Another good idea of mine

Why couldnt the swing be designed so if you have to get off the bike for a second you could pull the hand brake and then put the side stand down without the bike shutting off? My riding lawn mower is similar to my scooter dream- put the parking brake on to dismount otherwise the engine shuts off. I think Honda should be contacting me to buy my ideas

So you stole an idea from John Deere and are claiming it as your own?

Seriously though, many people have disabled the kickstand interlock. Probably the same people who disable the seat switch on their riding lawn mowers.

If you put the rear wheel up in the air (on the center stand) with the bike running you'll notice that the wheel will spin. This would especially be noticed if you have unworn clutch shoes, causing very little clearance against the hub. I think Honda was afraid that the bike might roll off of the side stand. It would be possible to adapt a type of hill-holder technology (such as is offered by my previous Mercedes-Benz) which will hold the brakes if you're stopped on a hill and facing uphill, and when you apply the gas the brakes are released, but this would be a costly addition to the silverwing that still uses conventional brakes and a throttle cable. With newer bikes that use throttle by wire and traction control this would be easier to design, as it would pretty much be all software.

You could (although I wouldn't recommend it) disable the side stand switch entirely or otherwise wire-in a manual switch to temporarily disable the side stand switch when it is flipped on. That should be pretty easy to do.

Jesse in Atlanta

Trust me i've tried to overide the john deere seat switch but they've outsmarted me with its complexity. However i wouldnt consider disabling the kickstand switch- that could/would kill me!

toolboxjesse wrote:

If you put the rear wheel up in the air (on the center stand) with the bike running you'll notice that the wheel will spin. This would especially be noticed if you have unworn clutch shoes, causing very little clearance against the hub. I think Honda was afraid that the bike might roll off of the side stand. It would be possible to adapt a type of hill-holder technology (such as is offered by my previous Mercedes-Benz) which will hold the brakes if you're stopped on a hill and facing uphill, and when you apply the gas the brakes are released, but this would be a costly addition to the silverwing that still uses conventional brakes and a throttle cable. With newer bikes that use throttle by wire and traction control this would be easier to design, as it would pretty much be all software.

You could (although I wouldn't recommend it) disable the side stand switch entirely or otherwise wire-in a manual switch to temporarily disable the side stand switch when it is flipped on. That should be pretty easy to do.

Jesse in Atlanta

See someone is overthinking my idea already.

yeah, sorry. I tend to do that. That's what happens when an art student becomes an engineer.

Jesse

toolboxjesse wrote:

yeah, sorry. I tend to do that. That's what happens when an art student becomes an engineer.

Jesse

Not necessarily a bad thing.

I was an art student in college, then spent 28 years designing and building industrial ovens.

I used to design mobile electronics (Telematics) for cars. Now I test software in GPS Navigation systems.

Jesse

toolboxjesse wrote:

I used to design mobile electronics (Telematics) for cars. Now I test software in GPS Navigation systems.

Jesse

So your the one to blame when the gps says turn right when i can see my destination on the left.

Just don't drive into a lake.
J

One of my first mods was to disable the sidestand switch.
Bike does not engage forward motion at idle.

The optimist says the glass is half full.
The pessimist says the glass is half empty.
What does the engineer say?

The engineer says:





















The glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

DennisB once showed how to disconnect the sidestand cut off switch. I did this, 12mths ago, as i have to open a gate to enter my driveway. I always engage the handbrake when doing this.

Dont forget to thank DennisB as your flying thru the air seconds after you lean into a left hand turn after you remember you forgot to put the kickstand up!

Hotwings,

I've had my sidestand cut off switch disconnected on both my Silverwings. No problems. Works for me.

When I gave up my first Swing I reconnected the switch so the new owner could make their own choice. Each one of us needs to make our own mind as to what he or she wants to do.

When I received my 2006 in, the sidestand cut off switch was disconnected already but not correctly none.

We all make our own choices...And that's the way it is...If you don't like it...That's just to bad.

As i said this was done 12mths ago, It is now part of my routine, when starting off to check sidestand up, and handbrake off,10,000mls and not forgot yet.

Glass half empty or half full?

This engineer thinks the glass is entirely full - part of it with water, and part of it with air!

Somewhere there is a mod to hook up your parking brake light to the side stand cutoff switch. If you have the parking brake on and the side stand down it would run, if you had the side stand down without the parking brake on it would not run. I can't remember who but if I get the time I may see if I can find it for you.

Old Limey wrote:

As i said this was done 12mths ago, It is now part of my routine, when starting off to check sidestand up, and handbrake off,10,000mls and not forgot yet.

Why is it not too many on this forum can remember to close the seat leaving the light on killing the battery yet your depending on your memory for your life.

For what it is worth... Harley Davidson, does not include a safety switch on the kickstand. (or the clutch either, so yes you can start it in gear). I guess it's just what you get used to.

When i first started riding over 50yr ago, not many(British) bikes had a sidestand, and those that did, did not have a cutout switch. Machines were not as heavy as they are now, and i could see the reason why they started fitting them. I just never trusted sidestands so, more often than not i use the centre stand. When i do use the side stand it is always with the handbrake as well ( i learned my lesson on that score). I also removed the seat bulb. It is just a matter of choice really isn't it?.

I only use the side stand when getting on and off the scooter, and I'm glad there's a cut out switch fitted. It's all too easy to ride away with the side stand down and come to grief, as was the case before they fitted springs and then cutout switches to prevent this.

It seems a bit strange to read posts on here about fitting headlight modulators, flashing LED rear lights, extra loud horns and other assorted bolt on junk all in the name of safety, but yet it's OK to deliberately disable a built in safety feature put there to save your a** just because it's a bit of an inconvenience.

I never use the mainstand as it is a physical impossibility for me to use it. Obviously there are some jobs that require the scoot to be on the stand, that is when my ndn comes in handy. So the sidestand is a way of life for me, never left it down on anything I have ever ridden.
As Meldrew says it is a safety feature.

Cheers,

Meldrew, I couldn't agree more.

I use the side stand most of the time and I'm happy to have the cut-out switch functioning. I only use the centre stand in the garage as it's not that easy to use and I've found it almost impossible to use without assistance when the 'scoot is fully laden for touring as the centre of balance is in the wrong place.

We have been through this topic before and I agree that it's up to the individual but for the life of me I cannot understand why any one would want to disengage the side stand switch its there for a reason, safety. I fully agree with you Meldrew.

model28a wrote:

Somewhere there is a mod to hook up your parking brake light to the side stand cutoff switch. If you have the parking brake on and the side stand down it would run, if you had the side stand down without the parking brake on it would not run. I can't remember who but if I get the time I may see if I can find it for you.

I posted this a while back .....

Both the parking brake light and the starter relay need a ground to be activated.

The parking brake light gets its ground from a micro switch mounted to the PB handle, starter relay from the side stand switch.

To do this you will need to have a way to run a small gage wire from behind the windshield garnish (rear of the gage cluster) to the side stand switch.

To tap in to the PB switch remove the windshield garnish. You will see a brown connector; to the left you will see a metal tab that holds it in place. Bend the tab down far enough to move the brown connector out of the way. To the right of the opening you will find a rubber boot over the two connector packs feeding the information center. Pull the tab on the rubber boot and slide the boot down the harness. Disconnect the lower connector; the lock tab is on the left side. You will see a white / black stripe wire on the bottom part of the connector; this is the trigger ground from the PB switch. Splice in to this conductor and go to the side stand switch area.

Splice in a diode so the flow is from the PB trigger to the side stand switch. Pull the boot from the side stand switch and connect your trigger wire to the green / white stripe wire. Test the bypass and button things up!

BTW, if you don't use a diode your PB light will come on when you fold up the side stand.

trouble1100 wrote:

I posted this a while back .....

Yes that's the post I was referring to. Thank you for this informative post.

Meldrew wrote:

It seems a bit strange to read posts on here about fitting headlight modulators, flashing LED rear lights, extra loud horns and other assorted bolt on junk all in the name of safety, but yet it's OK to deliberately disable a built in safety feature put there to save your a** just because it's a bit of an inconvenience.

I'm amazed by quite the opposite. If you mention anything that's even slightly "less safe" like wearing a half helmet, riding without body armor or leather hip waders the general reply is to call you a lunatic who takes more risks than your average lion tamer.

I don't understand how these people ever get up on two wheels in the first place. Shouldn't you all be driving Volvos and eating tofu instead of riding? Or better off looking at the world through your door's peephole screaming "I've pushed 91 and I will push the other 1 if you don't tell me why you're on my porch!"

I agree with DennisB. Everyone has to decide for themselves how much safety is important to them. Life is too short to be terrified of your own shadow (or your own kickstand.)

If you love your kill switch, by all means, declare your intentions and get a marriage license. But stop calling the rest of us stupid. You do understand that the 4 wheel public thinks you're stupid for riding in the first place, right?

P.S. I've accidentally left the kickstand down on my other scooter. Do you know what happened when I took a left? Yeah, it flipped up. Pretty boring.

For me, the primary danger is NOT from forgetting to raise the stand, it's more about preventing the engine from running whilst it's down.

If the engine could run when the bike was on its side stand and one accidentally opened the throttle, the bike could lurch forward - especially if a Cramp Buster is fitted. The danger then is that the bike could go down. I've witnessed a similar incident.

OK, plenty of "ifs" and "coulds" there, and I know that a wise rider would apply a brake, but I'd rather not take the risk.

Colin B wrote:

For me, the primary danger is NOT from forgetting to raise the stand, it's more about preventing the engine from running whilst it's down.

If the engine could run when the bike was on its side stand and one accidentally opened the throttle, the bike could lurch forward - especially if a Cramp Buster is fitted. The danger then is that the bike could go down. I've witnessed a similar incident.

OK, plenty of "ifs" and "coulds" there, and I know that a wise rider would apply a brake, but I'd rather not take the risk.

Thats why i stated in the original post that the bike should run when the handbrake is applied and the kickstand is down. If the handbrake was applied and assuming your bike is properly maintained, the bike will not move forward!!

hey I can tell you exactly why the side stand has a safety switch , cause bikes don't take left handers too well with the side stand down ...

DuggleBogey wrote:

P.S. I've accidentally left the kickstand down on my other scooter. Do you know what happened when I took a left? Yeah, it flipped up. Pretty boring.

Many years ago I had a friend who set off for work one morning on his motorbike, forgetting to put his side stand up. At the first left hander he was thrown from the bike and killed. If you are unlucky it can be fatal

Higstatic wrote:

DuggleBogey wrote:

P.S. I've accidentally left the kickstand down on my other scooter. Do you know what happened when I took a left? Yeah, it flipped up. Pretty boring.

Many years ago I had a friend who set off for work one morning on his motorbike, forgetting to put his side stand up. At the first left hander he was thrown from the bike and killed. If you are unlucky it can be fatal

ANY accident on a motorcycle/scooter has the potential to be fatal. Each and every one of us should understand that risk before we ever climb in the saddle and start the engine. Kill switch or no kill switch, common sense should prevail. IMHO, loading a motorcycle down with 'safety' features designed to make riding "stupid-proof" is counter productive. Stupid people do not need to be riding on public roads and highways with the rest of us.

...and I draw a line between a safety feature and "stupid-proof."

Gyro wrote:

ANY accident on a motorcycle/scooter has the potential to be fatal. Each and every one of us should understand that risk before we ever climb in the saddle and start the engine. Kill switch or no kill switch, common sense should prevail. IMHO, loading a motorcycle down with 'safety' features designed to make riding "stupid-proof" is counter productive. Stupid people do not need to be riding on public roads and highways with the rest of us.

...and I draw a line between a safety feature and "stupid-proof."

Why are you on about the kill switch? or to give it the correct name the Engine Stop switch, the big red one beside your right thumb, it has nothing to do with the Side Stand Ignition Cut Off System which prevents stupid people riding off with the side stand down. The kill switch is there so stupid people can stop the engine in an emergency.

Honda also fit a Bank Angle Sensor Ignition cut off that's designed to automatically stop the engine and fuel pump if we're stupid enough to overturn the scooter.

Drawing on all your three weeks of Silver Wing and scooter experience, what's particularly stupid about having any of those safety features fitted?

The thread is about the kickstand switch. I assumed (mistakenly) that people would know that I was talking about the kickstand switch. Excuse me for not using perfect terminology out of the service manual. There's some colloquial differences in British and American English language, but I never realized it was that bad.

I would put a fuel cut-off switch in the "safety" category. I put the kickstand switch in the "stupid-proof" category.

I may have only owned a Silver Wing for a few weeks, but I am not just a few weeks old. I am 61 years old and have a lifetime of my own experiences to draw from. I am not an idiot. I've owned three different motorcycles in my younger years, and racked up thousands of rider miles back then. None of those motorcycles had safety switches on the kickstands, and I never needed one. I learned to put the kickstand up before riding off when I was 6 years old and learning to ride a bicycle. It stuck with me.

moonshiner wrote:

hey I can tell you exactly why the side stand has a safety switch , cause bikes don't take left handers too well with the side stand down ...

Wow what a brilliant deduction. Now i understand why its there. I thought it was there so a rider wouldnt waste fuel idling. Yes that was sarcasm!

I didn't mean to rile anyone , just speaking from learning things the "hard way " I had a Kaw 440 LTD in 1982 that I use to jump these railroad tracks on , well I jumped one day just as usual : note; I use to ride out of my way about four times a day to jump these RR tracks , and I don't know how the kick stand got down , I guess the landing was a little harder than usual and that dislodged it , but about 2 miles down the road on the first hard left hander at 60 + mph I realized something was wrong , and I don't know if you are familiar with the kaw ltd's but the kickstand sweeps way forward and once its down , its down to stay even at 60 mph , it acts as a skid , I cleaned out 40 feet of ditch row , I had to slap the kick stand up with my boot , I almost totaled out , after that I removed it and used only the center stand , and I remove all the side stands on my bikes that don't have a safety switch ....e.e.g
keith

davidparker wrote:

For what it is worth... Harley Davidson, does not include a safety switch on the kickstand. (or the clutch either, so yes you can start it in gear). I guess it's just what you get used to.

Actually Harley do - altho' I can start mine with the side stand down, the engine cuts out if I try to put it in gear. Like many bikes (& cars) a Harley can be started in gear but when I bought the bike, the dealer told me to always pull in the clutch before starting just in case it wasn't in neutral (the green light doesn't always mean it's in neutral!) & it's something I always do.

I often just flick the side stand down to stop the engine on my Swing as this leaves the headlight on so I can see to push it into my unlit garage at night.

Also I seem to remember a Honda CB350 I owned about 30 years ago had a 2" rubber extension to the side stand which flipped it up long before the stand hit the deck the 1st time I leant left.

Atrick wrote:

I often just flick the side stand down to stop the engine on my Swing as this leaves the headlight on so I can see to push it into my unlit garage at night.

Same here. What we need is hotwings' remote garage door opener thingy. Then we can ride straight in.

The "remote garage door opener thingy" probably needs electrickery tho' ...

Generated by a clockwork motor!

Colin B wrote:

Generated by a clockwork motor!

Nope it runs off steam which is generated by over use of the flux capacitor.

Was ridin last evening and was wanting to see the odometer on trip "A" so i had to reach down and thru the handlebars while keeping balance and one eye on the road and the other eye trying to focus on which of the two small buttons i should be pushing. It got me thinking again why couldnt they have put these two buttons just above the starter switch, where there is a perfect space for them, so a rider could safely switch modes with a thumb. I know this is off my original topic on this post but it is another good idea of mine

Why the urgent need to change? Couldn't you wait until you next stopped?

Colin B wrote:

Why the urgent need to change? Couldn't you wait until you next stopped?

Shouldnt have too.

Having read this, I am going home to fit a relay to my brake light, then wire the relay contacts to the side stand switch.

When I have the brakes applied, the side stand switch is over ridden and the motor still runs, side stand down.

As soon as I release the brake to move off, the engine dies, reminding me to put the stand up. Easy as.

dwintersnz wrote:

>>I am going home to fit a relay to my brake light, then wire the relay contacts to the side stand switch.When I have the brakes applied, the side stand switch is over ridden and the motor still runs, side stand down.As soon as I release the brake to move off, the engine dies, reminding me to put the stand up. Easy as.

Somewhere on this forum there are posts explaining a side-stand rewire & bypass so that the scoot could remain running with the side stand down if the parking brake was set first. But what I need is a loud beeper or some such warning device to indicate that..."Hey idiot!! you've ridden off with the parking brake still applied. Again". Maybe something that would be triggered by an increase in RPMs (from idle), wheel movement, or some relay/brake light circuit along the line of what you've suggested above.

I can't remember how many times I ridden off with the parking brake ON and gone 20 miles or so down the freeway before I've noticed that parking brake light. It doesn't take very much to destroy the parking brake pads because they are very thin to begin with, so at freeway speeds you don't really notice any brake drag. But it sure does gouge up the brake rotor though.

By way of an excuse; my center mounted GPS pretty much obscures the dash warning lights.

On a related note though is that anytime that parking brake light is ON the odometer doesn't accumulate miles.

Tim

I have never been able to move off with the parking brake on( if it is correctly adjusted)! surely that is the point of having the brake in the first place.