Daytime & foul weather lighting

There's a surprising number of topics on maxi scooter forums started by members who've fitted spotlights, LED's or uprated bulbs in blue/white or yellow tints, or on the merits or downside of installing a HID set up. Which is fine as there is plenty of choice as technology moves on and makes them more efficient and easier to install.

The common thread missing in all these topics is anything remotely to do with night time riding which seems to me to be the whole point of uprating or adding extra lights. I've yet to read anything about daytime lights fitted which offer a better spread of in addition to the stock headlight at night time, or when riding in fog or mist where the stock headlight beams efficiency is reduced.

Let's be honest, a lot of these lighting upgrades are simply vanity projects.

Hi Meldrew Been off Website for a while as my computer was hacked into and could not use it.I do agree all the gismos with lighting usually fitted by people that never ride at night or in bad weather.As time goes on we have to live and let live, if it makes some people happy where's the harm?.

Agree on the vanity-----ride a lot, just more junk to go wrong.

Does anyone have any suggestions or experience with adding or upgrading light to improve  driving visibility under misty / foggy conditions?

Replacing the OEM headlight bulb with an HID bulb is brilliant (pun intended) for night riding. However it is hazardous to on-coming traffic and doesn't improve riding visibility in foul weather. Are HID projector conversions (yes, it can be done) an improvement? Are yellow/amber fog lights actually effective and, if so, would 'brighter' fog lights (i.e. LED or HID) be even more effective?

I always appreciated the Lambretta Rally Master model with the twin Lucas Flame Thrower lights on the leg shields. Presumably they were intended for use during nighttime rallies in all weather, but were those aux lights actually effective?

Tim

I was in a store dedicated to truck accessories the other day, and I did see single row LEDs in yellow labeled FOG. So apparently there are some accessories small enough to fit to a bike.

In South Florida USA we rarely get foggy days (<5/year) but during hurricane season it can rain hard.
I've never seen a motorcycle with dedicated fog lights here.

Dan

It is really riding that counts.

have to say, my silver wing has lights permanently on as is the norm for all recent uk regd bikes. My 82 gold wing aspencade also has permanent light on as it was an american import. The only one not permanently on is the virago but I leave that on dip as it does tend to overcharge and dry the battery. Must say no one needs to add extra lights, the dip beam has the best output of any bike or scooter that i've owned (and that's been quite few), main beam not much better but good enough.

I have driven in fog so dense that I couldn't see the end of my vehicles hood with my non blinking eyeballs extending 3" beyond my face trying to see taillights or the edge of the road. Doing this on a motorcycle??? I don't think so....if its foggy stay off the road and live another day!!

hotwings wrote:

I have driven in fog so dense that I couldn't see the end of my vehicle <> Doing this on a motorcycle??? I don't think so....if its foggy stay off the road and live another day!!

While I agree with you in principle sometimes staying off the road, or pulling to the side of the roadway isn't possible.

When I was still employed and working shifts I would finish my 10-6 night shift to a dense fog at times that would hang over the Ohio river valley. I would leave the dispatch center that was on the river bank and head north to the Allegheny river and continue my journey 18 miles ridding in morning fog. REAL fog beams was a must on all my vehicles. I found out the hard way that the HID setup on the silverwing was a bad idea in the fog.

Hi All:

Apart from being able to see better with additional lighting on the Swing it is also good be seen from any angle. I have been toying with the idea to purchase the Lumenflex LightRider for my helmet. I figured since the head is the highest point of the rider then it is the most visible to others. I have not seen one in person as of yet. https://www.lumenflex.com/


I have tried to attach a picture of it but am currently having issues with it, sorry Gentlemen.

Will this help?

I wonder if the addition of extra 'day' lights is counter-productive in that they may alter the perceived outline of the bike and make it more difficult to identify as a motorcycle.

We all know that too many motorists just aren't looking out for us but if we are making it more difficult for us to be seen, it's unfair on those who do try!

I'm not sure that makes sense but I have in mind camouflage paint schemes such as on tanks and warships in WW2 that break up a familiar outline.

I passed a surprising number of adventure bikes with daytime lights fitted on the opposite side of the A1 yesterday, going to and returning from the Muppets meet at the Imperial War Museum at Duxford. I noticed they look a lot better fitted high up on tall adventure bike than lower down fitted to a maxi scooter. They also give a wider light profile to oncoming traffic at night as they're nearer the headlight.

Unlike bada** biker boy on his cruiser roadster thing I played cat and mouse with for a few miles out of boredom.He had his main beam on full all the time and no central or number plate rear lights, just a pair of tiny red lights where the indicators should be.

As for that 'pearl necklace' LED gadget for helmets, it would be a lot simpler to buy a helmet with a hi-vis yellow, red, or orange paint job. Orange especially stands out from a long distance and is the reason off-shore power boat racers wear helmets in hi-vis orange.

That's very interesting, thank you.

I've had it in mind to fit a high-level brake-light on my top box - I had one on my previous Silverwing and fellow-riders said it was a good thing.

I guess that would conform to the 'high up on a tall adventure bike' category.

Mike,
I fitted a set of red Admore LED lights behind the reflectors on the topbox. (Honda OEM) Used one of DennisB's connectors to wire them in. They sit at quite a good height, about eye level for car drivers, and are on all the time the ignition is on. They also work with the brake lights, but I didn't wire in the turn signals. (For our colonial cousins, UK turn signals have to be amber!)
They were a bit costly, but I think worth it.
Pics in my album.

Graham

Thanks Graham.
It's the Admore ones I was looking at.
On my previous Silverwing I had the Admore Mini Light Bar mounted under my top box and I also used a DennisB connector. Fortunately, I have another one!

The turn signals were amber. The only dodgy bit was the three flashes when I applied the brakes. I chose to ignore that and hope for the best.

You've made up my mind for me - thanks!

PS Pictures in my Album

Mike,
This is the kit I bought - as far as I remember, the only option when I bought mine was all-red lights.

http://admorelighting.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=59&product_id=60

I've just trawled through the Admore site again and I'm sure you're right.
I shall have to toss a coin to decide whether to get top box lights or the bar; the indicators on the bar were very good.

Thanks again, Graham

MikeO wrote:

That's very interesting, thank you.

I've had it in mind to fit a high-level brake-light on my top box - I had one on my previous Silverwing and fellow-riders said it was a good thing.

I guess that would conform to the 'high up on a tall adventure bike' category.

My husband used the Admore led light kit that fit the V46 Givi top case. Works excellent, in their face!

melodys39 wrote:

My husband used the Admore led light kit that fit the V46 Givi top case. Works excellent, in their face!

'In their face'! That's a pretty selfish attitude to take towards other road users. I'm sure you'd be pissed off if you were waiting patiently for traffic lights to change and a couple of cars in front of you had their high-level brake lights on and were searing your eyeballs with high-intensity red LED's.

None on my S'wing but the G'wing yes not for ANYTHING than to help save my butt here in deer country, both lights were set to illuminate the SIDES of the road to help with eye shine and any movement that could be detected. One can appreciate them more after being impacted with said deer while driving a cage something I've done and don't like. No I don't ride the S'wing at night and if I did it would have those lights also. Actually the lights only give you an edge, the deer whistles / electronic sounders are near to worthless as deer hear in the same range as we do and from my nearly daily observation of them has show they pretty much don't care about us until it gets near deer season then their activity changes and they get really crazy.

Meldrew, most motorists do sit with their foot on  the brake pedal and dazzle those behind with their high level brake lights especially when it's raining and dark !  Perhaps the parking brake is becoming obsolete on modern cars even those with electrically operated ones .

Yes, you sit behind these idiots at night time and then ride off with the images of their brake lights burned into your retinas.

Meldrew wrote:

Yes, you sit behind these idiots at night time and then ride off with the images of their brake lights burned into your retinas.

Better your seared retina than my speared butt.

The legal requirement in the UK is that the Parking Brake be applied when the vehicle is stationary in all circumstances.
The inapropriate use of brake lights and high intensity fog lights (when there is NO Fog) are but one example of the don't care less about others using our congested roads.

A designated STOP sign means just that, and not just only slow down, and then only slow down or stop if a vehicle whom has the right of way is seen.

Bad driving and lazyness are the only reasons poor drivers fail to operate and comply with the UK highway code and traffic law., plus poor levels of enforcement by the Police.

Unfortunately the traffic Police are insufficient in numbers to make any impression on the drivers whom are and remain a menace to other road users including motorcyclists and pedestrians.


In situations of collisions or vehicle roll backs for example by accidental release of the foot brake, the onus of responsibility rest solely with the driver and no one else.
The result being probable prosecution and considerably higher Insurance premiums for several following years.

bikerboy wrote:

Meldrew, most motorists do sit with their foot on  the brake pedal and dazzle those behind with their high level brake lights especially when it's raining and dark !  Perhaps the parking brake is becoming obsolete on modern cars even those with electrically operated ones .

Stuart Walker wrote:

The legal requirement in the UK is that the Parking Brake be applied when the vehicle is stationary in all circumstances.
The inapropriate use of brake lights and high intensity fog lights (when there is NO Fog) are but one example of the don't care less about others using our congested roads.

A designated STOP sign means just that, and not just only slow down, and then only slow down or stop if a vehicle whom has the right of way is seen.

Bad driving and lazyness are the only reasons poor drivers fail to operate and comply with the UK highway code and traffic law., plus poor levels of enforcement by the Police.

Unfortunately the traffic Police are insufficient in numbers to make any impression on the drivers whom are and remain a menace to other road users including motorcyclists and pedestrians.


In situations of collisions or vehicle roll backs for example by accidental release of the foot brake, the onus of responsibility rest solely with the driver and no one else.
The result being probable prosecution and considerably higher Insurance premiums for several following years.

Am I understanding correct that in the UK you use your parking brake when stopped at a red light?     Here we use the parking brake when we park on a hill or steep incline. I wouldn't dream of using the parking brake when stopped at a red light or anytime other than when parked.

bikerboy and Stuart Walker are referring to UK car drivers, the vast majority of cars sold here have manual/stick shift transmission so there's a clutch pedal. At a red light most drivers just change into neutral and keep their foot on the brake pedal instead of using the hand/parking brake. As every car built from the Nineties onwards had to have high-level brake lights as well as the standard ones and hi-intensity LED's are becoming the norm, it is a nuisance especially at night time and when it's raining.

More and more new cars are also fitted with white LED lights at the front, plus car 'enthusiasts', chavs, and boy racers install badly adjusted HID lights, illegal mega wattage halogen bulbs, or an array of foglight, spotlight, or longe range driving lights that wouldn't look out of place on a World Rally Championships car.

As already mentioned a lot of these idiots drive round with the lot on during the day and at night where there's no visibility problems at all, simply because they're showing off and they're inconsiderate dickheads.

Then there's the hi-intensity red rear fog light fetishists who switch it on at night time when theirs no fog, it irritates the hell out of any rider or driver stuck behind them.

IMHO a lot of this behaviour is similar to scooter riders that fit hi-intensity junk under the catch all label of safety and hi visibility. Smug in this knowledge they couldn't care less that they're dazzling and pissing off other road users as long as it makes them feel safe.

'Better your seared retina than my speared butt'.

Discuss...

I am fairly certain that it is now illegal specifically to sit stationary (the car, that is) at traffic lights or wherever with the car's brake-lights on - the handbrake must be applied and the driver's foot off the brake-pedal.

MikeO wrote:

I am fairly certain that it is now illegal specifically to sit stationary (the car, that is) at traffic lights or wherever with the car's brake-lights on - the handbrake must be applied and the driver's foot off the brake-pedal.

That idea sounds ridiculous! How is the approaching vehicle supposed to know your stopped? Everyone over here sits with brake-lights on. It makes even more sense on rainy days and at night to do so.

hotwings wrote:

MikeO wrote:

I am fairly certain that it is now illegal specifically to sit stationary (the car, that is) at traffic lights or wherever with the car's brake-lights on - the handbrake must be applied and the driver's foot off the brake-pedal.

That idea sounds ridiculous! How is the approaching vehicle supposed to know your stopped? Everyone over here sits with brake-lights on. It makes even more sense on rainy days and at night to do so.

I know you and some other members of the forum have an aversion to riding in the rain and have mentioned this in previous topics. We of course suit up and get out in it, it's not much fun sitting behind a driver at traffic lights at night with the rain droplets on your visor making the glare from hi-level brake lights or a rear fog light even worse. You won't of course have any experience of this sitting in a car with the wipers (and brake lights) on.

Its better to have little glowing rain droplets on your visor than ending up in the guys back seat because there was NO indication that he was stopped!

hotwings wrote:

That idea sounds ridiculous! How is the approaching vehicle supposed to know your stopped? Everyone over here sits with brake-lights on. It makes even more sense on rainy days and at night to do so.

It's pretty easy to tell if a vehicle is stopped or moving really, especially when approaching a queue of cars at traffic lights when they will all be stopped.
After all, cars parked at the side of the road don't have brake lights on but it's pretty easy to see that they are stationary.

I think most people seem to ignore that rule anyway (or, more likely, just don't know it exists) judging by the number of times I've had to sit behind people with all their brake lights on.

I find it more irritating at night in the rain.

As already mentioned, people using rear fog lights at night in the rain when it's not foggy really gets my goat!

Still, mustn't grumble eh...

When I was awarded my Driving Licence in October, 1966 it was a requirement that, at traffic lights, the driver had to apply the hand-brake and put the gearbox in neutral. Naturally, the driver took his foot off the brake.
The only difference now is that holding the car on the foot-brake is illegal, so nothing's changed fundamentally.

What is a rear fog light?

I can imagine the nuisance of applying the parking brake at a stop in my Dodge Ram. Leaning down trying to find the under dash release in the dark.....not gonna happen.

I have some Wal-Mart Burners on my 2005 Silverwing using Dennis B's mount which is simple and in a good location on the bike. And yes, I have had many people say "yes" I can see you coming! I have the T-Box with the built in wrap around brake lights as well and people like that for visibility as well. I do ride at night and we do have deer. These lights come with 50 and I switched them to 75 so they do well in fogg or just plain darkness.

One thing every rider needs to do and that is to follow vehicles in a proper manner. Here in the U.S. when you follow you should be behind the "driver" side of the vehicle in front of you. This way on coming traffic can see you and not turn in front of you. This has caused many people to get in trouble.

Myself, I want my Silverwing lit up so I can see and be seen.

You watch most of the M/C headlights are very dim and hard to see when they are coming toward you. Therefore, I recommend extra lights front and rear. Even the Helmet lights are an excellent idea.

For what little it costs put the extra lights on. . .I,m not saying they are 100 per cent "fool" proof because people only care about themselves these days for the most part and would just as soon run over you it they could as to acknowledge your presence.

hotwings wrote:

What is a rear fog light?

I can imagine the nuisance of applying the parking brake at a stop in my Dodge Ram. Leaning down trying to find the under dash release in the dark.....not gonna happen.

Rear fog lights are just another pair of red lights (or sometimes a single one) that are brighter than the normal rear lights. They do help you to be seen from further back when it's foggy but they are a bloody nuisance when soppy duffers insist on putting them on just 'cos it's raining since they can dazzle you constantly. Also, depending on where they are situated, they can make the brake lights less obvious.

Know what you mean about awkward handbrakes. I had a Toyota Hiace Camper once with a gooseneck handbrake. You had to pull it about two feet towards you to get it on and then twist the whole neck sideways to get it off again. All a bit of a faff so I rarely used it!

If you want to make your S/W more visible from the rear a fairly easy modification is to change the rear turn signal sockets to double filament sockets and two filament bulbs. It really lights up the S/W up from the rear. Although the only bulbs I could find are not a true red they are even more visible. Howard

Slightly off topic, but I see some newer vehicles with the turn signal in the centre of a circular brake light. If the turn signal is on, and the brake light comes on , the turn signal seems to disappear, as if it was turned off. Some of the newer VW cars are like that, and also some buses. Can be quite confusing.
Also, why do some 4x4's have brake lights high up on the back, and the turn signal low down on the rear bumper/fender??

Here in the States you need to have the rear lights up as high mounted as you can so if a truck or something is following you, they can see you when you put on the brakes.

A good compromise for me was the Admore Light Bar mounted under the Givi topbox rack.
Friends dazzled by Givi topbox lights found the light bar obvious but far less intrusive or irritating.

On the subject of rear fog lights: inevitably, many people forget to turn them off so that they are alight next time the car is used.
My L200 truck had one which came on only if the headlights were on and automatically turned off with the headlights, meaning I had to turn on the fog light again when needed.
Very handy.

With the advancement in technology I believe some of the lighting systems are way over due for advancement. Especially from the front you can not see the turn signals of most vehicles if you are at a angle. The turn signals need to be placed in a strip above the windshield (Led's) and be split in the middle and operate sequentially. Turn signals could also operate in the same manor in the rear. Light intensity could be regulated,some brake lights and turn signals are way to bright at night. Some almost blind you if you are stopped behind a vehicle. Howard