Silverwing vs Burgman

Recently purchased a SW and because I also own a Burgman 650, I was naturally curious about how they compare. Yesterday I took the Burgman to town as I had a few observations.

The Burgman is physically larger and chunkier in heft and weight. It feels like a big bike, like a Goldwing. That's not necessarily a bad thing and for touring, makes the Burgman exceptional. Having just come from riding Goldwings the last 5 years, the big Burgman is very comfortable for me and I personally like the weight of it. Everything is relative as I thought about flickability  for urban riding. The SW is way more flickable but comparing the Burgman to a Goldwing reminds me how flickable the Burgman is too.

Having owned a Reflex, I can't help but think the SW is a Reflex on steroids. I looked at my rpm yesterday on the Burgman and clocked 5200rpm at 85mph indicated. My SW, with brand new belt and sliders clocks in at 5800rpm at 85mph indicated. So the Burgman is running a lower rpm as it can be sensed in engine sound and lack of engine buzz compared to the SW. Yesterday I was comparing acceleration and roll on speed as the SW is more spirited unless one uses Power Mode on the Burgman. It drops the transmission to a lower gear ratio and runs a thousand rpm higher for snappier acceleration or engine braking.  I seldom use Power Mode though and most I know who ride Burgman's don't either. So, the SW is more sport like to me as to being more nimble and quick on it's feet. That kind of snap is available on the SW all the time whereas with the Burgman, one would have to be in Power Mode. Burgman Drive mode is bit poky for me.

Having never owned nor ridden a SW 600, I can't comment about it's abilities, but the people on this forum sure love them.

I came very close to buying a new one and that's why I joined this forum some time ago.

All forums have their member's that are zealots and biased----until they switch brands and then it starts over again.

With my 2012 B650 Executive, I'm on my 4th Burgman 650 and every time I ride it, it puts a big smile on my face. Well, actually so does my 2013 Kymco Xciting 500RI ABS, which reminds me almost exactly of my past Yamaha T-max 500. I like all scooter's and to round out my experience, I want a SW 600 and a Vespa 300, neither of which have I owned.

I just sold my 2012 Goldwing, my second and all I miss is the real cruise control, the comfort and the kick-Butt, 550 watt surround sound stereo!

I just went for a ride Monday into the NW side of Arkansas and cruised the B650 most of the day at 75mph and the thing was so smooth and quiet I almost felt like I was on my Past Wing.

Good luck with the SW.

Sam:)

Cruise control is the one thing I miss from my Goldwing. I have a Rostra electronic cruise control sitting in my garage waiting for the warranty on my BMW C650GT to run out. Once that's gone, it takes a while since there's a three year warranty, I'll install the cruise control and have it all once again. I have CB on the scooter so my GW friends can talk about me when we ride together

I've got perhaps the nicest throttle locks on my Burgman, a Breakaway Cruise Control and is rather pricey. Not as good as electronic though as hills and elevations slows one down but for riding solo, it's OK. I've also got one of the Crampbuster too which can easily be moved from bike to bike. I've kept up with a Goldwing forum that I'm a member of and do some Meet and Greets with and miss my CB. I also ride with a Burgman group who uses an FM radio for communication as I may go that route on my SW.

I've had my SW for 2 years now. I guess it's pretty typical to see other bikes and dream about owning them instead. I've been drooling over the Burgman pretty much the whole time I've owned my SW. I've read all about it, watched youtube videos and read all the reviews I could find.

Yesterday, I got to ride a 09 650 Burgman. It is REALLY nice. It's even more than I imagined. I really liked how you could switch into power mode..it then behaves a lot like my SW with dr pulley sliders, and then turn it off again when it's not needed. I loved the feel of it. It feels like a mini goldwing.

But I realized something. I wouldn't want to get rid of my SW to get a Burgman. I'd rather have both. The Burgman feels a lot heavier and less nimble. It would be perfect for long rides, either alone or with my wife. It would be great for road trips. But I think I would miss having my SW to run around town with. To me, they would serve two different purposes. I like them each for different reasons.

As far as CBs and FM radios go...you guys do know they have these bluetooth units now that fit your helmet? You can communicate with others up to a mile range. You can pair it with your phone and listen to anything available on the internet and you can take phone calls.

Porkie wrote:

Having never owned nor ridden a SW 600, I can't comment about it's abilities, but the people on this forum sure love them.

I came very close to buying a new one and that's why I joined this forum some time ago.

All forums have their member's that are zealots and biased----until they switch brands and then it starts over again.

With my 2012 B650 Executive, I'm on my 4th Burgman 650 and every time I ride it, it puts a big smile on my face. Well, actually so does my 2013 Kymco Xciting 500RI ABS, which reminds me almost exactly of my past Yamaha T-max 500. I like all scooter's and to round out my experience, I want a SW 600 and a Vespa 300, neither of which have I owned.

I just sold my 2012 Goldwing, my second and all I miss is the real cruise control, the comfort and the kick-Butt, 550 watt surround sound stereo!

I just went for a ride Monday into the NW side of Arkansas and cruised the B650 most of the day at 75mph and the thing was so smooth and quiet I almost felt like I was on my Past Wing.

Good luck with the SW.

Sam:)

Hi Sam/Porkie,

Very interesting what you say about the Burgman 650, and even though I have never owned one, I highly respect it. For a Maxi-Scooter though, my Silver Wing will do for the time being.

However, I am now somewhat interested in the "New" Yamaha T-Max 500 which I have only read about. As you have owned an earlier one, can you tell me a bit about yours, and why there was a hiatus in production for a couple years until now? What did they change? Would you buy a new one?

Also, I think the Kymco builds a good product too; any comments about the Xciting 500Ri, and the My Road 700i. I live in NE Florida, and the Kymco dealer chain here leaves me "cold".

I thought the New Yamaha TMax was a 530 but I could be mistaken. We have a good Kymco dealer here so local support is no problem. For us the problem with Kymco comes when traveling. If I didn't read so many forums I wouldn't know how hard finding a Kymco dealer is for a lot of people. It's a shame because Kymco makes some nice scooters.

I was scared off the Burgman 650. I had a SW and decided to sell it and buy a B650 for it's greater carrying weight. I did like the bike, easiest maxi to refuel of all, I liked the features though the one I had didn't have ABS. It was the Burgman forum(s) that scared me off. The machine I had only had about 8k on the odometer but when I checked the infamous 'stopper' bolt it was pretty chewed up already. Then came the reports of transmission problems. One I got looking into it more closely I realized the variator was operated by a small electric motor with nylon gears. Not too skookum. The only reason I can see for engineering such a complex gearbox was to be able to offer that 'paddle shifter' that allows people to think they're better at shifting than a fly weight CVT. Compared with the B650's transmission all the other maxis are an exercise in engineering simplicity with reliability in mind. Admittedly, not all Burgys fail, but if it's yours...
Here in the Grants Pass/Medford area there's only one Suzuki shop and they say if you had a transmission failure you'd have to take your scooter down to the Bay area for a dealer who'd work on it. We do have a decent Honda dealer here and a very good BMW dealer. Not that you'd need a dealer to do anything on the SW. I'm not sure about the BMW yet because it's still in warranty (3yrs). It does have a lot of electronics for the bells and whistles so the jury is still out on that. On the SW I really do think that one is bullet proof and well proven to boot.

Okkkkkkkk almost bought my friends B 650 but instead bought my 05 600 S'wing. So what is this " stopper bolt " and it's function? If he doesn't know about the potential problem I'd advise him on it. TIA Al

I have a B650 Exec. and it is now on it's 3rd drive belt with 97k. The previous owner had replaced at about 50k and I did at 94k. Typical dealer cost to replace is 2-3k. I replaced it for 500 as I did the job myself with the help of a friend. The belt is internal in the transmission as the tranny has to be pulled to replace the belt and a frame member prevents removal so engine has to be pulled. The B650 is called the throwaway scooter has some will junk it or part it out due to the high cost of repair. Outside if that it's a fine scooter as I've had three but I decided to go with the SW and hopefully have lower maintenance/repair costs and have the peace of mind in knowing that my scooter is reliable and can be trusted, especially on a long trip. Any Burgman 650 owner approaching 60k better be prepared for expensive repairs to their transmission/belt.

Burgman 650-----I would not be afraid of new/off the showroom floor650 and it would work well for me for the 50,000miles I usually ride a new bike. Most rider complaints come from riders who bought used/old-----have trouble and expect Suzuki to pay for fix. Based on weight Burgman 400 works better for my scooter riding style

To: Model 28a

Yes, you are right; the new T-max does have a 530cc engine. It also looks to have a higher center section" so I wonder if one must "throw the leg over" instead of stepping thru? Can't tell from the photos alone.

It is advertised as being more "Sporty" than the SWing, Burgy 650, et. al.

Can you or anyone else elaborate on that, as well as what can be expected from the new T-Max.

I have never owned a Yamaha of any "stripe", and I think that they do not make any road vehicles under their name. However, I have heard from several sources that they superb designers and manufacturers of engines, especially ones used in their air-cooled, belt driven motorcycles.

Reply to Exavid:

Yes, I have heard several similar accounts of the Burgy 650 as you described. Rather disconcerting for someone shopping for a Maxi-Scooter, huh?

And the scarcity of dealers is also a concern. Even though I use a dealer only when absolutely necessary, they are usually able to get replacement parts in a hurry, and do emergency repairs - well maybe.

Same for Kymco I suspect.

Not another Silver Wing v Burgman comparison topic with the usual second hand scare stories about dodgy 650 transmissions that have been doing the rounds on forums for years. Yes, there's a few ex 650 Burgman owners on here including myself and nearly all of us had the older models, not the revised 650 Burgman that's been around since 2012.

I didn't get the Burgman Grin with either the 400 or the 650, but a lot of riders on both sides of the Atlantic have been longtime Burgman owners for years without major mechanical problems or failures. Instead of constantly rehashing the same topic, might I suggest having a read of the many Burgman v Silverwing topics on the BurgmanUSA forum to see why they chose the Suzuki over the Honda.

No intention on my part to knock the Burgman 650 and in fact I have sellers remorse selling mine. All the expensive repairs are done so it will be good for another 50k. If I don't get what I want for it, it will stay in my stable. Both scooters put a grin on my face.

I wish the Silverwing had 14" or 15" wheels.

If one day I go back to a scooter I would not dismiss the B650 but I would buy the 5 year extended warranty. I know what you are talking about Meldrew on the B650 site about comparisons. It seems more like the Burgy better than the SWing but many still make comments on the belt. I know it is a very, very small percentage but it is just a very expensive repair cost. I wish they would bring the Intregra over here really. I have the CTX, which uses the same engine and drivetrain, and I love it. I think the Integra would be a great bike and many SWing riders would go with it.

I agree with you on the Integra. I'd sure like to see it here in the US. I'd be very interested.

Having owned, with my 2012 Burgman 650 Executive, a total of 4 B650's and a new 2009 T-max 500, I feel qualified to answer about the T-max.

The T-max is what a "Sportbike" scooter would be designed like, with a real front suspension with dual triple trees, R1 Spec dual brakes on the front, BIG 15 inch tires, a WET clutch, with CVT drive and on the 500, an oil immersed chain rear drive, replaced by an external belt on the new 530. Compared to the B650, the Cadillac or RV of scooters if you may, the T-max is not quite as fast in a straight line if the B650 is set in MANUAL mode. In drive mode, they are dead even in acceleration. BUT and this is a big Butt, once the roads turn into sweeps, up-hills, down-hills and curves, the T-max will flat leave the B650 as it would surely do to the SW600. It is a racing scooter in disquise. It holds less under the seat than the B650 and the ergonomics aren't quite as comfortable but it is a hoot to ride and the 500cc or 530cc, water cooled, fuel injected, flat parallel twin, frame mounted is bullet proof, quiet and vibration free. I only averaged about 40 mpg on mine because I rode it almost everywhere at 75 mph! Some folks had electric fuel pump problems quickly rectified by the dealers under warranty.

I hope this helps you regarding the T-max 500.

Sam

I've only ridden once on a T-max and can vouch for your review comparing the machines. I don't know how the BMW C600 would compare because I've never been on one. On the BMW forums the 600 gets great reviews but unfortunately they like many scooters didn't see well in the US and are no longer available. Apparently the GT model sold much better. Probably because most young guys want to ride more powerful sports bikes. The C600 has the same basic frame and engine as the GT but was lighter and set up for a more sporty ride with different handlebars and seating position. I would have enjoyed trying one but our dealer here only brought in a few GTs all of which have been sold except for the one he keeps to ride himself.

I will give you my opinion on the Silver Wing vs. the Burgman: The Burgman has way too many design flaws. I have decided to dump mine on my local CraigsList and stick with my Silver Wing. Suzuki blew it with their design flaws in the Burgman 400 and the 650. Both Suzuki scooter are beautiful pieces of ****.

mouka,

You shouldn't say that Suzuki's are bad but just that you bought a 2007 with a problem.  It could be a very simple fix or maybe that is why the B400 has so few miles on it.

Last year I visited a Kymco dealer in Jacksonville on Beach street very close to the Joe's Crab Shack and they seemed very nice and helpful, even though I was not looking to buy. Their supply of new scooters was very impressive, even though their showroom space wasn't. But Beach Street has to be an expensive location. Are they still there or did they close up?

Yes, Mr. Bogey, they are still open and this id dealer I was referring to earlier (Beach Blvd location).

The name is Solano and their site is: http://www.solanocycle.com/

They also have dealerships in Orange Park (adjacent to Jacksonville to the south) and St. Augustine.

My negative comment about them were because they would not allow me to speak to their mechanic about a technical question I had at the time.

Also, my experience with their staff was they were often flippant and cavalier about my questions and were a bit pushy.

For my part, I like what I see in the Kymco, but am concerned about service here in JAX and out in the country.

JeffR wrote:

mouka,

You shouldn't say that Suzuki's are bad but just that you bought a 2007 with a problem.  It could be a very simple fix or maybe that is why the B400 has so few miles on it.

I have been on the Burgman forums and read a ton of horror stories about the Burgman 400. It is a pretty bike with too many design flaws. Suzuki blew it when they designed it. They should have been forthcoming and recalled their scooters and fix the issues with the clutch. That would have earned them some loyal customers. They decided not to do it and that's their choice. As far as am concerned, I will NEVER EVER look at a Suzuki scooter again.
My next scooter will probably be the CTX-700 or a Yamaha TMAX.

The CTX is a motorcycle where you can get the manual or DCT version and it is a nice bike. They say the TMAX is the best handling scooter but I think they are $11,000 which is a bit more than I want to spend. I was stretching it with the DCT at about $9,000 for the fairing version.

I remember reading the Burgman forums in late 2006 and early 2007 and hearing about the squealing problem. We have a member here, Daboo, that had a 2007 and was very happy with it. His never gave him a problem. Not everyone got the clutch problem but it seems the ones that did either got Suzuki to replace them later on or they just put in an aftermarket clutch. I know that clutch problem and some getting the CVT break down on their B650 but it doesn't mean they aren't good. You might want to try and fix your clutch so you can get your asking price. If someone rides it and experiences the shaking and shuddering they may not give you what you want. It may not be that difficult to fix it.

The problem with the 400 clutch is just glazing of the pads from build up of dust and dirt from the pads themselves. The fix is very easy: Periodically put the front tire against an immovable object and give the engine enough fuel to make the clutch pads spin against the housing for maybe 4-5 seconds, to scour the dirt away. The clutch on the 400 and the SW is no more sophisticated than one found on a go-cart or chain saw, only bigger.

The B650 and the T-max have a wet clutch that doesn't have the problem.

The B650 doesn't have a transmission problem at all, in any significant numbers. The CVT belt is considered a lifetime belt and most go at least 50,000 miles before replacement and lots have exceeded 100,000 miles or more. The replacement belts are approximately three times as much as the common scooter belts and the labor is much higher because everything is completely sealed against dust and dirt. I would do it myself.

How often and at what expense do you replace belts on other scooters??

Sam:)

Porkie,

Maybe the occasional "chatter" noise (when I start up) is merely glazing on part of the clutch?

Even though I have only 8K miles on the scoot, this could be possible, Yes?

So if I use your method of scouring away any dirt/glaze on the clutch pads, it should eliminate the noise, Yes?

Thanks for the idea anyway.

Sam,

The belt should be changed very 16,000 miles with the SWing. Many riders have gone much further and when I meaured my belts they had plenty left to go.

The transmission thing comes down to the fact that it costs around $150 and takes about and hour to change (the first time). It's an easy job. My first SW had a bit over 20k miles on the odometer and was still on its original belt. I changed the belt only because of the mileage. Comparing the new belt to the old one surprised me because there was very little difference in measuring the two. Lots of black dust inside the case but a couple thousandths of an inch worn off the sides of the belt would account for the dust. Not enough that I could see any difference in RPM vs. MPH.
Add to that the fact that you don't read about transmission failures on the SW forums. The B650 is a great scooter to ride but the undeniable reliability of the SW tips the scale for me. One thing I do miss from the B650 I had is their ease of refueling. That gas cap on the rear is sooo much better than the one on my 650GT and the SW.

Tom, on the Burgman forum, in the 400 area, this method is mentioned to deglaze the pads, I'm just repeating what I've read as I've never had the B400.

Sam:)

Guess a lot of riders doing this comparison do not ride a lot/use their bike everyday/or haul a lot-----but the Suzuki on the underside of the rear rail has tapped/pre-drilled 6mm holes----6mm bolt with keeper nut allows location/locator for cords/hooks---very handy hauling stuff or rubber bag on passenger seat when you travel. Not a feature of the SilverWing.


As long time rider, I like features like this!

Hook bolts are listed as accessories for the 400 Burgman but they're unnecessary if you use an Ortlieb rack pack. All you do is loop the end strap under then over the grab rail, clip the the male part of the Fastex buckle into female ends on the rolled down opening of the bag, and cinch it down tight. I've used that method for years, the bag is waterproof and secure and the straps don't mark the grab rails as I have them in towelling sleeves.

As a long time Ortlieb user I thought everyone did this.

john grinsel wrote:

Guess a  lot of  riders doing this comparison do not ride a lot/use their bike everyday/or haul a lot-----but the Suzuki on the underside of the rear rail has tapped/pre-drilled 6mm holes----6mm bolt with keeper nut allows location/locator for cords/hooks---very handy hauling stuff or rubber bag on passenger seat when you travel.  Not a feature of the SilverWing.


As long time rider, I like features like this!

Yes, John, it is a feature on the SWing. Just feel around under the lower part of the rear fender on each side, and you will find a metal loop sufficient for any bungy cord or tie down.

To Admin-----why do my replies often get edited out? Remember I am actual rider.

Sorry Mr Grinsel, I am unaware that any of your recent comments were edited out. It's not the practice of our Administrators to edit out anything --and certainly not without informing the poster of that step.

You recently posted at ~17:00 yesterday. That post still remains and has been quoted & replied to by Tom G in his post at 05:11 this morning. If you've posted a relevant comment to that topic since then and feel that it is missing perhaps you could post it again.

Tim

John, If an admin edits something we will put a note in the edit box or PM the person. What was edited? Thanks

My reply was---to hooking on tab on lower part of rear fender afterthought---that plastic fender is not stressed for long haul forces on it.....and there still isn't any positive point to keep front hooks in place.... I rode at least 20,000 miles last year with two rubber bags on rear seat----nothing fell off I haven't had bag fall off since 1958 (Denver)----but had tire on way to dump, fall of=cheap duct tape job....last year

Note: As I like to go into underseat storage will traveling the is solution available from Aerostich for about $15, clips (from Japan) that are screwed on lower seat edge, that cords can be hooked to.

Tried them on one Burgman....at least you get into underseat storage with out taking bags off.....of course seat is pretty unbalanced, but works.

John,

Thanks for reposting.  Like I said in an earlier post if an Admin would have edited your post we would put a note as to why but we also like to PM the person to tell them why.

But keep posting John, we don't want someone like you to leave the site.  We like your posts and value you as a member and a very active member at that.

Thanks, Jeff

john grinsel wrote:

Note: As I like to go into underseat storage will traveling the is solution available from Aerostich for about $15, clips (from Japan) that are screwed on lower seat edge, that cords can be hooked to.

Tried them on one Burgman....at least you get into underseat storage with out taking bags off.....of course seat is pretty unbalanced, but works.

I also tried a set of those seat hooks on a 400 Burgman, not from Aerostich as they're widely available here in the UK. I used a set of four on the seat to hold the shock cords I'd fitted to the cover of my Airhawk cushion in position (my early version didn't supply straps). I didn't screw the hooks to the lower edge, just used the U shaped adhesive pads on them and nipped them up a bit. They held the Airhawk secure enough, but after a year or so they looked pretty unsightly as most of the plastic coating had cracked and flaked off and the exposed metal rusted. They also left four rusty marks on the seat cover when I removed them.

What's an "actual" rider?

I like the idea of some under seat hooks. I have some aluminum (For Meldrew and the UK guys, aluminium) scrap that would make nice non-rusting hooks.

DuggleBogey wrote:

What's an "actual" rider?

FYI: actual
adjective
real, true, genuine, authentic, verified, attested, confirmed, definite, hard, plain, veritable; existing, existent, manifest, substantial, factual, de facto, bona fide; informal honest-to-goodness, real live.

In contrast to Virtual (adjective):
simulated, artificial, imitation, make-believe; computer-generated, online, virtual reality.

Not a trailer biker.

Not a trailer biker most of the time but I have hauled my B400 to California, Arizona and Colorado on vacations with my wife. Riding a 400 to these destinations 2up is doable but so is riding to Alaska on a 50cc Ruckus. For solo riding I've ridden up to 3000 miles on my Maxiscooters and plan to do more. Deb and I have ridden on a few overnight trips on our big scooters but usually less than a thousand miles. We're planning a trip soon to the Texas Hillcountry and will trailer our scooter down for some day rides to look at the wildflowers that are so famous for this area. I must say though, that one of the advantages of riding 2up on our vacation trips is that it severely limits what the Mrs. can buy and take home. Yes, you can have it shipped but that's one more hoop to jump through in the purchase and may be enough for the wife to not buy it. However, if you're the one who is the buyer, stick to little things like pocket knives and flashlights.

Lots of people trailer for lots of reasons, like disabilities, old age (Like John Grinsel ) or to be able to take the family along in the comfort of the towing vehicle.

Best vacation I ever had was when myself and several riding bud's took my friends HUGE motorhome and my LARGE motorcycle,ATV trailer, filled with Harley's to the 4 corners rally, in Ignacio, CO, right south of Durango. Beautiful KOA (No dingy motel) no sore ARSE from the 1,000 mile trip just to get there in 95 to 120 degrees heat and beautiful, spotless and happy bikes to ride on the many touring rides through the mountains of Colorado.

We normally ride everywhere and most of our rally's we attended, Like Sturgis, 4 corners and the Yuma Prison run, ended up being between 600 miles to a total of 6,000 by the time we made it home.

An aging population has benefits:)

Sam:)

Well heck you had Harleys with you. Of course you trailered them. :lol!:

lol.

sAM

Sold my B650 last night and deliver today. Made a 200% profit over original purchase.  The Executives bring big bucks even with the 97k it had. This is an end of an era after owning 2-650's and a 400. Now it's time to bond with my SW and enjoy it like I did the Burgman's.

Enjoy the honeymoon:)

Sam