New tires for my SWing

Now I know much has been said about which tires each of us prefers on our bikes, but the time for me to get new tires will soon approach and I know I don't want any more Hoops as that's all I've ever had on all my Maxis. I just wanted to hear some final recommendations on which other tires to buy.

From what I've read on this forum, it seems that the majority that get non-OEM tires go for either Pirelli Diablos or Metzler Feel-Frees. You hardly hear about Michelin Pilot Sports (wish they made City Grips for SWings) or Avon Viper Strykes. So I will be looking mostly at the Pirellis or the Metzlers and price shopping them between a few local shops. It seems like they are dead even although the Metzlers seem to last longer. Is this true? Traction seems to by my biggest interest but if both are the same, then I'll go for the longest life tire next. Some say Diablos don't lose as much air pressure over time. Is this true?

So how many say Pirelli and how many Metzler?

I have Avon Viper Strykes and love 'em. I like the extremely sure grip they give on the twisties. For me that's well worth a somewhat shorter lifespan than other makes. If traction is your thing than I would urge you to give these a closer look.

How mant say DARK SIDE ??

Somerled wrote:

I have Avon Viper Strykes and love 'em. I like the extremely sure grip they give on the twisties. For me that's well worth a somewhat shorter lifespan than other makes. If traction is your thing than I would urge you to give these a closer look.

+1
A lot of people try to find the highest mileage tire they can, forgetting that you sacrifice traction, i would much rather have the stickiest tires i can find. I still wish they had dual compound in our sizes!

Metzeler and Pirelli are same company. I had good luck with Diablo on Reflex made in Brazil. (tires)


Hard compound tires can get you killed when chips are down. Recent experience with AVON will keep me away from them for a long time---85-90F two up on my Concours=great. BUT 35-40 degreesF, wet, cold, dark-----bike wouldn't even go straight----lots of effort to keep bike up.

What is wrong with the tires Honda tested and recommended--IRC and Bridgestone?

My take tackbox techs cannot outthink Honda------and further going from stock tires isn't going to fix much or improve much. In the end you still have scooter

john grinsel wrote:

What is wrong with the tires Honda tested and recommended--IRC and Bridgestone?

IRC
They wear longer, but some people did not like the gripping ability.

Bridegstone
Multiple people have reported that the front tire has a problem where it creates a raised alternating diamond pattern around the center line of the tire which negatively effects riding and handling. This happened to me on both of my front tires ... I believe it might come from heat.

honda_silver wrote:

Bridegstone
Multiple people have reported that the front tire has a problem where it creates a raised alternating diamond pattern around the center line of the tire which negatively effects riding and handling. This happened to me on both of my front tires ... I believe it might come from heat.

I believe you mean the dreaded "cupping" syndrome. I've had that on my old Burgman 400. I'd feel the bike wobble at slow speeds with minimal hand grip and the steering would wobble bad when I backed the bike up the driveway. New tires ended that. Now I feel the SWing is slowly going down that path too and lo and behold you can feel the Hoops are getting a "cupping" pattern on them if you rub your hand over the tread.
Someone enlighten me on what "hard compound" or "dual compound" means. Thicker harder rubber? Like the Hoops that are like wooden wagon wheels on turns?

Just out of interest have any UK or Euro rider suffered the 'cupping' effect.

I cannot recollect any posts from anyone from this side of the pond mentioning it.

If so, (big if) I was thinking maybe just maybe it might not be the tyre/tire but more the road surface.

Theory only - very open to discussion and comment!

I've only had hoops on my silverwing so far. Run through 6 of them so far. I tried high air pressure, low air pressure, and honda's suggested pressure, but every one of them cupped really bad. Yesterday I bought my first diablo and will know shortly how well I like it.

Reading the advertising at the dealer yesterday, they had dual compound tires that were harder in the center of the tire yet softer at the edges. Thay way you get good tire life yet still have grip in the hard corners. The harder the compound the less it wears and the less it grips.

john grinsel wrote:

Hard compound tires can get you killed when chips are down. Recent experience with AVON will keep me away from them for a long time---85-90F two up on my Concours=great. BUT 35-40 degreesF, wet, cold, dark-----bike wouldn't even go straight----lots of effort to keep bike up.

Interesting, I rode them in Vermont with temps at 20 F or so and also wet, cold and dark and no problem whatsoever.

LVScooterBill wrote:

honda_silver wrote:

Bridegstone
Multiple people have reported that the front tire has a problem where it creates a raised alternating diamond pattern around the center line of the tire which negatively effects riding and handling. This happened to me on both of my front tires ... I believe it might come from heat.

I believe you mean the dreaded "cupping" syndrome. I've had that on my old Burgman 400. I'd feel the bike wobble at slow speeds with minimal hand grip and the steering would wobble bad when I backed the bike up the driveway. New tires ended that. Now I feel the SWing is slowly going down that path too and lo and behold you can feel the Hoops are getting a "cupping" pattern on them if you rub your hand over the tread.
Someone enlighten me on what "hard compound" or "dual compound" means. Thicker harder rubber? Like the Hoops that are like wooden wagon wheels on turns?

dual compound tires have a harder center strip and a softer shoulder for cornering grip, and are the cats pajamas short of full track treads, but i get maybe 300-400 miles on track tires before there shot, and thats pushing it.

I had the Avon Viper Stryke on my Burgman 400 and wouldn't recommend them at all for anyone riding in rain. In the dry, they are fine. They also run at lower psi than other tires like the Pirelli and Hoop, so they soak up bumps fine.

But I had them slide out on me twice in rain. Not much, just a few inches...but enough.

I also installed a Avon Viper Stryke on the front and took it off in less than five miles. When we checked it back in the shop, we could see it was visibly out of round.

Majesty owners have had similar experiences too with the Avon Viper Stryke.

Chris

So I'm seeing a consensus by many (but not all) against Avon and much about what not to buy. But I'm still hoping to hear specific recommendations on either the Metzs or the Diablos or even Michelins. Almost like an opinion poll, if you will, on why choose one over the other.

I've noticed that everyone mentions the Pirelli Diablo but not the Pirelli GTS. I had the GTS tires a few years ago and loved them for great grip. Has anyone used both the GTS tires and the Diablo tires? A comparison would be great. The only difference I've noticed so far is that the Diablo is much more expensive, but I've never ridden it and so don't know if it's worth the additional money. Thanks guys!

I've had the OEM Bridgestone Hoop (once), the Avon Viper Stryke (once) and the Pirelli Diablo (twice). I'll go back to the Pirelli Diablo as soon as I can. The dry grip is wonderful, and the wet grip is better than the other two tires. They've never slipped at all.

My tire life on the Avon and Pirelli has been around 15,000 miles. I generally end up changing tires before the absolute end of their tread life, just because I like to start the rainy season with fresh tread.

Chris

Hi Daboo. It sounds like you have never ridden the Pirelli GTS then. Regardless, that's a very strong endorsement of the Diablo. Dry traction is very important for me, but wet traction is a high priority (the only time I dropped the bike at speed was in very oily conditions during the rain). Knowing how much rain you get up there through the winter that makes your endorsement even stronger. Thanks!

Everybody else, I have seen several endorsements of the Diablo (including Daboo), but it would still be helpful to have a comparison between the GTS and Diablo if there is actually anybody who has ridden both. I have had similar results with the GTS as many of you describe for the Diablo. If it turns out that the difference is not significant I can save some money by going with the GTS. If there is a big difference, then I'll bite the bullet and spend the extra money for the Diablo.

BTW, I don't want to totally hijack LVScooterBill's thread. He said above that he is still hoping to hear specific recommendations on either the Metzs or the Diablos or even Michelins. If possible please try to contribute to both parts of this thread. Thanks everyone!

I wrote Pirelli once and asked them about the GTS. Their reply was that the GTS was being phased out.

If you look at Motorcycle Superstore's available sizes for the GTS, you'll find they'll fit the older Burgman 400, but not the newer 400 which takes the same size tires as your Silverwing or the Majesty.

So if you can get the GTS in a size that fits the Silverwing, please let us all know where so we'll have another option to consider.

Chris

Bill:
My first Swing had the Hoops when I got it and I did not like how they tracked in sweepers or in tight twisties. They also developed the cupped diamond pattern described previously which made them vibrate in the corners. I replaced them with the Metzler feel free tires. The Metzlers were fantastic. They tracked nicely in the sweepers, and provided good traction in all road conditions wet, dry, hot, or very cold conditions (<20f). I have not tried the Diablos, but based on my experience I would strongly recommend the Metzlers.

Regarding the GTS vs. Diablo question, Daboo is entirely correct. The GTS tires are almost entirely unavailable. Out of 4 online retailers on 1 had the GTS24, and only 2 had the GTS23. In contrast, all 4 had both sizes of Diablo. I checked the following 4 retailers in order from low to high price. I used the prices from Motorcycle Superstore as the baseline (because they were always the lowest), and calculated the percentage difference of each of the others against the Motorcycle Superstore price. I have shown the percentage difference for the rear tires, and then for the front tires. (I don't know how the spacing is going to turn out until I submit the post. Hopefully it will be readable.)
Rear Front
A) Motorcycle Superstore $55 $51
B) American Motorcycle Tire +5% +6%
C) Dennis Kirk +15% +16%
D) Cycle Gear +27% +31%

craigory wrote:

The GTS tires are almost entirely unavailable.

That's too bad, because I kind of was hoping to add another tire to the running.
BTW, my local Las Vegas Motorcycle Tire Center wanted $210 out the door for both front & rear Diablos mounted and balanced while I wait and add $10 for Metzlers instead. I asked him why more for Metzs and he just said that it may be just the name. But he said he has a regular customer with an SWing who originally replaced stock tires with Metzlers but has since gotten several sets of Diablos and never looked back. Sure wish I could ask the guy as this makes me wonder...
Score another one for Pirelli who seems to be in the lead.

I think you may also want to let your fingers do the walking...that's probably a phrase that's out of date with today's use of the Internet to find everything.

I called three places and got the same price for the Pirelli Diablo. However, the charge after that for getting out the door was entirely different. The dealership wanted about another $60 to remove the wheel, mount the tire, balance it, etc. Another shop would mount the tire if I brought the wheel in off the bike. The place I went to would do everything for free, except balance the tire...which was only $15. I've been going there since.

Also, when the Avon front tire was found to be badly out of round, they remounted the old Hoop, balanced it, ordered a replacement tire, mounted it, balanced it...all for the original price. If I had bought the tire online and had them install it, I suspect I would've paid for three mounting and balancing episodes.

Chris

Hi Chris,
I actually had all of those factors closely in mind, plus shipping costs. I am doing research on the internet, including the pricing, in order to be better prepared. My dealership has always been reasonable and fair with me, and they try to at least get close to the internet prices, which is all I ask. I totally agree about being aware of unexpected expenses. All of that has to be taken into account in order to get the "real" price for comparison, which is sometimes dramatically more than the "advertised" price. I also value having a good relationship with them, and I try to give them as much business as I can unless the price difference is just too extreme (in practice this is rarely the case). In short, I completely agree with your comments. Your real-life examples tell the whole story. Thanks!

Finally ordered my Diablos, but I was real close to ordering the Metzlers. I think JeffR's recollection of the Pirellis as being a slight bit "stickier" (as he put it) made me chose them. From what I gather they're almost the same, but in Vegas' high heat and riding in cool (30-50 degree) winter nights I'd prefer sticky over long lasting. I just can't wait to feel the difference over the hard stock Hoops.
BTW, I bought them through Motorcycle Superstore and the #1 preferred installer is the same place I was going to buy them from originally anyway. Let's hope they don't up the installation price to compensate.

I'm pretty sure that my dealership does charge a higher price if you get the tire elsewhere. It makes sense that they can only discount the installation if they are also getting the profit from the tire to offset it a bit. Hopefully your dealership will have little or no price difference.

The comments from several posts on the Bridgestone Hoop wear pattern describes my Silver Wing's situation as well. I will almost certainly make the switch to another tire later this month.

craigory wrote:

Hopefully your dealership will have little or no price difference.

I'm not getting it installed at a dealership but at a small business that started in 1970 called the Motorcycle Tire Center: www.mtclv.com
While I like my local dealer, I trust these guys. You can feel a place out by observing the employees and the customers there and their reputation is impeccable.

My dealer wanted over $00 to install 2 new tires bought from them.
I bought the Diablos for $96 shipped to my door and a local MC shop install them for a total of about $140. If I would have bought the tires from them I would have saved about 10 - 15 if I remember correctly. There is a huge difference in the way my Swing rides compared to the old hoops. I've put on 7400 miles on the new tires in the last 5 months and still going strong.

Edit to my post, the dealer wanted $400 to install tires bought and installed by them.

Donodii wrote:

Edit to my post, the dealer wanted $400 to install tires bought and installed by them.

My quote from a nearby Honda dealer was close to that, too. The rear tire was about $130 and the front was over $100 for Hoops and then the installation fees. I'm looking at the same method you used as these quoted prices are too high.

Hi Donodii,
I'm confused about the difference between the "dealer" and the "local MC shop." My dealer has a full service department. Are you saying that the installation was much more expensive if done at the dealer than it was if done at a service-only shop? Considering the massive price difference you encountered I am intensely interested to find out. Thanks!

craigory wrote:

Hi Donodii,
I'm confused about the difference between the "dealer" and the "local MC shop." My dealer has a full service department. Are you saying that the installation was much more expensive if done at the dealer than it was if done at a service-only shop? Considering the massive price difference you encountered I am intensely interested to find out. Thanks!

That's what I showed in my last post above (follow the link). If the dealerships have slow bike sales then they tend to mark stuff up and charge ludicrous hourly rates compared to the average in that locale.

craigory wrote:

Hi Donodii,
I'm confused about the difference between the "dealer" and the "local MC shop." My dealer has a full service department. Are you saying that the installation was much more expensive if done at the dealer than it was if done at a service-only shop? Considering the massive price difference you encountered I am intensely interested to find out. Thanks!

As an example, my local Honda dealer charges $105/hr for work in their service shop. The Bike Shop, the place I take my bike for tire work, charges $45/hr, and they do better work than the dealer.

kyouteki wrote:

craigory wrote:

Hi Donodii,
I'm confused about the difference between the "dealer" and the "local MC shop." My dealer has a full service department. Are you saying that the installation was much more expensive if done at the dealer than it was if done at a service-only shop? Considering the massive price difference you encountered I am intensely interested to find out. Thanks!

As an example, my local Honda dealer charges $105/hr for work in their service shop. The Bike Shop, the place I take my bike for tire work, charges $45/hr, and they do better work than the dealer.

You may find that dealerships know little, if anything about scooters, they know sportbikes, cruisers, and atv's, thats it.

x

Well, the Pirelli Diablos are on the bike and all I can say is--wow! Does it feel like an entirely different bike? No. But it does feel like I am an entirely different rider! You see, I have never felt the same confidence turning this Silver Wing that I felt on both the Helix and the Burgman 400. Well, I do now. While a person has to think well about any maneuver they do, I find that I no longer over-think them. And I no longer end up making sloppily extra wide turns or leaning over excessively when I didn't need to. Also, a quick left turn that I regularly do when commuting no longer feels like the rear wants to slip out under me. I recommend these tires 1,000% to anyone who wants to feel better riding their S-Wing. Your comfort zone will definitely grow. I put it right up there with the improvement of adjusting the handlebars back for better reach & grip--both things that make the bike seem smaller and more "flick-able".

LVScooterBill wrote:

Well, the Pirelli Diablos are on the bike and all I can say is--wow! Does it feel like an entirely different bike? No. But it does feel like I am an entirely different rider! You see, I have never felt the same confidence turning this Silver Wing that I felt on both the Helix and the Burgman 400. Well, I do now. While a person has to think well about any maneuver they do, I find that I no longer over-think them. And I no longer end up making sloppily extra wide turns or leaning over excessively when I didn't need to. Also, a quick left turn that I regularly do when commuting no longer feels like the rear wants to slip out under me. I recommend these tires 1,000% to anyone who wants to feel better riding their S-Wing. Your comfort zone will definitely grow. I put it right up there with the improvement of adjusting the handlebars back for better reach & grip--both things that make the bike seem smaller and more "flick-able".

Bill, I think a lot of the change in the ride is just due to the fact you have new tires (of any brand), with a new profile vs. old tires (of any brand) with a flattened middle. New tires always turn nicely.

I just got a new front tire on my Silverwing last week, and did a 1200 mile, four day trip two days later. The new tire is a Metzeler Feel Free, while the back is a 50% used Diablo. Both tires have excellent grip. I could really feel the difference in the new front though - the bike had a bad steering wobble at high speeds and it took a lot of counter-steer to turn. The wobble went away with the installation of the new tire, and turns are easy now.

With this limited experience with the Feel Free, I would say it is just as good as the prior Diablo front tire. I'm happy with both and would buy either in the future

A further note - in my constant internet perusal, I came across an old news article regarding Pirelli and Metzeler. Turns out, one company bought the other about 5 years ago. Their intent was to keep Pirelli as the sport name, and Metzeler as the cruising name. They build Metzelers to achieve higher mileage.

x

Last November, I bought a rear Diablo and a set of Feel Frees. The FFs were made in Serbia, and the Diablo in Brazil.

i bought a feel free rear tire , it says made in Brazil ? , i have about 400 miles on it , i am pleased with the performance of it for the price , seems to stick quite well...

Just thought I'd throw my 2 cents on this topic, due to budget concerns I went with the cheapest tires last time from Motorcycle Superstore and they have been great. I don't know the model, but they are made by Shinko.

I have about 9000 miles on them now and the front is hardly worn, the back still probably has another 3-4000 miles in it so I pleased. They handle great, even when my wife and I are riding together on it.

john grinsel wrote:

Metzeler and Pirelli are same company. I had good luck with Diablo on Reflex made in Brazil. (tires)


Hard compound tires can get you killed when chips are down. Recent experience with AVON will keep me away from them for a long time---85-90F two up on my Concours=great. BUT 35-40 degreesF, wet, cold, dark-----bike wouldn't even go straight----lots of effort to keep bike up.

What is wrong with the tires Honda tested and recommended--IRC and Bridgestone?

My take tackbox techs cannot outthink Honda------and further going from stock tires isn't going to fix much or improve much. In the end you still have scooter

John, agree with you about the techies at Honda probably have things sussed out better but how many times do we hear that the accountants have the final say.

My next tyres will be Mettzler Feel Free. Hopefully fitted before riding in the Picos de Europa next year.

Cheers,

acworthpatrick wrote:

Just thought I'd throw my 2 cents on this topic, due to budget concerns I went with the cheapest tires last time from Motorcycle Superstore and they have been great. I don't know the model, but they are made by Shinko.

I have about 9000 miles on them now and the front is hardly worn, the back still probably has another 3-4000 miles in it so I pleased. They handle great, even when my wife and I are riding together on it.

I appreciate the budgetary concerns but I was talked into a budget set of tyres, 'Fulda,' in the dry they were OK, but when the weather changed I slid all over the place. A knife went into them after one bad experience.

Now - I prefer to have maximum confidence in my tyres.

I'll be needing some new tyres soon....this summer weather is causing many more miles to be travelled and I need to replace both front and rear....i'm going for Metzeler this time.

Hi Tarmacburner...I see you've mentioned Picos for next year.....it's on my thoughts but not definite yet. Would you care to share your plans?

I put Heidenau K66 on Front & Back at 27,500 miles earlier this year.I now have 32,127 miles and the tires still look new! Yes All I ride is 30 miles on Highway no stops one-way and back home everyday so no hard corners or tight turns but plenty of speed.Over the OEM (Hoops) I noticed better wet weather handling and smoother ride but the small groves(about 2 inch apart) in concrete they do seem to wiggle more.Yes when they wear out I'll replace them with the same.

Brought my Silver Wing home today from the shop that installed new tires. I decided to try Motorcycle Superstore's program of purchasing tires and having them shipped to a contracted shop near my home.

The Pirelli Diablo tires cost $105.98 delivered and the installation cost $130.89 for a grand total of $236.87. Although the rear Hoop was fairly well worn, at least it wore evenly. The front Hoop demonstrated a similar uneven, cupped wear pattern as that described by others, but it appeared to have more remaining tread depth than the rear. For just about the entire time with this set of Hoops, the Silver Wing had a noticeable but controllable handlebar vibration at highway speeds on the old tires, and I mentioned this to the shop owners. It wasn't a problem at lower speeds.

Riding home on the new tires, I was anticipating the handlebar vibration to resume. Odd as it may seem, I was wondering why the vibration didn't resume before assuring myself this was a good thing. I must have reached the point of perceiving some vibration as "normal." Perhaps one ride home isn't enough to draw a lot of conclusions, but my first impression of the Pirellis, as well as Motorcycle Superstore's program and the shop that performed the service, is a good one. The shop, Iron Horse Repair in Gettysburg, PA, is a place I will gladly look to for future motorcycle service.

Redeye, I recently had a new front tire installed and my wobble went away completely. The wobble was at higher speeds (not the usual 30 mph wobble), and it was bad.

In the future, I will probably replace front and rear together (even though the front will probably still have life in it).

buddy19520 wrote:

Redeye, I recently had a new front tire installed and my wobble went away completely. The wobble was at higher speeds (not the usual 30 mph wobble), and it was bad.

In the future, I will probably replace front and rear together (even though the front will probably still have life in it).

Regardless of what was causing the wobble or vibration, getting it to go away sure makes a tremendous difference!