comment upset you, that was the point. It's my opinion that wearing a H-belt makes you look like a crossing guard. And my opinion should be meaningless to you. But it isn't. We care what others think.

I had no idea that crossing guards are called lollipop men over there, that's hilarious. I guess because they hold up signs shaped like big lollipops?

I think the full length Hi Viz coats look cool, you probably think they might make me look like a lollipop woman. Maybe that should bother me, but it doesn't because I actually do like the way they look. Maybe not the full trench coat look, but I think Daryl's is very cool.

I'm only upset by dirty Tennessee bathrooms. Maybe they should consider Hi-Viz toilet paper.

x

DuggleBogey wrote:

People who say "I don't care at all how I look" are lying.

I guess you can call me 'Billy Liar' then.

I care not what anyone thinks or feels about my riding attire.

After many - many years in the military of having the **** ripped out of me for what I wore I am pretty thick skinned to taunts and jibes about how I appear.

I wear what I wear for me and no-one else.

Meldrew wrote:

It's interesting reading about attitudes to wearing Hi Viz gear, here in the UK and in Germany and the Benelux countries you see riders wearing it almost on a daily basis. I've had holidays over in the US for the last two years and I can't remember seeing any riders wearing it.... I thought at least I would see an Aerostich clad rider or two out on the Interstates, and I didn't spot one of those either.

The intelligent Aerostich, etc. clad riders are seldom on the Interstate highways, they tend to be on "dual purpose" bikes on gravel (at best) roads. The "cruiser" types would be scared half to death if the pavement got a bit gnarly. IMHO.

Jon

I dress bright on the cycle and can handle the "image damage" of the the hi viz. lt is a better look than than how I would look in a casket(wearing a dark suit). I will be wearing that dark suit for a long long time, so while I have a choice I am going all out bright. You should see the bright colors of the bike jerseys I wear while bike riding. I was one of the first people I know to wear bike helmets when they were way uncool and looked like crude hockey helmets. Hi viz helps me manage the risk of riding to the extent that I can. Almost anything reasonable I can do to tip the risk in my favor I will do.

I just traded my old blue mesh jacket for a day glo Firstgear Mesh Tex Jacket. Man, that thing is HI VIZ. I really don't give a rat's ass whether anyone thinks I look like a crossing guard or not. And, what's wrong with the crossing guard look? If you're more worried about what other people think about how you look, rather than about what would happen to your ass if it goes sliding down the pavement, then have at it. I'm 74 years old, and I've reached the DGARA stage on most everything.

x

Check out the reviews for this jacket:

http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/1/1/39/22216/ITEM/Fieldsheer-Slip-On-Jacket.aspx

"you can remove the pads from shoulders cuz they kinda look weird."

"The armadillo armor appears to be good quality, but I did remove the shoulder armor. They were just too goofy looking and uncomfortable."

"the shoulder pads are unusually large. My girlfriend wouldn't stop calling me linebacker, so I had to remove them for fear of looking like a goof."

Most people will almost always sacrifice safety if they think something makes them not look cool.

x

The original post was about whether wearing hi viz made you look like a newb, wasn't it?

I contend that while most people will claim that they don't care how they look, most people care about how they are perceived a lot more than they let on, and that that's okay too.

Wanting to look cool is fine, even important to some people. If you TRULY HONESTLY don't care about how you look, that's great for you, but this thread isn't for you.

There is a stigma attached to wearing some safety gear in certain places to certain people. I know you shouldn't care if some strangers somewhere are laughing at you, but I think you'll find that most people at the very least want to know if it is happening, and might care about it.

The fact is, if something makes me look foolish, I don't wear it. I'll find something else to wear or I'll not do the activity that requires it. I don't like feeling foolish or having to explain myself to people.

That is not to say that wearing Hi Viz makes you look foolish. I don't think it always does. But some people do, and just saying "it doesn't matter if you look foolish" isn't helping. I personally think riding a motorcycle wearing flip-flops and shorts makes you look REALLY foolish, and I'd never do it.

I'm not 74 and if I'm lucky enough to live that long I hope I still care how I look, at least a little bit. My wife's grandmother is 93 and she still cares a great deal about her appearance. I'd say looking dignified is the most important thing to her. She's earned every bit of her dignity.

I know your priorities change as you get older, and you definitely don't care as much about "being cool." I know my attitudes have changed vastly from when I was younger and stupider. Maybe I'm still stupid but I still care how other people see me sometimes. And I don't think there's anything wrong with it. And I also don't think I'm alone.

After a time Hi Viz gear can look really scruffy, it gets dirty from road spray and sunlight fades it. I've got an Italian made Clover jacket and the hi viz yellow panels on it have faded and look grubby. I occasionally wash and reproof it, but who wants to be doing that all the time just to look presentable.

I really like what Olympia Moto Sports produce, and they have some quality hi viz gear like the Bushwhacker and AST jackets, and the Phantom one piece suit. The downside is road spray is going to make them look decidedly second hand within a year unless you're wearing a rainsuit over them, and that kind of defeats the object of buying the hi viz versions.

DuggleBogey wrote:

The original post was about whether wearing hi viz made you look like a newb, wasn't it?

I contend that while most people will claim that they don't care how they look, most people care about how they are perceived a lot more than they let on, and that that's okay too.

Wanting to look cool is fine, even important to some people. If you TRULY HONESTLY don't care about how you look, that's great for you, but this thread isn't for you.

There is a stigma attached to wearing some safety gear in certain places to certain people. I know you shouldn't care if some strangers somewhere are laughing at you, but I think you'll find that most people at the very least want to know if it is happening, and might care about it.

The fact is, if something makes me look foolish, I don't wear it. I'll find something else to wear or I'll not do the activity that requires it. I don't like feeling foolish or having to explain myself to people.

That is not to say that wearing Hi Viz makes you look foolish. I don't think it always does. But some people do, and just saying "it doesn't matter if you look foolish" isn't helping. I personally think riding a motorcycle wearing flip-flops and shorts makes you look REALLY foolish, and I'd never do it.

I'm not 74 and if I'm lucky enough to live that long I hope I still care how I look, at least a little bit. My wife's grandmother is 93 and she still cares a great deal about her appearance. I'd say looking dignified is the most important thing to her. She's earned every bit of her dignity.

I know your priorities change as you get older, and you definitely don't care as much about "being cool." I know my attitudes have changed vastly from when I was younger and stupider. Maybe I'm still stupid but I still care how other people see me sometimes. And I don't think there's anything wrong with it. And I also don't think I'm alone.

I didn't say I didn't care how I looked. I said I didn't give a rat's ass how YOU thought I looked.

DuggleBogey, I don't believe you have any authority to say what thread is for whom, sorry. The thread is as titled. I believe the OP wanted comments from all of us. That includes those who believe high viz is important as well as those who believe "cool" is the thing. You're entitled to your opinion. You are not entitled to tell me what opinion I can post.

Meldrew, most rain suits I've seen are high viz so you can have both - protect your jacket from spray yet remain high viz. The jacket's right there when the weather breaks and you remain high viz of course. Admittedly not a big concern for me here in Texas. It almost never rains here and what little it does my jacket's rainproof zip-out shell is quite sufficient enough to handle.

When I said the thread wasn't "for" you I meant it wasn't about you. I think that's fairly obvious.

And please point out to me where I tell you what opinions you can post? I encourage everyone to post their opinions on every topic on this board. To suggest otherwise offends me.

thomphoto wrote:

I didn't say I didn't care how I looked. I said I didn't give a rat's ass how YOU thought I looked.

Something about involving the hindquarters of a rodent mislead me into thinking that. Please forgive my misunderstanding.

You're still wrong. It is indeed as much about me and anyone else who believes in high viz and what it looks like "cool" or otherwise. You're not in any position to say what thread is for whom.