Wing versus integra.

Well I know this is going to be controversial ,but is the big wing better than the integra ? The wing needs some serious upgrades agreed? The wing needs too take a leaf out of the new 2014 pcx s book. L.E.D lighting { less strain on battery}. Dare I say idle /stop start on a big scoot .Plus a updated dash ,and a electric adjustable screen /bmw. Too me the integra is not a scoot its a semi /automatic motorcycle .The central tunnel is a concern as is the chain drive and the lack of storage under the seat.So why don't Honda listen and upgrade the wing?We don't need the integra .Whats your thoughts people ?

Wow woodworker, I'd bet the guys over at the big school there in Oxford would revoke your citizenship. As I am a writer it is hard for me to quickly gather the gist of your writing. It takes several times to decipher. I will give you credit for one of the more amusing uses of the word "Too". I've only ever seen it used after the word "me" as in "me too". Generally see your phrase begin thus, "To me..."

I only mention it because my language is based on that of England and I usually expect those who live in Great Britain to use a more formal style.

I know this isn't a language site, so I'll retreat into the shade again. You and tinman could develop a code book.

You asked for my thoughts....

Now as for 'whats my thoughts' on the two bikes Integra vs. Silverwing.

The Constant Velocity Transmission (CVT) as executed in the Silverwing is very inefficient.  That is why it guzzles petrol at high speeds.  The BMW also uses a CVT so that is not an improvement.  The chain drive of the Integra could be viewed as a bit of a hassle.  I would have preferred a belt or shaft.  Cost and weight are the biggest factors preventing a shaft, well those and the lack of a transmission.  Belt with a large sprocket (ala big Harley Davidson) may be too much of a philosophical shift for Honda, plus no transmission.  Chains are not really that much of a turn off to me.  A bit of maintenance; Cleaning is not that hard. Adjustment is a bit more of a pill. But anything other than a CVT requires a transmission. There is that heavy set up that Suzuki uses, but I'm not certain that's better.

Light Emitting Diode (LED) lighting systems will become more prominent, but they aren't standard on entry level Fords or Opels.  Cost is prohibitive if other systems are also pushing the price point up.  And the current battery can manage the demand so why change just to give more of what is not needed?

I don't understand the statement - "Dare I say idle /stop start on a big scoot .", but I defend your right to say it.

An updated dash.  Would be nice but again the cost point.  Is it needed?  Were I Honda the question I'd have to ask is - Can we afford the costly engineering of new main board just to satisfy the desires of a few on a low sales volume bike and will the customer be willing to pay for it?

Electric screen - You almost have me with this one.  I don't think this became standard on the Goldwing until 2012.  There is some additional weight associated with this feature.  It is the one thing I would like to see happen.  It won't though.

I've not had a chance to see an Integra up close.  We have many other 700cc options here in the states and I doubt it will ever make it over here.  All of the 700cc bikes Honda offers here are all chain driven except for the no longer manufactured NC 700 which has a shaft.

I'm happy with the Silver Wing as it is, the OE screen is rubbish but so was the OE screen on all the other maxis I've owned, and like many others I sorted the Silver Wing out fitting an Airflow. It doesn't need an electric screen, I had one on my 650 Burgman and I had to change that for a taller Secdem, and once the novelty of raising and lowering it wears off, it's just another screen.

The Silver Wing instruments are fine, the speedo is in MPH and the KPH ring is also easy to read, I don't want or need stop/start as I'm not in city traffic all day long and I'd ride something smaller if I was.  I do find it useful on my Smart car driving in York but using it constantly in London last year was tiring. The SW-T has updated instruments but no 12v socket in the glovebox.

I prefer the stacked headlights on the Silver to to twin headlights of the Burgmans I've owned and I dislike the one on/ one off set up used on many current maxi scooters including the Silver Wing SWT-600.

The Integra I couldn't care less about, I can ride a motorcycle so I'm not restricted to pushing paddle switches on a few DCT Hondas, the Aprilia Mana, or anything else Auto only licence holders are restricted to here in the UK. I've nothing against chain drive but it would have to be enclosed like the old East German MZ two-strokes I used to ride.

I wouldn't want the extra expense of having to kit out an Integra with a set of panniers and top box to get decent storage capacity either.

jdeereanton wrote:

my language is based on that of England and I usually expect those who live in Great Britain to use a more formal style.

Sadly, too many Britons have become lazy and unimaginitive where use of language is concerned.

I blame texting and social media. Spelling has suffered as a direct consequence.

 

woodworker wrote:

L.E.D lighting { less strain on battery}. Dare I say idle /stop start  on a big scoot .

I sure wish more people understood the charging system of the Silverwing before making statements like this.
In a nutshell, the alternator of the Swing puts out maximum charging current all the time. The rotor's magnetic field is constant. Any excess current not required to charge the battery and run the electrics is dumped to ground through a heatsink in the regulator. You needn't worry about a Silverwing's battery discharging even at idle. It is designed to power everything, including the high beam, at idle. In fact, it is overproducing, even at idle, unless you are running some high current accessory draws, like heated grips or clothing. So replacing your incandescent bulbs on a Silvering with LED's isn't helping anything. In fact, it is shortening the life of your voltage regulator by making it run hotter.

As for the LEDs vs standard lights, when the engine is running, they don't get power from the battery, so there is no load there. And Bigbird is 100% right with the regulator. In fact, that regulator was designed with a MINIMUM load in mind, not just a maximum load.  The closer you are to the output wattage of the regulator, the less load you are putting on the regulator and turning to heat (heat destroys the shunting diodes in the regulator eventually). Run that regulator with no load, and it will die before it would die with full load.

As for screen, I've never adjusted my adjustable Givi - I just set it the way I like it and left it there.  But if you like an adjustable screen, I imagine the Integra is nicer.

I like the CVT - I like it adapting to my speed, so I don't need to worry about entering a corner in the wrong gear.  I think the DCT looks pretty neat too, though.

As for the engine stopping at idle, I don't do much city riding so I can't really comment.  I've never been at a stoplight and said, "I like the Swing, but I really wish the engine wasn't turning right now."  

These are pretty minor differences - and I suspect Honda will add things like this to a future Silverwing or replacement.  But Honda likes making things for the long haul (the Helix was made for, what, 20 years or so, with only minor changes - most of the parts from a 2008 Helix fit a 1988 Helix), and that's kind of nice for those of us who still own one and don't want to get rid of it when the next new bike comes out.  It means they'll have incentive to keep making parts.

That said, I'm keeping an eye on that DCT technology.  I don't like the complexity of that transmission (I'm comfortable fixing anything in the Silverwing's transmission - I'm not sure that would be true on a DCT), but if anyone can manage to make it well, Honda can.  One of the things I really like about the Swing is that the complex parts of the bike are relatively isolated - it's got a fuel injection system which is complex, and the ABS+Combined brake system is pretty complex.  But everything else is very simple, even the transmission.  That makes it pretty easy to fix, even if you do have to remove a bunch of plastic first.

Meldrew wrote:

I'm happy with the Silver Wing as it is, the OE screen is rubbish but so was the OE screen on all the other maxis I've owned, and like many others I sorted the Silver Wing out fitting an Airflow. It doesn't need an electric screen, I had one on my 650 Burgman and I had to change that for a taller Secdem, and once the novelty of raising and lowering it wears off, it's just another screen.

I agree with Meldrew that the OE windshield on the SW isn't all that great and neither was the one on the Burgman that I had either. I am, however, pretty well impressed
with the electrically powered windshield on the BMW 650GT. It not only moves up and down a goodly amount but also varys its rake angle as it moves up and down, more toward vertical as it moves up and a lower rake angle as it lowers. It's also nearly twice as thick as the OEM screens on the SW and Burgman. At freeway speeds I don't feel any helmet buffeting at all. It's at least as good as the Givi adjustable I put on my SW.

Apologise for my grammar j deereanton ha .I really strirred the mix up here . Good to get everyones views . Maybe I should publish a code book with the aid of tinman .At the end of the day as jdeeranton rightly says sales dictate to a certain extent what will be available on the future scooter market.Lets hope its something amazing.Now I am off for a English lesson ha .   

woodworker, You are a good sport. I'd ride with you any day.

Big bucks for bike/scooter with open chain is stupid. Current SilverWing which I just purchased is just fine....leftovers are all that is left in US.....price was right for me...silver wheels a real plus. As this is my second new SilverWing---I knew from start what scooter needs to be rideable---GIVI rack and top box, GIVI passenger back rest, front mudflap and simple throttle stop from Aerostich------some features missing from stock SilverWing and MPG computer/heated grips/electric plug in/temp gauge (nice to know how cold you are).

Plenty of tire choices are available for SilverWing at decent prices----disadvantage of SilverWing is every 20,000 miles the expense of drive belt/rollers (my change interval based on 300,000 miles rubber band drive experience) But open chain/sprockets ain't cheap either and only last with lots of oil slopped on. I do still have one bike with open chain...my garage floor spotted with drips.

I am not holding breath for Integra and DCT.

Thanks jdeereanton, humour is one of the joys of life ,did I spell life correct ?   

I think one of the nicest things about the Silverwing is that it IS a mature, flexible design.
As a result there are a myriad of aftermarket options that can be used to make the scooter
into whatever it is you need it to be.

I have seen it made into a touring bike, a round-town mule, a camper, a trike, a trailer puller,
a superbike (as much as a scooter can be "super":70hp, turbocharged, nitrous), a golf caddy, and an animal transport.
It has had plastic removed and set up like a big ruckus, had car seats installed for comfort, and the engine has even been adapted to power a snowmobile.

The scooter has made Key west to Alaska runs, and some users have reported over 100k miles and still going strong.

People have put enough lights on it to send up a bat signal, added heated everything, power everything, and I've never seen anyone who actually put so much stuff on that they taxed the wing's charging systems. Lightweight high-cap batteries are available for those who do. I've
even added solar panels to my bike to keep the charge topped off when I was afraid I put too much demand on it, but it turns out I needn't have worried.

If Honda were to do anything for this bike, it would be to create dealer-installable packages for touring or cold weather for instance.  However when I wrote a letter to Honda suggesting this, I got a polite response from their lawyer saying "Don't give us any ideas because we might be working on something similar and we don't want you to sue us saying we stole your ideas"

Your welcome Honda.

woodworker wrote:

Well I know  this is going to be controversial ,but is the big wing better than the integra ? The wing needs some serious upgrades agreed? The wing needs too take a leaf out of the new 2014 pcx s book. L.E.D lighting { less strain on battery}. Dare I say idle /stop start  on a big scoot .Plus a updated dash ,and a electric adjustable screen /bmw. Too me the integra is not a scoot its a semi /automatic motorcycle .The central tunnel is a concern as is the chain drive and  the lack of storage under the seat.So why don't Honda listen and upgrade the wing?We don't need the integra .Whats your thoughts people ?

I'll put my blunt Yorkshireman hat on here lad, you've neither owned or ridden a Silverwing so how do you know it needs serious upgrades?


You chose a big wheeled single cylinder step through with an upright riding position with little or no underseat storage and a skimpy handlebar mounted windscreen.

Maybe it's you that should upgrade to a twin cylinder maxi scooter that has a feet forward riding position underseat storage for two helmets and a bodywork mounted screen, what you call the big wing.

dspevack wrote:

I think one of the nicest things about the Silverwing is that it IS a mature, flexible design.
.

Who among us aren't looking for a mature, flexible design for a good ride (nudge, nudge, wink, wink)?

Meldrew wrote:

EDIT...the OE screen is rubbish but so was the OE screen on all the other maxis I've owned, and like many others I sorted the Silver Wing out fitting an Airflow....and once the novelty of raising and lowering it wears off, it's just another screen.

So is there an advantage to the Airflow vs a tall screen then? Is the laminar air flow of the, err, Airflow screen a moot point and, in the end, the 'adjustable' feature become not much more than 'a one size fits all' gimmick?

Tim

Tall look thru windshields can be killers---think rain/fog/sleet/snow/mud----ride the miles with tall and you will know....I like seeing what I might hit.

In the case of Givi Adjustable ---once set, you probably never re-set---BUT important thing with this windshield....with SilverWing it really works!!----does not on my 2 Burgman 400's----just ridden a cold/miserable couple of weeks with stock shield=not fun. GIVI adjustable is on now---also had one on my previous SilverWing. set at 21 and a half inches from keyhole==pleasant/comfortable---I prefer 3/4 helmet with long Duck Bill((getting harder and harder to find) and safety glasses...and ear plugs for all day riding. Have baseline for comparision---BMW and Heinrich upper and lowers, sat many hours behind this combo both solo and sidecar---think Germany and real crappy weather AND today Honda NT700V up to 65-70 mph, no mods to bike.

Seeing is the advantage of the AirFlow over tall look thru

I did once apologise to Woodworker, because he mistakenly posted in the Silverwing section when he meant to post in "other Scooter " section. My apology was for not knowing there was an "other Scooter" section. My original question still stands though why, are you posting in the Silverwing section when you don't own one and as Brubaker says have no knowledge of them?  

Cosmic_Jumper wrote:

Meldrew wrote:

EDIT...the OE screen is rubbish but so was the OE screen on all the other maxis I've owned, and like many others I sorted the Silver Wing out fitting an Airflow....and once the novelty of raising and lowering it wears off, it's just another screen.

So is there an advantage to the Airflow vs a tall screen then? Is the laminar air flow of the, err, Airflow screen a moot point and, in the end, the 'adjustable' feature become not much more than 'a one size fits all' gimmick?

Tim

I see you've cut the part of the quote out about me replacing the Burgman OE screen with a Secdem. I'd have been looking through a Givi replacement screen which is far too high even fully lowered.

The Givi DT214 high screen is 7cm taller than a fully extended Airflow and it's simpler to lower an Airflow than take a hacksaw to the top of the DT 214. I haven't moved the the height of my Airflow for the last 14 months.

...and I haven't a clue what you're on about in the second part of your post.

   

Cosmic_Jumper wrote:

So is there an advantage to the Airflow vs a tall screen then? Is the laminar air flow of the, err, Airflow screen a moot point and, in the end, the 'adjustable' feature become not much more than 'a one size fits all' gimmick?

Tim

Living here in Florida I ride year round and I do take advantage of the adjustable feature. In the winter I ride with it as tall as it will go. In the summertime I lower it unless I hit rain then I put it back up. I can look over it in the full up position so I do not have to look through so it's still safe to ride in the rain with it all the way up.

You lot ganging up on me brubaker old limey ha .  

Cosmic_Jumper wrote:

So is there an advantage to the Airflow vs a tall screen then? Is the laminar air flow of the, err, Airflow screen a moot point and, in the end, the 'adjustable' feature become not much more than 'a one size fits all' gimmick?

Meldrew wrote:

I see you've cut the part of the quote out about me replacing the Burgman OE screen with a Secdem. I'd have been looking through a Givi replacement screen which is far too high even fully lowered.

The Givi DT214 high screen is 7cm taller than a fully extended Airflow and it's simpler to lower an Airflow than take a hacksaw to the top of the DT 214. I haven't moved the the height of my Airflow for the last 14 months.

...and I haven't a clue what you're on about in the second part of your post.

Sorry if I confused the issue Meldrew. I edited the post to reflect my question about your post.

Re the second part; Does the Airflow screen function purely as an adjustable height windscreen? Or does the Airflow screen function similar to a laminar lip in that it magically directs the air flow higher than it would normally go with a one-piece screen of the same height?

Tim

Hi guys, this is an interesting post. I want to comment on chain drive if I may. While they are efficient I do prefer belt or shaft drive. I ride most of the time two up and with the same wonderful lady since 1968. I can't recall the actual number of oil stained pants that she ended up with over the years due to oil sling from the chain. I know the newer chain oils are better on this but it is still a problem, at least for me. After years of shaft drive bikes we have gone back to an 09 Triumph Bonneville and she still get oil specks from the chain. Yes I wipe off the oil after lubing. Doesn't seem to affect me while riding solo but manages to occasionally hit her as a passenger.
My first "new" motorcycle (1963 305 Honda Dream) had an enclosed chain guard that prevented this and I for one would still prefer this type of set up. Our friends across the pond probably are familiar with this set up on older British machines.
While I was working at a Kawasaki shop they came out with belt drive on some of their smaller bikes and was greatly appreciated and reliable to our customers. Some of you may have had negative impressions of the belt drive system but we didn't.
There is and aftermarket conversion kit for the Bonneville and I will probably go to that at my first chain replacement time.
My 1964 H.D. Topper motor scooter is chain drive.
I like the belt drive on the Silver Wings just fine.
Take care...........Dick

Cosmic_Jumper wrote:

Re the second part; Does the Airflow screen function purely as an adjustable height windscreen? Or does the Airflow screen function similar to a laminar lip in that it magically directs the air flow higher than it would normally go with a one-piece screen of the same height? Tim

Tim, to answer the second part of your question, yes the Airflow screen does function similar to a laminar lip in that it magically directs the airflow higher.

model28a wrote:

Cosmic_Jumper wrote:

Re the second part; Does the Airflow screen function purely as an adjustable height windscreen? Or does the Airflow screen function similar to a laminar lip in that it magically directs the air flow higher than it would normally go with a one-piece screen of the same height? Tim

Tim, to answer the second part of your question, yes the Airflow screen does function similar to a laminar lip in that it magically directs the airflow higher.

A Laminar Lip is just a piece of plastic you Velcro onto a OE screen that's too low to increases it's height so there's less wind noise and buffeting. It might improve the useless Honda screen for some owners who don't want to the hassle of replacing it with a Givi DT, or Airflow.

Raising or lowering an Airflow offers a greater degree of adjustment but there's nothing magical about it, it just makes it easier for the rider to find a comfortable screen height.

It may have been said before but the Laminar Lip is not as efficient on the stock Silverwing screen as it is on other stock screens because, I think, the Silverwing screen is relatively narrow.......which is why LL make the 'ears' to use in conjunction with the Lip on the Silverwing.