poor gas mileage- need dealer suggestions

Well my ride through Europe on my recently purchased used Swing has begun(2002 with 20,000 miles) . I have been in Ireland for the last week and put on about 1100 miles. The machine is super, but I'm only getting about 40 MPG. I have been riding in both slow speeds on winding roads, and the motorways, and it doesn't seem to matter on the kind of mileage I'm getting.
I also hear a metallic squeal behind the rear wheel at very low speeds. I took it to a Honda dealer and he put some lubrication on the pistons (shocks?) but it didn't seem to make any difference.
HE did find a hairline crack in the rear brake disc , so I need to get that fixed soon. (he did not have any in stock).
So my questions are
1. what mileage should I expect and is very poor mileage an indication of a mechanical issue I should address.
2. Any thoughts of what I should look for that causes the squeal?
3. Suggestions for qualified Honda service in Scotland or Northern England.

You do not repair brake disks. Replace----12 year old scoot

50mpg US gallon about normal ridden in easy manner. Find out if air cleaner has been replaced and when?

Noise in rear wheel?? worn out brake pads/rear clutch? Authorized Honda dealer should be able to work on bike. again older bike and unknown maint. history.

Your poor gas mileage is likely due to you purchasing a less fuel efficient early year Silver Wing, the 2008 onwards models are far better for fuel consumption.

Where you go for a qualified Honda dealer service in Scotland and Northern England is down to you and whatever ferry crossing you're using. You should be looking at the Dealer List on www.hondamotorcycles.co.uk to find one near your ferry port if you find the problem that urgent.

I've no idea of your itinerary, but say you go from Larne in Northern Ireland to Stranraer or nearby Cairnryan in Scotland, there's North Harbour Motorcycles in Ayr a traditional seaside holiday town further up the coast.

If you went from Belfast to Fleetwood, there's Lancaster Honda a couple of miles away in nearby Morecambe, another seaside resort.

In both places there's plenty of B&B accommodation if you have to spend a couple of days waiting for replacement parts.

Thanks guys. The rear clutch sounds like a good possibility. The Honda shop in Tralee did put on new rear break shows- and yes- he indicated the rear disk needed to be replaced, not repaired.
Nice to know that the gas mileage is " normal". And I will check the air cleaner. The scooter runs like a banshee. My brother is riding a new BMW GS 650 and I'd take my bike over his for the kind of riding we are doing. (ok- he needs to make up the big price difference).

My 2002 averages 50.3 MPG over 5000 miles on Fuelly.

My 2002 averaged 50 MPG-US until I installed 24gr sliders. Now it averages around 48-49 MPG probably due to the higher RPM needed for the clutch to engage when starting from a stop. I agree with John, check the air cleaner. You should run some fuel injector cleaner when next filling up.  Keep your tires inflated to factory. Ride safe.

WingMan02 wrote:

You should run some fuel injector cleaner when next filling up.

Reminds me of the old STP advertising. A tune up in a bottle. It will fix all ailments.
If a gasoline has detergents in it, and all tier 1 fuels do, there really is no need for extra fuel injector cleaner IMHO.

40 is not bad in town I get 37 and 50 on highway at 70 mph.70-85 mph is less.Every time you stop and take off mpg is less.

Try some Fuel Med RX every 5 tanks.It cleans out what today's fuel does to fuel systems.Thats from a 30 year certified (honda,Suzuki ,kaw )mechanic .

A 2002 with 20k.@ 10k miles a year your scoot sat for 12 years.Chances are its gummed up!

keeping up with faster machine=kills gas mileage

I have a 2007 and a 2012 Silverwing in the family - they get pretty much exactly the same mileage FWIW. The O2 sensor doesn't seem to affect mileage.

You should be getting more than 40 MPG, particularly if you are putting in the imperial gallons instead of USA gallons. I can ride at 80 MPH or I can ride stop and go city and get over 50 MPG US on the Wing.

Definitely have someone take a look at things and fix the brakes regardless.

bigbird wrote:

WingMan02 wrote:

You should run some fuel injector cleaner when next filling up.

Reminds me of the old STP advertising. A tune up in a bottle. It will fix all ailments.
If a gasoline has detergents in it, and all tier 1 fuels do, there really is no need for extra fuel injector cleaner IMHO.

I believe this is the member that purchased the bike without inspecting it. It may have set for a while and got gummed. Some members use Sea Foam to clean out bikes that may have been sitting for a while. 40MPG is really low, unless he likes to take-off like a jet. Just MHO.

In Ireland ricks2009 will be riding on the left, buying petrol/gas by the litre not in Imperial gallons and paying for it in € Euros. The speed limits will be posted in km/hr, and the road sign distances in km.

If he crosses into Northern Ireland he'll still be riding on the left and buying gas by in litres but paying for it in £ Pounds (and in both countries he'll be paying a darn sight more for his gas than in the US!)  but as a small consolation the speed limits will posted in the more familiar mph, and the road signs in miles.    

WingMan02 wrote:

I believe this is the member that purchased the bike without inspecting it. It may have set for a while and got gummed. Some members use Sea Foam to clean out bikes that may have been sitting for a while. 40MPG is really low, unless he likes to take-off like a jet. Just MHO.

If gumming of the entire fuel system is a problem, in my experience, there are only a few products that do an admirable cleaning job. These products contain healthy doses of PEA (Polyether Amine). The ones I know of are Chevron Techron Concentrate Plus, Gumout Regane, Redline SI-1, Amsoil Performance Improver, and BG Products 44K. Sea Foam is not one of them.

I wish I got 50 mpg on mine.  My scooter thinks it is being ridden two up.... all the time!  

I have to make two trips if I am gonna haul a**.

I recommend Seafoam as others have mentioned. When using it, don't count on a higher mpg. It will actually decrease your mileage while it is in your tank.

Just my experience.

Will using non-E gasoline raise your MPG? I just found a station that offers E10 and Non-E gas.

It's worth saying again it's an 02 FJS Silver Wing, they aren't economical on fuel and all the early models never were. The poor mpg of the Silver Wing was criticised in many magazine articles and road tests from it's UK launch and it carried that stigma for years afterwards.

The OP is in Ireland riding an early FJS Silver Wing not an early US spec FSC Silver Wing. He's buying fuel in litres which he's not used to doing and then having to convert that into US gallons for his mpg figures which may or may not be correct. He's filling up with the 95 Octane/RON Unleaded petrol/gas too, not the high ethanol content US stuff, again not what he's used to.

All this talk of adding Seafoam too, no one suggested taking a can of that along with the mandatory spare belt when he was asking for packing advice before his trip. I've never spotted a can of it for sale anywhere in the UK, so I doubt if he'll find any in rural Ireland.

Meldrew,
Sorry, did not know that Sea Foam was not available over the pond. He could probably find an alternative product that may help. That was interesting about the difference in fuel consumption between the FJS and the FSC early Silver Wings. WOW, ten MPG difference. I got to assume the OP can convert liters into US-gallons. I just thought that the FJS came with more features like the auxiliary power outlet. It is good to learn something new.

I don't buy this is an FSC vs FJS difference. EU's emissions laws weren't 25% worse than the USA's, nor do EU exhaust systems like running rich better than USA's (I can't imagine your oil is less slick, or your tires have more rolling resistance, or anything else that would explain using more gas but getting worse mileage, so the bike would have to be running *VERY* rich which would destroy the exhaust over time).

I would look at the fuel pressure regulator, brake drag, belt wear, roller wear, pulley wear, exhaust (catalyst plugged), air filter, etc. My bet would be on the fuel pressure regulator - that you're running rich.

Riding harder/faster trying to keep up-----riding in UK/EU ain't for the fat guy in chaps with cup holder, you have to get on throttle----this is why I think gas mileage is worse, plus older machine that needs to be run more. SilverWing is no gas economy king, my second new one 2013 left over seems to use more fuel than first (09?) Hard to do much more than 50mpg US, new/fresh bike 3000 miles, light throttle hand.

FWIW, I ride fairly aggressively over a variety of terrain - city, high speed rural highway, mountains, etc. I've only got less than 50mpg on one fill-up. Ever. And it may just have been a badly calibrated pump for one fill-up. I really don't think riding style - even UK/EU vs US differences are particularly the issue here.

I'll add that I don't think I'm that old (I suspect I'm somewhere around half your age, John, not that age and riding ability are necessarily related in any way), have no cup holder, never have worn chaps, and have no idea where I would install a cup holder on a Wing. Oh, and the right hand knows to work the throttle. I don't do "much over 50mpg" usually either, but I do consistently do over 50mpg. I'm averaging 54mpg.

Drink holder's
https://2img.net/h/s28.postimg.cc/5z0ovz0a5/image.jpg

Does the gas mileage change based on ethanol content of the cups?

jmaslak wrote:

I don't buy this is an FSC vs FJS difference.  EU's emissions laws weren't 25% worse than the USA's, nor do EU exhaust systems like running rich better than USA's (I can't imagine your oil is less slick, or your tires have more rolling resistance, or anything else that would explain using more gas but getting worse mileage, so the bike would have to be running *VERY* rich which would destroy the exhaust over time).

I would look at the fuel pressure regulator, brake drag, belt wear, roller wear, pulley wear, exhaust (catalyst plugged), air filter, etc.  My bet would be on the fuel pressure regulator - that you're running rich.

There probably isn't that much difference between a FJS and a FSC, but as I've said in previous posts the early FJS Silver Wing models were notoriously thirsty and were slated by owners and journalist alike. And that is what the OP is riding, not it's early US spec equivalent. If you were on the other side of the Atlantic a few days into a Euro tour wouldn't you rather be out savouring the ride than parked up somewhere checking all that stuff you've listed above, or maybe searching for an elusive can of Seafoam.



It's a lot simpler for the OP to ride it to a Honda dealership and let them sort his problems out.

Meldrew wrote:

jmaslak wrote:

I don't buy this is an FSC vs FJS difference.  EU's emissions laws weren't 25% worse than the USA's, nor do EU exhaust systems like running rich better than USA's (I can't imagine your oil is less slick, or your tires have more rolling resistance, or anything else that would explain using more gas but getting worse mileage, so the bike would have to be running *VERY* rich which would destroy the exhaust over time).

I would look at the fuel pressure regulator, brake drag, belt wear, roller wear, pulley wear, exhaust (catalyst plugged), air filter, etc.  My bet would be on the fuel pressure regulator - that you're running rich.

There probably isn't that much difference between a FJS and a FSC, but as I've said in previous posts the early FJS Silver Wing models were notoriously thirsty and were slated by owners and journalist alike. And that is what the OP is riding, not it's early US spec equivalent. If you were on the other side of the Atlantic a few days into a Euro tour wouldn't you rather be out savouring the ride than parked up somewhere checking all that stuff you've listed above, or maybe searching for an elusive can of Seafoam.



It's a lot simpler for the OP to ride it to a Honda dealership and let them sort his problems out.

Well, this post was started because the OP was concerned about his fuel consumption. He probably is enjoying his Euro tour. I feel that he would also be willing to park somewhere to check out all that stuff we suggested. As motorcyclist, that is part of why we ride. We like to tinker with our toys.  Every time I read about someone making changes to his/her Swing, I evaluate if I want to do it too. If not I  just chock it up as an interesting modification. BUT, this is what this forum is for. Exchanging ideas, helping others solve problems, or just laughing at a joke someone posted. Anyway. you all ride a lot and ride safe.

Nothing to do with the squeal, but for poor mileage, has the fuel pressure regulator been replaced?

As well documented by a prior poster, these go bad in time and cause rich running, poor mileage and other issues. I suppose it could eventually ruin the engine as well. My prior S'Wing had developed this issue, and at the time, I had not diagnosed the cause. Unfortunately the scoot was hit and totaled, before I had a chance to fix the issue.

I have been reworking my current S'Wing (2004, 15K miles, purchased in November) over the winter and did replace the part as preventative maintenance, since it was 10 years old.

Why do some people have to take things so literally?
It was clear what John Grinsel meant so to pick him up on silly points like cup-holders merely goes to show that some people have absolutely no idea of life outside their own little stamping-ground.

Enough sniping!

ScooterBJ wrote:

Nothing to do with the squeal, but for poor mileage, has the fuel pressure regulator been replaced?

As well documented by a prior poster, these go bad in time and cause rich running, poor mileage and other issues. I suppose it could eventually ruin the engine as well. My prior S'Wing had developed this issue, and at the time, I had not diagnosed the cause. Unfortunately the scoot was hit and totaled, before I had a chance to fix the issue.

I have been reworking my current S'Wing (2004, 15K miles, purchased in November) over the winter and did replace the part as preventative maintenance, since it was 10 years old.

Of lately, when I warm up my bike while putting my gloves on, my exhaust fumes smells like unburnt fuel. I have a 2002 with +50K miles. Should I suspect the fuel pressure regulator? I have not checked if fuel is leaking into the vacuum lines. I am still getting 50MPG.  May have to do the check soon.

WingMan02 wrote:

Of lately, when I warm up my bike while putting my gloves on, my exhaust fumes smells like unburnt fuel. I have a 2002 with +50K miles. Should I suspect the fuel pressure regulator? I have not checked if fuel is leaking into the vacuum lines.

I would order the fuel pressure regulator and the O-ring ASAP.

I just did order it. Thanks for the feed back. I may look at the vacuum hose this weekend time permitting.

Bigbird, can you tell me if the fuel pressure regulator is time, or mileage sensitive? I have one S/wing with 50,000 miles on it and one S/wing that is seven years old. Do you think I should order the fuel pressure regulator to have on hand?
  I apologize to the OP for hijacking this thread.

model28a wrote:

Bigbird, can you tell me if the fuel pressure regulator is time, or mileage sensitive? I have one S/wing with 50,000 miles on it and one S/wing that is seven years old. Do you think I should order the fuel pressure regulator to have on hand?
  I apologize to the OP for hijacking this thread.

Hi Rog.

I think the rubber bladder inside the fuel pressure regulator is more time than mileage sensitive. It will eventually develop pinhole leaks, allowing raw fuel into the vacuum lines at the throttle bodies. The raw fuel is sucked into the throttle bodies and mixes with incoming air, causing a too rich mixture.
I would order a regulator and the O-ring for it, because it's not a matter of if you will need one, but when.

bigbird wrote:

model28a wrote:

Bigbird, can you tell me if the fuel pressure regulator is time, or mileage sensitive? I have one S/wing with 50,000 miles on it and one S/wing that is seven years old. Do you think I should order the fuel pressure regulator to have on hand?
  I apologize to the OP for hijacking this thread.

Hi Rog.

I think the rubber bladder inside the fuel pressure regulator is more time than mileage sensitive. It will eventually develop pinhole leaks, allowing raw fuel into the vacuum lines at the throttle bodies. The raw fuel is sucked into the throttle bodies and mixes with incoming air, causing a too rich mixture.
I would order a regulator and the O-ring for it, because it's not a matter of if you will need one, but when.

Bigbird,
What the common signs that the regulator is starting to fail?

WingMan02 wrote:

Bigbird,
What the common signs that the regulator is starting to fail?

Rich running. If the bladder has a very small leak, you'll notice more soot at the exhaust end tips, increased fuel consumption, and a hotter cat converter. If the leak is more severe, symptoms are stalling after initial starting, the smell of gasoline, and wet spark plug electrodes.

The easiest way to check is to pull the vacuum lines leading to the throttle bodies (with the engine off). If there is any hint of gasoline in those lines, then the fuel pressure regulator needs replacing.