Last Tour of the Season

My wife and I rode the Great Lakes Circle Tour this past week and a half.  It was a little cold and windy at times.  But riding all the way around the Lakes in the fall is a stark contrast and a beautiful ride, knowing that winter is setting in here shortly.

When I logged into the forum I read this:

The silverwing600 admin team has unanimously permanently banned Meldrew from being a member of this site. In explanation for our members, I have excerpted part of his ban................

This is very saddening that this has to happen.  I don't know what the exact details are but I read back thru some of Mr. Meldrew's posts and from what I saw there was no real problem with his postings as far as forum rules.  More like some sort of personality conflict between a couple admins and Mr. Meldrew, for whatever reason.

As our Lakes Circle Tour was our final tour for the season, this will be my final tour on this forum as well.  I did not sign on here to watch admin power plays and some sort of personality conflict result in the banning of a fellow Silver Wing rider who's posts I found informative at times, witty at times, and who had obviously been here for quite some time.

This was important enough to me to say in a public post just like it was important enough for bigbird to feel it was necessary to make a public post about admins wielding the almighty Ban Hammer.  When you do that to somebody at least have the common decency to keep it private.  Reading thru other posts I notice where an admin immediately personally attacks a couple other posters as well when they make a post.  Obviously, again some type of personality conflict or power play of some sort - and very unprofessional.  I do not associate with that type of clientele, or a forum that is run that way.

I met some really great folks here.  But it appears to me that the administration of the outfit could stand to act in a somewhat more professional manner.

Regards,
--
Chris

I agree 100% I"ve watched the numbers slowly decline and I have seen many regulars disappear. I have chuckled when some of the moderators seem to get so upset over such trival matters. Reminds me of old men yelling "get off my grass".

As annoying as Meldrew could sometimes be, he did add spice and flavour to this tasteless meal!!!! I too have been taken out back and beaten for having an opinion that differed from the regime.

Agree with the post-----think admin needs to ride a lot to be authority and in some cases even get a SilverWing-----driving people away/banning will just kill this SilverWing thing......it is no longer current model and probably an updated model,real SilverWing will not come along------what happens as expensive model goes away-----the people on the forum change, many who couldn't or wouldn't make the original purchase will buy the used remainder. See what happened to original Kawasaki Concours forum-----I bought one as spare, (great new price) never really loved it (top heavy/hard to work on...but it never broke) As time went on different group were buying them and defending them. Mine traded at 56,000 miles. That forum changed a lot.

Banning=B.S. Power play. This ain't a church group. Ride everyday/take trips/ wear the bikes out.

Having followed the contributions of the other members and those of the administrators AND having reread Meldrew's more recent posts, I have now decided to edit my last posting.

This site has been a life line for me and I therefore fully support the actions of those who put in the hard work that has made this site available to it's members!

SteVe

Last first:
Meldrew helps people if and when it suits him.

This site is not a Democracy - the man who pays the piper calls the tune.
Have a vote if you wish but it won't make a ha'porth of difference.

It seems to escape some people's notice that if the only thing that 'kept the site going' was one member's argumentative and often insulting posts, the site is unnecessary.

None of you is party to what goes on behind the scenes to keep things running smoothly; there are members who prefer to air their views in private so as not to rock the boat as you all are.

Chunter away but bear in mind it is you who are stirring up discontent, no-one else.

Chris Olson wrote:

This was important enough to me to say in a public post just like it was important enough for bigbird to feel it was necessary to make a public post about admins wielding the almighty Ban Hammer.  When you do that to somebody at least have the common decency to keep it private.  Reading thru other posts I notice where an admin immediately personally attacks a couple other posters as well when they make a post.  Obviously, again some type of personality conflict or power play of some sort - and very unprofessional.  I do not associate with that type of clientele, or a forum that is run that way.

If a member is suspended or banned, the other members must know why.
Most members would be more upset if a banning occurred and no reason was given.

Meldrew's behaviour was intolerable to the moderators. We told the members just that. Consider it an explanation, warning, threat, whatever you want to call it.

You decided to pack your bags and move on. We could have edited your post, but we didn't.
This is a private forum started a long time ago. Members, moderators, and even owners come and go.
Goodbye, Chris.

On another forum I frequent, there have been temporary bans placed upon unruly posters to give them warning and a pause for reflection. Happened to a guy that was exceptionally antagonistic and trollish (is that a real word?). He was back after a couple months it seemed and his rancorous tenor was markedly subdued. He was still spirited, if you will, in his debates, but seemed to think a bit more about HOW he was making his responses.

Some times it seemed to work for some folks, some times offenders needed repeated and/or longer bans/suspensions. Remarkably, (or maybe not) many of those that were prior afflicted victims were less likely to provoke as well. Anyway that sort of practice did bring relief and a modicum of peace. But it is a very large and varied forum with several moderators I think over the several and varied areas and they seem to have it down to a fine art. (and they keep their dealings with individuals private) I wonder if something similar to that could be implemented here.

The thing is that gets most people banned from most of the forums I go to is attacking the person posting a message and not attacking the IDEA presented in their message. In other words; I think it  should be OK to say for example; " I think that is an incredibly stupid thing to do" (and here is why) But it is NOT OK to say: "You are utterly stupid for doing that"

The difference maybe subtle, but is profound. If people would really try to keep that in mind to keep a check on their egos and not attack the messenger, but OK to attack the idea then there would be fewer problems. (or at least not nearly as severe)

I know this is off topic, but thought it important enough to put forward since it relates to the current conversation.

BTW, my touring/camping for the year is over, but I have still gone out for short domestic hops to the store and such. We had just a touch of snow here in S.E. Michigan on Halloween night so time for winter storage is coming real soon.

bandito2 wrote:

The thing is that gets most people banned from most of the forums I go to is attacking the person posting a message and not attacking the IDEA presented in their message. In other words; I think it  should be OK to say for example; " I think that is an incredibly stupid thing to do" (and here is why) But it is NOT OK to say: "You are utterly stupid for doing that"

The difference maybe subtle, but is profound. If people would really try to keep that in mind to keep a check on their egos and not attack the messenger, but OK to attack the idea then there would be fewer problems. (or at least not nearly as severe)

I fully agree with you.
Many times I have said "attack the post, not the poster".

Hi All,
I tend to agree with a lot of what 'bandito2' had to say. However, I do believe his idea of "such a stupid thing" as opposed to "I think it's stupid because", was an informal rule constantly violated by Mr. Meldrew (whether he knew he was doing it or not). I often wondered why he was not chastised for such actions, and others, before (maybe he was; I'm certainly not privy to such info). Anyway, was not terribly distressed to learn of his demise (while still hoping for his 'tempered' return) and personally feel this site started out in fine fashion and continues to do very well. Not tryin' to be a "suck-up"; just my two cents worth.

The final straw for me was another unprovoked, public attack on me by Meldrew in which he once again raked up his version of the past.

He seemed to have a bee in his bonnet about things he believed happened years ago other forums. Curiously, his membership of one forum post dates the period to which he referred! Another was a forum which he openly disliked, the owner of which he appeared to hold in low regard. I joined that forum because I met the owner at a bike venue and he asked me to.

Meldrew continually referred to posts which he claimed I'd made, of which I have no recollection. To my knowledge he and I had not crossed paths until I joined this forum (again by invitation).

Does that make me bad, or give Meldrew the right to have a poke at me? I think not.

Meldew had consistently told everyone about a safety modification he'd devised, yet despite repeated requests, he refused to say what he'd done. Is that the attitude of a helpful member. I think not.

Many of his posts were negative or argumentative. Few openly helpful. He once mentioned a piece of luggage. I asked him for details which he did supply. Yet later, after my public thanks to him, he made a post which suggested that I had been ungrateful!

None of the above are the actions of a friendly member. I have noticed that his "posting style" prevails on another forum where he frequently has a dig at a member for what he sees as inconsistencies in that member's thinking. The person in question suffers physical and learning difficulties and ought to be excused, not attacked.

I said it was the final straw for me. Thus, I tended my resignation to the other admins and asked for my account to be deleted. My request was turned down. Further discussion by the others led to the decision to remove Meldrew. It was a decision which took history into account. I stood back from that action so as not to be seen as acting out of spite.

Whatever admins do will be right or wrong depending on the reader's personal view. Thus we are always damned.

My two cents:

When I joined this forum I hadn't purchased my 08 SWing yet but wanted some information about it. I learned a lot from the members and was happy to join. I did make one comment that was brought to my attention by Admins and I didn't do it again. I didn't feel it was all that bad seeing as I am part Pollack but was told about what I did. I haven't done it again.

I joined this site to learn from other members about the SWing I was about to purchase and whether or not it was worth getting. It was and I love it!

Anyway, as far as Meldrew goes, I liked some of his comments and some not much. I try to get along with just about anybody and don't like to throw stones. If the Admins tell me that I'm doing something wrong and against the rules I quit doing that. I like this site too much to take a chance of getting banned. Site Admins are just that Admins. They are like the CEO of a company who sets the rules. If you don't follow the rules you get fired. I don't want to get fired I like my fellow employees too much and want to continue conversing with them.

I don't know if I made myself clear or not but these are just my thoughts. My two cents.

hotwings wrote:

As annoying as Meldrew could sometimes be, he did add spice and flavour to this tasteless meal!!!! I too have been taken out back and beaten for having an opinion that differed from the regime.

I agree with Hotwing's comment. Meldrew, cramudgeon that he is, did add flavor to this stew. And while it was inappropriate of him to continue personal attacks on a member, couldn't the Admins have suspended him rather than "Off with his head!".

And, yes, this may not be a democracy it's not playing croquet with the Red Queen either. This is a vibrant community of Silverwing folks...the Silverwing forum. While that "other" SW fourm was ruled with an unimaginative, intolerant hand, and the "original" SW forum seems to suffer from age-related disorder, we shouldn't be too quick to dismiss those with contrary views.

And yes, I too have been threatened with banning because a heavy-handed Admin didn't appreciate or understand my inquiry about a product he was making. Let's not return to those times where we have to tip toe thru egg shells.

Tim

The problem with the tone of Meldrew's posts is that it's different for different people - the US/UK difference in 'feeling' is probably the main one.

It may be okay if you're not on the receiving-end or having to deal with any difficulty caused but when it gets to the point for moderators that they're afraid to log on because of what he (in this case) has posted he had to go. I know another mod has used the expressing 'walking on egg-shells'; that is exactly what it's like and, frankly, it's still happening because of his influence.

If people would stop 'just sayin', we'd be able to restore some kind of equilibrium.
Please let's drop the whole thing.

Incidentally, I deleted Brubaker's account as he,too, was stirring unnecessarily.....and in his final post he said he was leaving - I just helped him on his way.
However, if I'm not mistaken there is nothing to stop him opening a new account as he hasn't been banned.
I'm keeping an eye out elsewhere to see if he says he has been.
I say again: he left and I tidied up after him.

john grinsel wrote:

-think admin needs to ride a lot to be authority
Banning=B.S. Power play.

Here you go again with your obstinate opinions.

The owner of this forum need not be an authority on anything Silverwing.
The owner of this forum need not even ride 1 day of his life if he chooses.
The owner of this forum and its moderators are here to see that it is run in a respectful and consistent manner.
The members should be the authorities on things Silverwing related.

If a Meldrew type is going to come on here and insult members, then they will be banned. For you to state that banning is BS and a power play only tells me that your 1 week suspension taught you nothing.

My suggestion to you is to leave this forum and start your own if you don't like the way it is administered.
This is not a public service. It is a private forum.

Don't post any more criticism of the forum ownership.
If you're not happy here, then just leave. I and the other mods are getting tired of your constant criticism and bitching.

Pssssssst bigbird, did you not read the post before yours bud

MikeO wrote:

If people would stop 'just sayin', we'd be able to restore some kind of equilibrium.
Please let's drop the whole thing.

You'll get a slap, you will.

Here's a vote in support of the admins decision.

Meldrew was essentially offensive. "Curmudgeon" would be a very kind description of his personality.

Good riddance.

Gary

I too agree with the administrators right to make day to day decisions. When my disagreement with their decisions becomes more than I wish to tolerate, I will go elsewhere. That way we both keep our rights.

Having followed the contributions of the other members and those of the administrators, AND having now taken the time to reread Meldrew's more recent posts, I have now decided to edit my last posting.

This site has been a life line for me and I therefore fully support the actions of those who put in the hard work that has made this site available to it's members!

SteVe

The Bern wrote:

Pssssssst bigbird, did you not read the post before yours bud

Yes I did, bud.

I had to address Grinsel's nonsense, again.

And I'm getting tired of his nonsense.

gdenn wrote:

I agree 100%  I"ve watched the numbers slowly decline and I have seen many regulars disappear.  I have chuckled when some of the moderators seem  to get so upset over such trival matters.  Reminds me of old men yelling "get off my grass".

I suggest some restraint before rocking the boat with your first post.

By the way, have you read the forum rules?

Where's your introduction to the members?

Meldrew was often un-kind to others; I won't miss him.

hardee41 wrote:

Meldrew was often un-kind to others; I won't miss him.

X2 My only question was why did it take so LONG?

GHM-PM wrote:

hardee41 wrote:

Meldrew was often un-kind to others; I won't miss him.

X2  My only question was why did it take so LONG?

Despite what some may think, we are not heavy handed, and anytime a decision is made, a lengthy consultation goes on in the background.
We do take suspensions and banning very seriously. They really are a last resort, and we certainly take no pleasure in it.

bigbird wrote:

Chris Olson wrote:

This was important enough to me to say in a public post just like it was important enough for bigbird to feel it was necessary to make a public post about admins wielding the almighty Ban Hammer.  When you do that to somebody at least have the common decency to keep it private.  Reading thru other posts I notice where an admin immediately personally attacks a couple other posters as well when they make a post.  Obviously, again some type of personality conflict or power play of some sort - and very unprofessional.  I do not associate with that type of clientele, or a forum that is run that way.

If a member is suspended or banned, the other members must know why.
Most members would be more upset if a banning occurred and no reason was given.

Meldrew's behaviour was intolerable to the moderators. We told the members just that. Consider it an explanation, warning, threat, whatever you want to call it.

You decided to pack your bags and move on. We could have edited your post, but we didn't.
This is a private forum started a long time ago. Members, moderators, and even owners come and go.
Goodbye, Chris.

And yet, someone who's posts are ten times worse only gets a temp ban. I'm leaving this place as well, case it's no longer a place for people to hang out and shoot the breeze, but a place to snipe and annoy.

DarthJ wrote:

And yet, someone who's posts are ten times worse only gets a temp ban.  I'm leaving this place as well, case it's no longer a place for people to hang out and shoot the breeze, but a place to snipe and annoy.

The permanent ban was done for maliciously intentional posting.

The temporary suspension was done for repeated posting out of ignorance.

Hopefully the enlightenment garnered from the suspension will nullify the ignorance.
But something tells me that's wishful thinking.

So that's now two who have left the forum of their own volition, leaving what, 2665 satisfied customers?

IMO, Mildrew made people, especially new users, feel very unwelcome to this forum.

His attitude, just like John Grinsel when he basically says you need to have ridden a zillion miles to have a a valid opinion, is very hostile towards beginners.

People who come here do so for the information, but that's not all. They will basically judge the helpfulness and character of this forum by how they are treated after that first post, be it a question or a comment or just a "I love my swing" post. They don't need to be told to go to the introduce yourself forum or that they are retarded for not searching first. Insulting someone and making them jump through hoops is probably the worst way to welcome them.

Here's a fact, if you ask a question about how to put your Silver Wing on a trailer you are going to get insulted on this forum. If you ask a question about darkside tires in an open forum you are likely to get insulted on this forum. If you ask a question that has been answered already and you didn't search for it, you're going to get a smack from some self-righteous jerk.

Is that really the best way to welcome new users? You probably wouldn't do that if a person approached you in person, thinking that you might have the expertise to help them. "Um, I'd like to help you, but have you fulfilled the requirement of introducing yourself to all my friends first?" or "Of course I know the answer to your question, but since you may or may not be able to find the answer on google, I'm not going to tell you." Don't be that guy.

Anyway, I applaud your decision. Deep down you know it was the right thing to do.

P.S. I just bought a pair of snow pants to wear over my riding jeans, so my season will live on! I'm good down to 39 degrees tested so far. Down here in dirty restroom land, it doesn't usually get much colder until February. Now if I can just keep my fingers from freezing off.

DuggleBogey, I agree with most of what you say.

Regarding the rule about an intro, that was introduced before I was involved with moderating.

However, I do see both sides to that controversial request.

I don't see it as being a deal breaker, just a courtesy.

Is there something wrong with a "Hi. I'm DuggleBogey, from Middle Tennessee, with a 20xxn Silverwing. This is my first post. Could someone help me with a noise I'm getting from the rear of my bike when I am just starting off or pushing it backwards. My bike has xx 000 miles and I just replaced the drive belt".

That sure beats the snot out of "Whazzup? My bike's making a grinding noise from the arse end. Help!"

There's nothing wrong with it, but I'd rather try to treat people how you'd treat them in person, not as if they've violated the rules or done something wrong.

Why not just ask "Hey, maybe this is what's wrong with your bike, and by the way, where abouts do you like to ride and how long have you been riding?" Like you would if someone asked you a question at a dinner party.

Seriously, the Maxi Muppets site basically says "Introduce yourself first, or we're going to treat you like crap." Is that really the way people want to be? All you do it chase off the beginners who don't know any better. Nobody wants a smack on their first interaction. It's just not nice.

DarthJ wrote:

no longer a place for people to hang out and shoot the breeze, but a place to snipe and annoy.

I'm sorry, but you're wrong. It was sniping by the member which led to his ban.

steveonfarm wrote:

having now taken the time to reread Meldrew's more recent posts....

Be advised that the member's final few posts were edited by admin to remove some of the more inflammatory content. Thus reading it cold may not convey the full impact of the original.

Oh dear, I see this thread is still top of the list, I wonder how many potential new members have read it & gone away never to return.
Mostly my thoughts on this whole subject will remain mine, however I do entirely agree with Meldrew's viewpoint on new members saying hello & even if he sometimes put it across in a blunt manner it could (to my mind) never have been taken as threatening unlike an Administrator's reply to a first post in this thread ..

bigbird wrote:

gdenn wrote:

I agree 100%  I"ve watched the numbers slowly decline and I have seen many regulars disappear.  I have chuckled when some of the moderators seem  to get so upset over such trival matters.  Reminds me of old men yelling "get off my grass".

I suggest some restraint before rocking the boat with your first post.

By the way, have you read the forum rules?

Where's your introduction to the members?

The Bern wrote:

Oh dear, I see this thread is still top of the list, I wonder how many potential new members have read it & gone away never to return.

Do you suggest that we delete it?

I'm sure that action would attract accusations of censorship, heavy handedness and abuse of power.

If we don't act. were wrong.
If we do act, we're also wrong.
If we act and explain our actions, we're still wrong.

We really can't win.

Hi Colin

yes it is a bit of a cleft stick sort of situation, I doubt that there is any clear & easy way to conclude it, but it does raise some points that could be usefully addressed.
I like some/many/most on here am also a member on other scooter forums, you know this anyway as we are both on X9 O.C as is Mike,Mike I think is also on Muppets (that or someone is using his sig line),on the X9 forum IIRC until a post is made in the introduce yourself section a lot of the technical areas are not visible, could that not be applied here.
What are the communities thoughts on that I wonder.
As for the opinion of our colonial colleague ""Introduce yourself first, or we're going to treat you like crap." was not apparent to me when I joined the Maxi Muppets recently, not particularly for for tech' info more to see if there were any local to me ride outs/meet ups.

It's cold as he!! up here in Maine, but I'm going for a ride.

The Bern wrote:

As for the opinion of our colonial colleague ""Introduce yourself first, or we're going to treat you like crap."  was not apparent to me when I joined the Maxi Muppets recently, not particularly for for tech' info more to see if there were any local to me ride outs/meet ups.

I am not exaggerating. It LITERALLY says in the intro section "Make your first post here or feel the wrath of the Muppets."

Discuss it on Muppets please.

Colin B wrote:

Discuss it on Muppets please.

I concur

I apologize, I was just defending my statement, which was called into question.

Apology accepted, but please next time use accurate quotes rather than your personal interpretation bud

My point is I don't think this place should be like that, and that you shouldn't start people off with a threat. It's just not nice.

And you don't know me, I'm not your "bud."

Sorry no offense intended I was just being me, everyone is bud to me because I like to think we are all friends, hey ho I guess I got it wrong

Hi All:
First I'd like to say Chris, your last trip sounded great, glad to hear. Second glad to see Dennis B back in the game. Third, with out pointing any fingers to anyone but the site has not been the same in the last couple of months with or with out Meldrews presence. I had posted a week or so ago that I had received a new Corbin seat and didn't even get one reply back on it. I wasn't expecting much but at least a congrats and how does is feel. Just my 2 cents on the matter.

Correction on my last post. I thought Dennis B was back. Unfortunately I was looking at another post that was old.

Deno070 wrote:

Hi All:
 with out pointing any fingers to anyone but the site has not been the same in the last couple of months with or with out Meldrews presence. I had posted a week or so ago that I had received a new Corbin seat and didn't even get one reply back on it. I wasn't expecting much but at least a congrats and how does is feel. Just my 2 cents on the matter.

Same here. I put the effort in to post pics and full detail of my trailer build with few responses. Yet there are pages of guys arguing over nothing!!!!!!! I have concluded this forum is mostly comprised of a bunch of bored and boring ornery old geezers (i replaced my original adjective with geezers) .

If you post with the expectation of receiving a reply, unless you're asking a question you stand to be disappointed.
Posting responses to posts is not obligatory and it may be that those members who happen to be reading the forum are not interested.

Members have expressed the 'right' to post messages outside the acceptable framework, exercising freedom to say what they like and are upset when told they can't; it seems somewhat contrary to demand replies to posts, thus denying posters the freedom to reply or not.

The arguments are begun by those very people who want freedom for themselves but wish to deny it to others....and yes, I'm a boring old geezer who wants only peace and harmony without having to endure the sniping of youngsters.

hotwings wrote:

I have concluded this forum is mostly comprised of a bunch of bored and boring ornery old geezers

Look at the demographics of maxi scooter ownership.
You've come to the right place. :lol!:

hotwings wrote:

I have concluded this forum is mostly comprised of a bunch of bored and boring ornery old geezers

Ornery?!... Geezer? Hey ya better watch out what yer say'n there. I just might have to take you out behind the Senior Center and teach you a thing or two.

Right after I take my nap...

Cosmic_Jumper wrote:

hotwings wrote:

I have concluded this forum is mostly comprised of a bunch of bored and boring ornery old geezers

Ornery?!... Geezer? Hey ya better watch out what yer say'n there. I just might have to take you out behind the Senior Center and teach you a thing or two.

Right after I take my nap...

Too funny.......nothing better than a 10 minute afternoon nap

10 minutes..........I like a full hour after lunch so I can stay up late.....till 9.pm!