Silverwing 600 vs Burgman 400

Hi,

I have purchased 3 scooters within 2 weeks time span:
First I bought a 1995 Honda Helix in decent shape and only 5500 original miles. That's what got me thinking about buying an even bigger scooter. I have to say that I am following the reverse process for almost everybody: I have ridden what one would call "Real Bikes" for over 20 years. But I found a cheap Honda Helix on my local CraigsList and decided to buy it to run errands with it. I found myself having so much fun with it that I decided to buy an even bigger scooter. So I went shopping on CraigsList and found a 2007 Suzuki Burgman 400 with 789 miles selling for $3100. Needless to say I jumped on the occasion. A week later, I found a 2008 Silverwing with 9300 miles on it selling for $3000 even. I bought that one too.
So now I have 3 scooters and a 2004 Honda Aero 750 in my garage.
I am hesitating between selling the Burgman or the Silverwing.
I know I am preaching to the choir here, but what would you do if you were in my shoes? Which scooter would you sell and which one would you keep and more importantly why?

I'm in the same boat as you with 3 bikes and asked myself the same question. Being a SW forum, naturally the bias will be for the Honda. I decided I didn't need 3 bikes either and decided to choose one to replace them all. Yesterday I rode my Burgman to town and it ran like a Swiss watch and I asked myself, why am I getting rid of such a fine machine? I fired up the Ferrari, my 919 and stretched it's legs and thought; you will regret selling this bike. However I decided on the SW as my do all bike. The SW is easier and cheaper to maintain than the Burgman or 919 and is a simpler and lighter machine, comparing 650 vs 600. The B400 is perhaps about the same weight

I've owned both Burgman 650's and 400 and they are fine machines and would not be a bad choice. The SW will offer more 2up abilities at interstate speeds and have generally faster acceleration. Hard for others to tell you what to choose. Which one speaks to you?

Two weeks ago you didn't have a scooter and now you have three - believe you need to step back and get some extended riding experience with each of them before making a sale decision. This will also get you in touch with the types of riding you plan on doing and which scoots will fill the need best. Will you be doing any overnight trips by yourself or with a group? Will you be carrying a passenger and how often? How much interstate would you plan on riding?

I would expect the Helix to be the errands and around town scoot but it is capable of some longer rides on secondary roads. The SW will certainly carry passenger and gear with the extra muscle of the twin cylinder but the Burgy 400 is capable with gear without a passenger. Lots of things to consider so take your time.

I have had three maxi scoots for over three years and still ride them all during the summer - latest addition was a 2007 Burgy 650 Exec with 2k actual miles - still learning and enjoying this one. My oldest and first scoot is an Aprilia Scarabeo 500 GT now with about 27k and is still the most comfortable of my bunch.

Enough said but make sure that you consider all the important points before passing one of your fleet to its next good home.

Rick V

Having had 4 new HELIX and 175,000 miles on them....I like them


Also bought 2 new SilverWings and 2 new Burgman 400's....I like them all of them-----Burgman is lighter, has necessary features like 4 way flashers/electric outlet, easy adjust seat back----both work well with Givi adjustable windshield, Burgman gets up to 10mpg better on long trips. is almost 100lbs lighter than Silver Wing. Both handle as scooters. Both start well in extreme cold, Honda may be better below zero. Both use same size tires-----Suzuki is still current model, it appears SilverWing is done. Between SilverWing and Burgman I have near 100,000 miles on them.....I might tend to keep Burgman, based on weight and maybe cheaper insurance.

I am not going to sell the Helix unless I need a $1000 cash. I am extremely hesitant between the 400 and SW. The Burgman 400 is practically new with only 7xx miles. The Silverwing has a bigger engine and can easily handle my 230 lbs a** and the 150 lbs of my wife. But then again, the Helix can handle us both albeit it suffers in low gears.
The SW is a Honda after all. And as far as I know, Honda engineers rarely come up with anything than near perfect. The Helix I own is the perfect proof for that.

For the record, I never ever would take a scooter touring. I just use my bikes to get fresh air and run errands around town. My wife loves that too. I think she secretly likes to think of us as teenagers without any mortgage to worry about or braces for the kids or anything of that sort. For a few hours, when the kids are at school, we actually feel like teenagers all over again.
So all in all, I will use my bikes for scooting around town. That's all I use them for. I don't even consider them a mode of transportation. To me scooters are grown up toys. They bring a huge smile to my face each time I ride them and my daughters and wife all agree on that.

I would keep the Helix because it's probably the most comfortable scooter I've ever ridden. I would sell the Burgman because for me I sat too close to the handlebars and it sat too low for me. I would keep the Silverwing because it fits me best and the 583cc is nice to have incase you need the extra power. I think you should ride all of them for a bit and see what fits you best and meets all your needs.

Make sure you ask the "teenager wife" who rides with you.    

I'd keep the Silverwing because they are about as bullet proof as any scooter built. Also easy to work on if necessary. The Burgman 400 lacks a bit of performance for me. I've had a Burgman 650 but got worried about the transmission bugaboo and didn't like the overly complex CVT system. The SW 600 performs well and lasts a long time. I did sell my SW for my current BMW C650GT because the GT has a larger payload rating which I wanted for two up riding. I also do like all the bells and whistles on the GT like being able to check the oil and tire pressure just by looking at the instrument panel, the heated seats and grips, electric windshield, etc.

mouka wrote:

For the record, I never ever would take a scooter touring.

Each to his/her own. But before making such a statement you might give it a try. Honda billed the Silver Wing as a "touring scooter" and i took them at their word

So far I have three trips of between 1000 and 2000 miles on my SWing and today finished a short trip of 625 miles! Pictures soon. Even though I have a "real" bike in the Goldwing, I really enjoy touring on the little Wing!

And amazingly, I get into so many interesting conversations due to the scooter; people always ask about it while out on the road, I have met some cool people that way! Many more comments than when I take the Goldwing.

Cao!

I have found the farther away from Florida I get the more people ask about it. People have a hard time believing that a scooter can make trips of thousands of miles.

Let me clarify something I have said before: I never ever go touring on ANY bike. The Silver Wing is no exception.
All I need to know is that the Silver Wing is a reliable scooter that will give me years of riding joy with the minimum maintenance possible.
I put at most 300 to 400 miles a year. So all I do is run errands and go around town whenever I need to get some fresh air. So I will probably put another 2 or 3 thousands of miles on it for the next 5 years. It will end up being the main means of transportation for my daughter in a few years.
Bikes in general demand your attention when you are riding, and that's their main attraction for most of us. Once you hop on your bike, you completely forget about mortgage and work issues and house repairs or anything that bothers you. It's just you and the open road.

I got interested in maxi-scooters when I met two guys from California at Crater Lake. They were each riding a Burgman 400. Left California to British Columbia and were on their way back home. That incident caused me to buy my first Silver Wing. I did replace it with a Burgman so the wife and I could go two up without overloading the scooter but went back to a SW because I liked it better. Due to some comments from the other half I sold the second SW and got a BMW650GT. I really like this scooter but since talking a couple of friends into buying SWs I'm considering looking for another SW. It would look better if the "miled ones" had matching scoots. I reluctantly have my BMW K1100LT up for sale, I can't ride it very far without knee pain. I can ride long rides easily on the GT. I do like to have a spare bike so I can ride one if the other is down for repairs or maintenance so think I'll look for a SW as a stable mate for my GT.

I had the Majesty, which is similar to the B400, and had the SWing as well.  I found the SWing a nicer bike and I think it was because it has the engine mounted to the frame and is a heavier bike. I found the Majesty to be a really nice, smooth bike but on the interstate the SWing was just nicer.  I could ride longer on the SWing and not feel as tired after 5-6 hour rides.  It also seemed smoother on the interstate as well.  And when riding 2 up or on the interstate you find the additional power very nice to have.  When going up mountains the SWing did a much better job than the Majesty and you don't need to give much throttle at all.  But the Majesty was a very nice bike and I'm sure the B400 is too. You can't go wrong with any of the popular scooters that are sold in the USA really.

If you don't plan much interstate riding at all and it is mostly in town the B400 may be a better choice.  It does get better mpg's and has 60 or 62 liters of storage compared to the SWings 55 liters.  But I would only buy a B400 that is 2008 to 2015.  The pre '07 Burgmans had a different engine and used oil and the '07 had Burgmans with a clutch problem, which is the year that you have. They redesigned the clutch 2 times in 2007 because of it.  But they fixed all of that with the 2008 and later models.  If you do get the B400 and want better acceleration since you will ride 2 up you may want to think of Dr Pulley sliders and it will give a good boost.  I put the Malossi variator in my Majesty and it did a great job but you can do the same thing much cheaper with the sliders.

I thing about the SWing that just about all scooters riders agree with is that it is bullet proof. So if that is one of your main concerns the SWing is probably the most bullet proof bikes you can get. Make sure your 2007 doesn't have the clutch problem before you decide. That may be one reason the owner didn't put many miles on it. Go to the burgmanusa site and ask about the clutch problem with the 2007. It seemed they had to replace a lot of clutches with the 2007.

One thing that makes or breaks a scooter for me is it must be a twin. Single cylinder engines just don't have the oomph and they vibrate more. The twin cylinder maxis are just better in traffic with their more rapid acceleration when needed.

My 2003 Burgman 400 used oil at higher interstate speeds and nearly all did. I always carried extra and would check it frequently. Did a trip to Big Bend with a group of Burgman 650 riders and had no problem keeping up. There's allot of 400 owners on the Burgman forum that like the 400 better. My wife and I rode up the coast highway in California on our's too and took to Colorado. It's an amazing scooter too. However, with that being said, I personally like the larger scooters for 2up riding and touring. The 400 will do it all too but a SW 600 will do it even better.

JeffR wrote:

I had the Majesty, which is similar to the B400, and had the SWing as well.  I found the SWing a nicer bike and I think it was because it has the engine mounted to the frame and is a heavier bike.  
I thing about the SWing that just about all scooters riders agree with is that it is bullet proof.  So if that is one of your main concerns the SWing is probably the most bullet proof bikes you can get.  Make sure your 2007 doesn't have the clutch problem before you decide.  That may be one reason the owner didn't put many miles on it.  Go to the burgmanusa site and ask about the clutch problem with the 2007.  It seemed they had to replace a lot of clutches with the 2007.

mouka the 583cc twin cylinders, the frame mounted engine and simple transmission make the Silverwing best in it's class. in my opinion.
I know on the Burgman forum one man will tell you the Silverwing has a swingarm mounted engine like all the smaller scooters and you experience that feel on take off. And the 650 and the T-max have a totally different set up and feel because frame mounted engine. He's mistaken the Silverwing does have a mounted mounted engine like Jeff pointed out above.
Also someone on that forum posted a link to this forum with a search for "vibration" because all the problems the Silverwing has with vibrations, and it has 26 posts on one page. I just searched the Burgman forum for HERE'S THE LINK FOR VIBRATION ON THE 400 and came up with 500 posts on 20 pages.
I didn't argue with ether poster because I try not to put down the Burgmans and preach the benefits of the Silverwing on a Burgman forum.

Exavid You have the best of the lot!....I also have a Swing and a c650 gt. I have almost 19000 on the Beemer and quite a few on the Swing. Both perform excellent. Like they say the Swing is powerful and bullet proof,and You will find the Beemer a better all around Scooter!....Scooter Trash.

Because many members do not ride a lot SilverWing appears cheap to keep-----but ride 30-40,000 miles ayear----at least 2 drive belt changes a year is quite an expense, even if you do work yourself, in my experience----tires not cheap at the above rate. Don't ride a lot,
SilverWing doesn't cost much to sit in Garage.
Big Burgman bought new, does not require belt change. Something to think about-----and now that SilverWing appears to be out of US current market, meaning old ones need work because of age and that is not cheap, too.

At least for now you can still find old ones with full warranties at some dealers, and for less money than a current year would cost. The only thing you need to replace is the rubber if you're uncomfortable with it.
The 07 that I bought last July with 3,500 on it, now has over 10,000 miles and It's still has the factory tires and CVT belt. I keep a good eye on my tires for cracking or any signs of dry rot. I think there's enough tread a few more thousand miles. I'd say 2/3s of the tread worn down maybe still 1/3 left? Even if you're uncomfortable and replace the tires and belt($500?), you're still saving a couple thousand because they are leftovers.

john grinsel wrote:

Because many members do not ride a lot SilverWing appears cheap to keep-----but ride 30-40,000 miles ayear----at least 2 drive belt changes a year is quite an expense, even if you do work yourself, in my experience----tires not cheap at the above rate.   Don't ride a lot,
SilverWing doesn't cost much to sit in Garage.
Big Burgman bought new, does not require belt change.   Something to think about-----and now that SilverWing appears to be out of US current market, meaning old ones need work because of age and that  is not cheap, too.

You shouldn't buy belts at Pep Boys.......

When you get down to it riding a scooter to save money is a bad idea. You can buy a used Toyota Corolla pretty cheap and drive it for a lot of miles on one set of tires. Gas mileage isn't all that much different either. The reason to ride on two wheel for the most part is because it's fun. Driving an econobox isn't particularly fun. More comfortable probably. Safer, definitely. More carrying space, sure. But it isn't as much fun as a scooter or bike. So don't get too hung up on the cost of operation, think of it as a ticket to an E class ride.

Agree on cost of owning/riding scooter or motorcycle----if used for all transportation, a new leased Hyundai Accent with heater/ac, etc probably costs less than big scooter. Having used Scooter or motorcycle for my fun/transportation needs since 1955----am about to stop.

I would beg to differ about saving money riding a scooter as there is a substantial difference in fuel costs for me riding my SW vs my LTZ Duramax 2500 PU. Yesterday I rode 200 miles doing bids for my business in several cities. I get 3-4x the gas mileage of my scooter. If I do that regularly, which I do, I save allot on fuel. I realize there are other costs of ownership too but apples to apples, I spend a grand a year on tires on my truck and these are not big monster tires but standard heavy duty truck tires. I just had new tires mounted on my SW and total cost including mounting was 200 which will probably last me about a year. Yes, if you're comparing small imports to scooters it may not save much but if you drive a huge diesel like I do, there's a huge cost differential. I operate a foundation restoration company and pull a 10,000 pound trailer regularly, so I have a need for a fuel guzzling truck but when I can, I leave the truck at home and operate my business from the scooter.

I already know how a practically new Burgman 400 compares to the Silver Wing: The Burgman vibrates like crazy and is nowhere near the quality of the Honda. The Burgman wins hands down in the area of looks, but I couldn't care less about looks when the scooter vibrates so much at low speeds.
Honda makes the best bikes period. I will never argue with anybody about this simple statement. I have given up on Yamaha bikes after two major design defects on my Yamaha V-Star 650 and Yamaha V-Star 1100. Now I have given up on the Burgman line of scooters from Suzuki. I will stick to Honda bikes from now on.

Mouka, you sure talked your way fast out of that Burgman. I agree on Honda quality and decided to put all my eggs in one basket too with my SW as I sell my B650. Too bad though that you don't like your 400. I had a 2003 and loved mine but was a little too unpowered for me. The 650 is a fine machine too but I've wanted a SW for many years now and every time I was ready to buy one something would come up and take my scooter money. I think we'll both be very happy with our SW's and hope you get many happy miles with yours.

Here we go again, some early 2007 onwards K7 400 Burgmans had vibration problems that was reported by some owners on the UK Muppets forum. There were some other faults for the first year or so too, all were sorted under Warranty

Since then the 400 Burgman has evolved into a very good medium sized maxi scooter with lots of happy and satisfied owners on the Muppets, and there's plenty of stuff out there to accessorise and personalise it. There's also a lot of interest in when the next 400 Burgman is coming out.

In comparison the very good 400 Majesty went completely under the radar sales wise alongside the Burgman, was discontinued and replaced by the X Max.

Meldrew,

I don't think anyone is talking bad about the B400 but that the 2007 had a big problem with the 3 shoe clutch they came out with. On the Burgman site many were very mad about the new 2007's due to the squeal. The OP's B400 is no longer under warranty which means he will have to pay to get it fixed and since his Swing works fine it sounds like he would rather have the scooter that runs the best. If he is willing to buy a new clutch and have it installed than the B400 may be a better choice for what he wants to do with his scoot. In the U.S. many people had problems with Suzuki fixing their bikes so they many people on the Burgman site just bought their own H.I.T. clutch and installed it or had their dealer install it.

Are there plans to redesign the Burgman 400? I had the Majesty and I think the only redesign they did was a better seat. The Majesty may not have been popluar but it was a very smooth bike. I wish they came out with a twin 600 for it since it was so smooth.

The Burgman 400, at least mine, is simply a beautiful piece of ****. Fortunately I only paid $3100 for it and I can very easily sell it for even more considering the fact that it has less than 1000 miles on the clock.
For someone who has never been on a big scooter before might find the vibrations normal and can even get used to it. I am coming from big bikes with manual transmission and this kind of vibration is simply not acceptable.

Defending New series Burgman 400's----I bought one new that developed engine casting oil leak----Suzuki paid for everything at about 15,000 miles---I felt need for different bike, traded to TMAX 500(really fun...but as miles piled, I thought maint. could be expensive) so dealer had leftover new SilverWing, so I traded, nice price, this SilverWing at around 40,000 miles traded for another new Burgman400.

Back to defense of Burgman 400---enjoyed riding it, better gas mileage than SilverWing, 4 wayflashers nice safety feature, electric outlet. At 20,000 miles stopped in Dalton GA Suzuki to buy new drive belt----clutch and outercase bearing crapped out in their parking lot-----got Suzuki prior approval for all warranty work. Lots of parts, new belt.
Bike was traded at 44,000 miles for another leftover Silverwing

Member with vibration complaint...get it to Suzuki. Normal use they don't shake


I do not mind buying new leftovers----if price right.

Speaking of the Yamaha Majesty I parked my GT beside one at a local store today. First time I've ever seen one up close. It must have been pretty new because it looked like it just came off the showroom floor. A beautiful red too. I don't know what engine size it was, never knew until a looking them up today that they ran from 125-400cc.

Do you think that Suzuki will pay for the repairs on my bike even if it's 8 years old? I am tempted by making a trip to a local Suzuki dealer and have them take a closer look at this bike.
The BurgmanUSA forum members are suggesting that I ride it for a while and see if these vibrations go away. Someone that was in the same situation made the suggestion because he went through the same stuff I am experiencing. He said that the belt hardened in some spots and that was what causing the vibrations. He rode his scooter hard for few hundred miles and the vibrations simply disappeared.

i would take it for a nice long ride and see how it does. I doubt Suzuki would pay for the repairs but you can try. If you break down your bike you should see if you have the 3 shoe clutch or the 5 shoe clutch. Most people on the Burgman site replaced the 3 shoe clutch with a H.I.T. clutch and it sloved their problem. I will only cost you $20 in gas to put a couple of hundred miles on it to see if that works.

exavid wrote:

When you get down to it riding a scooter to save money is a bad idea. You can buy a used Toyota Corolla pretty cheap and drive it for a lot of miles on one set of tires. Gas mileage isn't all that much different either. The reason to ride on two wheel for the most part is because it's fun. Driving an econobox isn't particularly fun. More comfortable probably. Safer, definitely. More carrying space, sure. But it isn't as much fun as a scooter or bike. So don't get too hung up on the cost of operation, think of it as a ticket to an E class ride.

Yes an E ticket was good for the highest class rides.
It's been a long time since you needed tickets instead of an armband or pass. You're giving away your age.

Suzuki will probably not pay on 8 year old bike.....unless there is a recall involved. I always try to ride under warranty---current SilverWing is out of warranty by 3 months or so---so I have to eat cost of anything that breaks, chance I have to take.

Like to add a plus for 400 Burgman. It does not have Linked brakes!! Rear brake is very handy as balancing aide in close quarters used by skilled riders.

I know Honda with SilverWing has made it as idiot proof as possible......and the rear come on first, etc.----but getting older and shakey don't like the thought of front coming on when I do not want it.

I consider my Burgman history. I put it for sale on my local CraigsList for $3500. If it fetches $3300, it's gone. It is simply not acceptable that a new bike vibrates and rattles so much at low speeds.
Thanks for your input on this comparison. As far as I am concerned, the Honda wins hands down. It's a Honda after all.

Update: My Burgman is now history. I sold it today for $3200 and the guy who bought it was ecstatic. I figured what was wrong with it: The tires were under inflated. After putting more air pressure in the tires, it ran like a dream. I still prefer my SilverWing over the Burgman 400.
If anybody ever dares to compare them, I now know what to tell them: The SilverWing wins in every category. Period!

Good to hear that it sold quickly and you didn't lose any money. I'm sure you'll be happy with your Silverwing for a long time.

Oh geez, and I would have given you a grand.

I actually made $100 in the whole deal. Someone is extremely happy with his Burgman 400. I made $100. All in all, it wasn't a bad day.
I went 2-up with my wife on the Silver Wing and it performed flawlessly. I also changed the oil, the oil filter and got a new battery. I am EXTREMELY satisfied with my little scooter.
Next will be changing the tires as it still has the original Bridgestone. They still have a little bit of tread left in them. Maybe enough for this riding season.
I just need a service manual in English and I will be extremely happy.

Mouka,

It is good to hear you are very happy with your new SWing. I know when I bought my SWing, and rode 2 up with my wife, it had plenty of power and was very comfortable. How did you and your wife like your SWing? You may find that you will put many more miles on your SWing that you first thought. Congrats.

Ah yes... the happiest days in a scooter owners life, much the same as boats, airplanes, houses, etc. The day you buy it and the day you sell it. Congratulations on the change.

mouka wrote:

For the record, I never ever would take a scooter touring. I just use my bikes to get fresh air and run errands around town.

So the drama about the 'beautiful piece of crap' 8 year old Burgman with 800 miles and terminal vibration problem ends, and the source of the problem was not a dodgy clutch, or a glazed belt, but simply under inflated tyres.

It's nice to have a happy ending and you solved the problem by adding some of that fresh air you get while out running errands to the stale 8 year old factory installed air in the tyres, it's obviously worked wonders!

Sorry you didn't like the 400 as I believe it may be the most popular Burgman on the Burgman USA forum. I wouldn't rule one out in my future if I ever need to drop down to a lighter scooter. I rode mine to Big Bend from East Texas and did the Davis Mountain loop, Mc Donald Observatory and the river road along the Rio Grande from Precidio to Terilingua. And I trailered it out west to Sedona and San Diego, riding the Coast Highway from SD up to Huntington Beach and did the run up the mountains to Julian, riding 2up with Deb.

JeffR wrote:

Mouka,

It is good to hear you are very happy with your new SWing.  I know when I bought my SWing, and rode 2 up with my wife, it had plenty of power and was very comfortable.  How did you and your wife like your SWing?  You may find that you will put many more miles on your SWing that you first thought.  Congrats.

Funny thing is, my wife liked the looks of the Burgman 400 way more than the Silver Wing. But yesterday she hopped on the backseat, and because the previous owner had installed a big backrest, she was ECSTATIC about how comfortable the seat was and how much room was left between us. Enough for her to put her handbag. She was so happy with our ride that she suggested that I sell all my other bikes and just keep the Silver Wing.
I can only imagine how she would feel on a Gold Wing. My guess is that she would ask me to sell the house and keep the garage for the Gold Wing.
Anyway, it is a nice story with a very happy ending.
I am only missing a service manual in English because I would hate to learn German just to make sense of the service manual I have found by Googling a little bit.

Meldrew wrote:

So the drama about the 'beautiful piece of crap' 8 year old Burgman with 800 miles and terminal vibration problem ends, and the source of the problem was not a dodgy clutch, or a glazed belt, but simply under inflated tyres.

It's nice to have a happy ending and you solved the problem by adding some of that fresh air you get while out running errands to the stale  8 year old factory installed air in the tyres, it's obviously worked wonders!  

Are you this grumpy naturally or are you trying hard?
Gosh, a British fossil that is riding a bike. That is really odd!!

What's odd about a British fossil riding a bike, there's a quite a few of us on here, we ride all year round and posses proper waterproof riding gear not glorified golf wear. Unlike yourself I'm a fossil that's got the confidence and experience to ride a maxi scooter a lot further than round town doing errands, I've got a push bike to do that on. I also realise the importance of regularly checking tyre pressures. Just imagine how embarrassed I'd be if I'd just joined this forum and immediately started posting about vibration problems and rubbishing my newly purchased Silver Wing, only to find out later it was down to operator error as I'd been too lazy to check the tyre pressures.

Touche! Ashot across the bow from a British 74!++++++

Wonderful-----somebody does not have long time bike experience.