Wingless in Ontario

Hi all.

Am looking for my first scooter ("maxi"). It seems that test rides at local dealerships are, unfortunately, not an option. Of course I would test ride a used bike but, for now, I am left to researching on line before I make the leap.

Although each has its unique virtues, I'm looking at a (used - latest model/lowest mileage)
- Silverwing,
- Burgman 650 or
- Burgman 400
(I really like the Tmax on paper, but storage is a big deal for me).

The overriding question for me at this point is one of dependability/durability (and I thought I might get a more realistically critical view of the Suzukis from Honda people):
Assuming I'm looking at models no older than 2009, are there any concerns about any of these models???

Hi again, and thanks, in advance!

Hello mate, will you also be joining BurgmanUSA to get a more realistically critical view of the Honda Silver Wing from Suzuki people eh?   

Hello!

ColinB moved from Burger650 to Silverwing last year.
It'll be worth waiting for his contribution - it will probably be a day or two coming.  

prntmkr wrote:

The overriding question for me at this point is one of dependability/durability

If those are your overriding criteria on choosing a used maxi, then without doubt IMHO the Silverwing is your only choice.

The Burgy 650 uses an electronically controlled front variator, the Silverwing's is strictly mechanical. Score 1 for the Swing. It's much easier to maintain, and if something goes wrong, much easier to diagnose and repair.

The Burgy 650 uses a steel belt and complex series of gears to get power to the rear wheel. They are not user friendly to repair, and certainly not cheap. The Swing uses a rubber belt. Score another for the Swing.

Valve adjustments are suggested at 16k miles for the Swing. Nobody on this forum that I know of ever bothers to have them checked, as the Honda valve train system is well designed and not prone to wear as long as the oil and filter are changed regularly as required in the owner's manual. I can't speak for Burgy owners, but their valve adjustment intervals are half those of the Swing.

The EFI on the Swing is quite simple in design and pretty much bulletproof. On older Swings with high mileage, it's not uncommon for the fuel pressure regulator to deteriorate, causing rich running, hard starting, and eventually non starting. The regulator is easy to replace and inexpensive. Parts for the Swing are easy to procure.

The service manual is cheap to buy from www.helminc.com If you need a Burgy service manual, expect to pay a lot more from a Suzuki dealer.

I've tried to address only your criteria. The Burgy is a great scooter. It's not nearly as service friendly and easily repairable as a Swing. Is it as reliable? Check the Burgy forum as Meldrew suggested.

What lack of comfort on the Silver Wing is this then? I've had a 05 400 Burgman and a 08 650 Burgman and I used to regularly use my Airhawk seat cushion on both, I hardly ever use it on the Honda seat because my delicate butt doesn't really need it.

I have the adjustable Givi Airflow on my Silver Wing because the stock Honda screen is rubbish, but so were the OE screens on both my Burgmans which I had to replace. I have the Honda lower leg wind deflectors and heated grips fitted and handguards too, so wet and cold weather riding isn't a problem.

You live in Canada where you're only riding six or seven months or the year anyway, so why is durability a deciding factor? 

I have had 2 new SilverWings and 2 new Burgman 400's---ride a lot----both Burgman 400's and SilverWings are reliable, new and perform fine on trips----mpg 60 US on Burgman 400---50 mpg on SilverWing------Cost new Burgman 400 is about $2000 cheaper.

Burgman 650 costs more than SilverWing----would have no fear of new one in the Transmission area. Executive electric windshield plus.

Throw in TMAX---sales flop in US--I had a new one----better handling than both Suzuki or Honda, much more fun to ride----with Givi box/hump bag/and underseat storage you can haul plenty plus bag on passenger seat. Mine went bye bye---no troubles but with high mileage I felt it could be expensive to own. Aftermarket windshield required. Complicated drive train.


Bottom line: both SilverWing and Burgman well made(Japanese)---my maint. experience--both are fixable----Honda no warranty issues----Suzuki, 1st engine oil leak repaired under warranty, traded bike for TMAX, second Burgman at 20,000 miles Suzuki paid for bearings/pulley/rear clutch that were worn out----good dealer did work and had prior approval on warranty so got paid. Present SilverWing still has 6 months of warranty left. No troubles expected.

Buy again?? SilverWing is dead in US market, getting dated maybe-----Burgman 400 I would try again-----$11,000 probably would keep me off Burgman 650. I will be in market end of next year as SilverWing approaches 50,000 miles. Honda dealers more plentiful.

Ride a lot---both Burgman 400 and SilverWing have the expense of belt replacement and the costs involved.

prntmkr wrote:

I'm totally new to the whole "scooter scene," am eager to learn all I can, and stand ready to be corrected on any of my assumptions.
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  Welcome, you have definitely come to the right place.    Corrections R Us.   

Welcome,

I had a Silver Wing for 7 years and 34,000 miles and never had a problem and it was very comfortable.  I go to the Burgman site a lot to read their posts and I always wondered why they say the things they do.  But some of the more vocal ones think most bikes are 'crap'.  I would say whatever bike is the most comfortable for you is the one you should buy.  They both have about the same power and I think they get about the same mpg's.

But keep a level head and when you read anyone's post try to figure out if they are trying to give you good advice or sell you the bike they have.  Either one will take you where you want to go but if..the B650 does have a CVT failure it costs about $3500 to have the shop repair.  If you can do the job it costs about $800.  Maybe you can get warranty insurance even though it would be used. But the CVT failures are rare but it's still on the back of some minds over there.

My wife and I have been up in the mountains and the SWing did great and my wife loved how comfortable it was and smooth.

Used.....and do not do work your self, buy cheapest to fix---SilverWing or Burgman 400, new a possible and in bet condition. Worn Burgman 650 could get expensive.

Having driven all 3, my opinion, FWIW, is:

If you want sporty handling and firm ride: T-Max hands down, but...... its seat is rock hard after about 15 mins in the saddle.

If you want the lap of luxury with all the amenities (heated seat, grips, power mirrors, ext temp gauge, DC power outlet, cruise control? I can't remember): Burgy 650

If you want a decent ride, decent handling, low cost maintenance and reliability: Silverwing

Of course, YMMV.

I think its all been said. I'll add, buy a Honda. One of our members said recently to another newish scooter rider, "get one with ABS".

Greysilver wrote:

I think its all been said. I'll add, buy a Honda. One of our members said recently to another newish scooter rider, "get one with ABS".

In Canada they only come with ABS if it's a later model year.

4,400 miles is nothing at all really. So if the scooter you chose is in good shape they should last for many years after that. If it is a 2009 and you buy it with only 4,400 miles you may have to replace the tires, belts, etc. Even with only 4,400 miles they are still 5 years old so maybe the rubber on the tires is about done due to age. If you get a SWing the first mods, IMO, are a new Givi Airflow and hyperpro front springs. The hyperpro's will make it feel more like a motorcycle.

prntmkr wrote:

Hi all.

Am looking for my first scooter ("maxi"). It seems that test rides at local dealerships are, unfortunately, not an option. Of course I would test ride a used bike but, for now, I am left to researching on line before I make the leap.

Since you started picking the collective forum brain you've failed to mention any previous riding experience. You may be new to buying a "maxi” but what about motorcycles have you spent much time riding them?   

prntmkr wrote:

And I'm not quite sure why it should matter but, since you asked, currently, I ride a Suzuki GSX-R750 ...
which is not particulary scooter-like but, probably, why I was originally drawn to the Tmax.

It doesn't matter, but you'd be surprised how many new members join and ask the same questions as you about comparing the Silver Wing to the Burgman and then disappear. Questions that forum members have already answered many times before.

You can ask all you like on here but unless you're prepared to check out scooters in dealerships and maybe get a demo ride, you're going to be none the wiser to which maxi scooter is actually best for you.

You can come down the road and buy my silver wing if you like. Mint 05 with all possible gadgets and options installed! Not really for sale but flirting with the idea of switching to a goldwing or a st1300! So if someone offered......

Colin - one for you.

I've had three of the 'maxi' scooters, two Silverwings, one Burgman 650 and my current scooter a BMW C650GT. The Burgman scared me off. Their transmission is controlled by a small electric motor with nylon gear that controls the CVT variator. Very expensive when it goes bad. They are a very nice riding, quiet and smooth bike but problematic with the transmission problems that do pop up on some of them. The Silverwing doesn't have all the fancy stuff of the Burgman but then it's less expensive. The Silverwing's main strength is the fact that they seem bulletproof. Very little problem mechanically. They give good performance, good mileage, plenty of speed for the freeway and are a very good buy for the money. The BMW 650GT is one of the best performing of the maxis in my opinion. It's reliability is still unknown since the first ones were produced in 2012 so they don't have a great track record yet. They do come with a three year warranty. I do enjoy mine, it has larger wheels than the other two, a single sided swing arm which makes changing a rear tire a snap, come with heated grips and seats as well as a trip computer and tire pressure monitor. They are very good in handling as one would expect from that company. The BMW is priced just below a Burgman 650 Executive.
The Burgman 400 is also a good bike, much simpler mechanically than the Burgman 650 but it's a single cylinder engine so it's not as smoother or as fast.
To me the choices are: #1 Silverwing. Reliability, lowest cost. #2 BMW 650GT features and performance.

MikeO wrote:

Colin - one for you.

I've had two (not new) 650 Burgmans. I'm on my first (new) Swing.

I think the above post covers the mechanics, so I will comment on aesthetics and feel.

That said, it was concerns over the Burgman transmission that prompted me to change. They are known to fail spectacularly and expensively. I found the ability to select "gears" and was useful for engine braking. But the risks were too great.

I find the Swing clutch to be far smoother than the Burger, which tended to snatch, especially if one used engine braking to slow the bike approaching a junction and then opened the throttle to pull away. The Burgman would often lurch. Not nice as you make a turn.

I have to say that, on balance, I preferred the look and road presence of the Burgman - especially the white one I owned (a rare sight in the UK). I also felt slightly more secure on the road, but I still have far fewer miles on the Swing clock than the two Burgmans. Time will tell on that score.

The Burger has a more useful under-seat space - larger and more regular in shape. The Swing space is shallower at the back end.

The one thing I really miss on the Burgman is the body mounted rear view mirrors. I preferred their lower position, but more particularly, they were larger and the view didn't change when the steering was adjusted. No vibration either. I'm not keen on the handlebar mirrors on the Swing.

I positively LOATHED the Burgman instrument panel. Very 'boxy' and 70's looking. The digital speedo was a complete pain to read. The analogue dial on the Swing is far better. One can glance at a needle and instantly gauge one's speed and change of speed. With numbers, one has to think. Burger speedos are ALL 10% out (reading higher than true) which seems stupidly vague for something as definite as a numeric display.

If you intend carrying a passenger, have them sit on the back of both bikes (if you can). The Burger has a full length footboard. The Swing has pegs at the back.

Performance and rider comfort wise there's not a lot in it. I raised the bum-stop on all three bikes to become a rider backrest. The Burgman seat is harder, but wider. I used an Airhawk on the Burger (the cheaper version which punctured). I use a home made bead seat (see posts by Hotwings) on the Swing.

The Swing sounds more like a 'bike'. The curious transmission of the Burman caused it to make a whining sound - likened to a sewing machine!

If you're the sort that changes bikes as often as you change your socks, then the Burgman's transmission issues may not be a concern. If you want a bike that will go on and on ... and on without a complaint, the Swing is the machine for you.

My comments relate to pre 2006 Burgers and my 2015 Swing.

Now, if Honda made the Burgman.......

Colin B wrote:

MikeO wrote:

Colin - one for you.

My comments relate to pre 2006 Burgers and my 2015 Swing.

Do you mean 2006 Swing and 2015 Burgers?

My Burgers were 2004 & 2006. Each was a year old when purchased. My Silverwing is 2013, bought new last year (not 2015. That was a typing error!)