Tire failure

I was on a ride a couple of days ago and had a rear tire separate from the rim. Was on an interstate hwy speed limit 80 mph. We rode for 26 miles at that speed. When I got to the off ramp and exited, the rear tire immediately came off the rim to the inside when I slowed down to about 15 to 20 mph. I managed to get it shut down without any trouble but was in the middle of no where when this happened. Has anyone had this experience? I have a 2005 and have ridden it about 54000 smiles. It was a little spooky to think of what I would have experienced had it happened when we were doing 80 mph. I do know of a lot of people on this forum that ride on Hi Speed roads all of the time and do not here of this happening. Any input?

By the way, in the above I did not have any nails etc in the tire and it had the proper inflation when we left on the ride. 35 lbs.

DaveR wrote:

... snipped ... I was on a ride a couple of days ago and had a rear tire separate from the rim.  Was on an interstate hwy speed limit 80 mph.  We rode for 26 miles at that speed.  When I got to the off ramp and exited, the rear tire immediately came off the rim to the inside when I slowed down to about 15  to 20 mph.  I managed to get it shut down without any trouble but was in the middle of no where when this happened.  Has anyone had this experience?  

In fall 2014 we attended the Huzzah Valley Rally organized by Maggie (St. Louis Riding Club).  I was riding in second position with the fast pack and we were attacking the twisties pretty hard ... doing anywhere from 60 - 85 mph.  After about an hour of spirited riding, something didn't feel right and I was having trouble holding my line in the turns so at the next straightaway, I backed off the speed and waved the other riders around me me.  

I slowed down to about 45 mph but the shaking/wobbliness got progressively worse.  I finally pulled off to the side to look at my rear tire (that's where I felt the instability).  The tire looked pretty cockeyed on the rim and I immediately recognized the belts had shifted in the tire.  However, it still held air and being 70 miles away from base camp and like you, stuck in the middle of nowhere, I decided to turn around and ride on slowly (averaging about 25 mph) to see if I could make it back to camp.

I made about 35 miles and then the tire finally separated from the rim (went flat).  I fully expected something to happen and at that slow a speed, it was pretty docile.  I eventually made it back to base camp with assistance from other Rally riders who came to my rescue.  Luckily for me, I brought spare tires in case something like this should happen.  Overall, I missed about a full day of riding but the time we had, was still well worth it.  

As a side note, the next day my sweetie's Burgman 400 developed a flat rear tire while she was sweeping a gentle blind curve doing about 75 mph.  Luckily she was able to bring her ride to a safe stop at the side of the road.  Her rear tire had literally wore out ... you could see the exposed cotton? cord showing down the middle of the tire.  I had checked her tires about an hour earlier at lunch and they had the correct pressure and showed normal wear ... there was no indication of this happening.  

Around the campfire we attributed the rapid deterioration to simple wear.  As we learned from the local riders, the sharp edged granite based asphalt roads in AR and MO where we were riding for the previous 10 days are much harder on tires than the glacial deposited small round stone based asphalt we ride on here in Canada.  

Our lesson learned ... always put fresh rubber on our scoots when we head down to ride with our friends in the Appalachians!  

Her rear tire had literally wore out ... you could see the exposed cotton? cord showing down the middle of the tire. I had checked her tires about an hour earlier at lunch and they had the correct pressure and showed normal wear ... there was no indication of this happening.

<<<<>>>> many many tires have I seen do this, that last bit disappears like it was made of ice. I did a lot of dumpster diving at rallies just to take pictures of those types of tires at our meetings. For the most part believers were the people that had that happen to them. I just changed out a set on mine, fronts were just getting to the wear bars the back had maybe 40 to 50% I'll keep them for a just in case situation.

oldwingguy wrote:

... snipped ... many many tires have I seen do this, that last bit disappears like it was made of ice.  

You are so right!  We even brought a complete set of new tires with us just in case but being the final afternoon of the Rally, we thought no trouble making it to the end of the day safely.  Boy were we surprised!

My tire is a Metzler Feel Free tire which I like very much. The tire itself has about 5000 smiles on it and the tread is not down to the wear bars. I am still very much puzzled as to what happened to the tire. No sign of a foreign object just came off of the inside rim it looks like. We were not doing any excessive turns or anything and fortunately it went flat after exit of the interstate doing 80 mph. The LORD was with me!

By the way, I know there are riders in Germany that ride in the fast lane and I know the Swing is built to run up to 110 mph but the tires are matched accordingly to the machine. They would put a speed ceiling on the bike if it was not safe so what's the deal?

DaveR wrote:

My tire is a Metzler Feel Free tire which I like very much.  The tire itself has about 5000 smiles on it and the tread is not down to the wear bars.  I am still very much puzzled as to what happened to the tire. No sign of a foreign object just came off of the inside rim it looks like.  We were not doing any excessive turns or anything and fortunately it went flat after exit of the interstate doing 80 mph.  The LORD was with me!

Well, if the Lord was your pillion, you probably exceeded the rated capacity of the Metzeler tires

Explain where you are coming from when you say, "Exceeded the rated capacity of the Metzler tire."
Are you speaking of weight or speed?

DaveR wrote:

Explain where you are coming from when you say, "Exceeded the rated capacity of the Metzler tire."
Are you speaking of weight or speed?

Excuse me if I rubbed you up the wrong way, the Australian sense of humour can be a bit hard to swallow at times.  

( Just look at KurtPerthWA and PeterC 's contributions, living proof.............)

I love a sunburnt country,
A land of sweeping plains,
Of ragged mountain ranges,
Of droughts and flooding rains.
I love her far horizons,
I love her jewel-sea,
Her beauty and her terror -
The wide brown land for me!..............................................

I got a chuckle out of it

Seriously, I would like to know if there are other riders out there who have experienced tire failure. Is it because of speed vs small tires. Should not be as the Silverwing was engineered to run at all road speeds without fear of failure.

DaveR you are the first for me where a tire separated from the rim for no obvious known reason. You lost air for some reason and it separated from the rim because of it. ONE TIME on our G'Wing I had something similar but that was a sudden deflation at about 50 mph because what I thought was 40 psi in fact was over 60 psi in the tire due to a faulty gauge, a previous tire repair came loose. The off the rim part is like using the rim for a bead breaker and any shift side would cause it. It doesn't have to be violent as the bead breaker on a tire machine isn't. JMHO

Tire failure---this was not----no air for what ever reason. tire came off rim/bead.

Speed rating in printed on side of tire.

I lived/rode in Germany 20 years----never tire/air failure because of sustained speed.

Goofy valve stems can cause air loss----stock stems, should be replaced at least every other tire change....rubber seal can dry up.

Lucky you didn't go down.

Since 1990 with maxi scooters, around 400,000 miles=3 tire failures, all Bridgestone----2 on Reflex....thread came away from casing=bad manufacturing. One on Helix, Japan, after all day ride on Freeway----J rated (62mph) on bike that could exceed 70mph downhill/tailwind. Problem here Honda chose tire that bike could exceed in speed. thread flew off....casing ok, was able to stop scooter upright.

Over the years, one motorcycle tire come off rim---Guzzi V-7,, spike in tire, ended up in field as this happened in big//wide S curve.

Tires/air bear watching!

john grinsel wrote:

Goofy valve stems can cause air loss----stock stems, should be replaced at least every other tire change....rubber seal can dry up

I agree. The rear valve stem is a 90° piece. If that stem was replaced with an incorrect stem the end of the stem/cap may brush up against the brake caliper causing the stem to flex just enough to let a small amount of air to escape until the next revolution. Or, if the small support tab between the stem & rim is missing the stem will vibrate and cause the same air loss as mentioned above.

A similar "tire off the rim" was reported several years ago on the Yahoo Silverwing forum. The cause turned out to be that an incorrect right angle valve stem was installed by the Honda dealer resulting in scenario #1, above --dealer supplied tire, dealer supplied valve stem.

Tim

When I replaced my rear tire, I also replaced the valve stem. The stem was slightly longer than the OEM stem. Went to work and when leaving work, my rear tire was flat. I thought that someone had loosen the valve. I tightened the valve and aired it up to 30 lbs. Within two miles the tire went completely flat. Had my Swing towed home and when investigating my problem, I saw that the valve stem cap was damaged. It was hitting the final drive housing and I guess that constant hitting, the valve loosened and let air out. Installed a 90 degree stem and all was good. It was a little scary when the tire went suddenly flat because I was accelerating on an on-ramp.

I've had a valve fail where it goes through the rim.
I don't know how many miles I rode with a 'flat' tyre but it was quite a few - it didn't come off the rim, fortunately.
The chap who sorted it all out only had a straight but stubby valve in his workshop but it did the trick and was still going when I sold the bike.

Thanks for the input everyone. My valve stem turned out to be o.k. but according to my tire man it had apparently had a fence staple in it and out of it because it had two holes as such. Ordered a new Metzler and purchased a Honda Valve stem to put in the new tire should be on the road by Wednesday. Thanks I learned something on this forum again.

Glad the mystery's solved!

three thumbs up, one for finding out one for fixing properly one for posting the answer.

That is why I like this Honda Forum. If you have any kind of problem you need help with, people are there to help you solve it. That is tremendous! Thank you all.