J. Costa Variator

First topic message reminder :

Just wondering if others have installed the J. Costa variator too. I installed mine over a year ago and it really improves the performance of the SWing. I think it is also a bit smoother and it sure does make the acceleration immediate as soon as you give it throttle. It seems to take the lag out of the bike when twisting the throttle.

I bought mine at scootertrap.com and also have a pictorial there. I will be putting them on this site too, along with others. If others have done this mod or are wanting too just chime in and tell us how you like it or if it is worth doing. I know I won't go back.



Ride safe,

JeffR



http://www.4shared.com/file/77483927/844fdf75/J_Costa_Pin_Replacement_and_Belt_Replacement_612kb.html[url][/url]

honda_silver wrote:

Bernardo wrote:

I'll be contacting the scootertrap unless I can get the pins in UK / Europe.... It's crazy that its so difficult to get them here and thus easy to buy from the USA as I did with the variator!

[url=http://www.jcostacompetition.co.uk/distributors.html

http://www.jcostacompetition.co.uk/distributors.html[/quote[/url]]

Thanks for that!

Bernardo

JeffR wrote:

Bernardo,

I would think that your pins, if worn enough, could be causing the 200rpm difference. That is what happened to me the first time I changed the pins, and I changed them at about 8,500 miles. Your belt should probably be good for about 20,000 miles really. I changed mine at 12,000, just because I was installing the J. Costa for the first time, and decided to start with the new Mitsibishi belt. I keep the old one since it looks brand new still.

When I decide to get new pins again I am going to use the dry lube on the bell housing to see if it reduces the friction and maybe allows the pins to last longer. Not sure if it will work... but what the heck. I was thinking that the worn pins increases the rpm's since they are ground down and probably weigh less. That is just my opinion but it seems to make sense.

I think I'll email the scootertrap and ask about that as having checked out the J Costa UK suppliers the price of a J Costa variator here in UK (Thanks Honda Silver!) is the same in pounds sterling as it is in US Dollars in the USA!! So I figure it will be probably be cheaper to get the pins from the Scootertrap anyway!

And I have found a great way to actually get back to my former fuel economy... Its simply this... In town and traffic don't keep twisting the throttle too far just cos it feels so good, and you go faster! You just have to brake harder and sooner at the next set of lights... Chill out.... On the open road mind, well that's Ok to just let rip if the feeling takes you, and viola! I'm back at the 50mpg mark.

I'll continue a while longer and see if the revs keep going higher...... I mean what the hell, in theory this means my S'wing will accelerate faster?

Well, bit the bullet and got the J. Costa. Took a couple of hours with Jeff's instructions laid out before me but I eventually got there. However, I was really cautious with the screws and bolts to make sure I didn't lose any. Impact wrench made removal of the variator nut a piece of cake!!

As far as the variator tool went, I didn't have any pieces of metal to make a Y shaped thingy. Wandered around and finally came across a piece of sample hardwood flooring that I picked up a few months back. I was 3 1/2" wide and close to 2' long. Drilled two holes for the bolts, and between the two bolts, I drilled a larger hole that I could use to torque the variator nut. Then I put one end of the piece of hardwood to hold it in place. It worked!! Torqued up to 76 or 78 lbs/ft - hard to tell precisely with the old pointer styled torque wrench but I checked it 3 times so it should be OK.

Got a few minutes to ride it but it wasn't too warm so it was a short ride. The takeoff was much better (lag was all but gone). It seeemed to accelerate faster everywhere (speed wise). Its still not a sportbike but it certainly makes for a marked improvement. In fact, I think it feels a little more like my old CBR600F2 in terms of acceleration now than some of my previous sub 1000cc cruisers (relatively speaking of course) but the Swing has good power everywhere so its a far more enjoyable ride than the CBR ever was.

I didn't open it full throttle really as I want to scoot around a bit first - although I haven't heard anyone say there's any kind of break-in period for the pins. Overall, it was seems to be worth the cost. I'll post more opinions once things warm up again.

Captain

Hi There Captain,

Welcome to the exciting world of J costa! By the way thanks for the tip about the variator tool... I'm thinking about replacing my drivebelt soon, and checking the pins, so that's a useful tip... I'll need to get myself a torque wrench and oder the belt...

Bernardo wrote:

JeffR wrote:

Bernardo,

I would think that your pins, if worn enough, could be causing the 200rpm difference. That is what happened to me the first time I changed the pins, and I changed them at about 8,500 miles. Your belt should probably be good for about 20,000 miles really. I changed mine at 12,000, just because I was installing the J. Costa for the first time, and decided to start with the new Mitsibishi belt. I keep the old one since it looks brand new still.

When I decide to get new pins again I am going to use the dry lube on the bell housing to see if it reduces the friction and maybe allows the pins to last longer. Not sure if it will work... but what the heck. I was thinking that the worn pins increases the rpm's since they are ground down and probably weigh less. That is just my opinion but it seems to make sense.

I think I'll email the scootertrap and ask about that as having checked out the J Costa UK suppliers the price of a J Costa variator here in UK (Thanks Honda Silver!) is the same in pounds sterling as it is in US Dollars in the USA!! So I figure it will be probably be cheaper to get the pins from the Scootertrap anyway!

And I have found a great way to actually get back to my former fuel economy... Its simply this... In town and traffic don't keep twisting the throttle too far just cos it feels so good, and you go faster! You just have to brake harder and sooner at the next set of lights... Chill out.... On the open road mind, well that's Ok to just let rip if the feeling takes you, and viola! I'm back at the 50mpg mark.

I'll continue a while longer and see if the revs keep going higher...... I mean what the hell, in theory this means my S'wing will accelerate faster?

I emailled the scooter trap and they (Matt) suggested that my belt was probably stretched and hence the higher revs. He said that the variator pins should be OK for 10-12k. I had the S'wing serviced not long ago, so I'll see how my overall fuel economy is and if it is getting worse I'll buy myself a torque wrench, and change the belt, and see what difference this makes before deciding whether or not to change the pins aswell.

Bernardo,

How many miles do you have on your pins? I ride kind of hard, and I think you do to, so we may wear them out sooner. I bought an electric impact wrench that only torque's to 90 ftlbs so I know I can't over tighten it too much at all. I do remember that my rpms' went up by about 200 rpm's and then when I changed them they went down the same amount. But hopefully you can get more miles out of your pins.

JeffR wrote:

Bernardo,

How many miles do you have on your pins? I ride kind of hard, and I think you do to, so we may wear them out sooner. I bought an electric impact wrench that only torque's to 90 ftlbs so I know I can't over tighten it too much at all. I do remember that my rpms' went up by about 200 rpm's and then when I changed them they went down the same amount. But hopefully you can get more miles out of your pins.

Hi Jeff,

Recently commuting into London (see my London commuting Adventure post) I managed a healthy 54mpg, in all sorts of traffic, including rush hour riding. So I am quite happy with that. It was a bit hair raising at times so I wasn't as hearty with the throttle..... My pins have done about 7,000 miles and the belt about 14,000. I shall just carry on as normal for now and monitor the revs......

I'm not sure why for a while my mpg was lower than usual.... Although I have altered my laminar lip which is now a bit lower on the screen, and I have not been as heavy handed throttle wise in urban traffic, though on the open road I still let rip at times... I reckon it's the slow stop start commuter crawl / too much low speed throttle happiness that really hits the economy.

Hi Bernardo,

I sure envy you getting that good of mileage. After reading about your and Bill's (Honda-Silver) mileage I know I have to get a Power Commander. If I'm conservative, doing mainly 55 mph or so I can get 51 mpg but if I really give it heck it is in the low 40's.

As a matter of fact, I just filled up today after doing all interstate at 85-95 mph, and I only avg'd 39 mpg, which is kind of good I guess. But I was giving it WOT all the time but never going over 95 indicated. I just felt like having some fun for a tank. I also just commented on your London story, and it was a great story. Thanks.

Ordered mine today, can't wait till it gets here. Kinda bummed out about the whole having to replace the pins all the time though...I sure hope it is worth that extra hassle.

som2002 wrote:

Ordered mine today, can't wait till it gets here. Kinda bummed out about the whole having to replace the pins all the time though...I sure hope it is worth that extra hassle.

Yeah there is that, but a small price to pay methinks..... Having spoken to the scooter trap, I shall not be replacing mine for a while... Have had to spend money on other stuff, including a new set of tyres for my bike.... Which highlights another advantage of the scoot, which is that even when you hustle, you still get a good life out of your tyres... Yet on my bike, although by todays bike standards it has at best modest performance, when you use it (especially now with the better summer weather) the tyres wear kinda quick....

One of life's certainties...... everything wears... sigh (including my hair which is now a nice shade of grey). I suppose the big question is how best to enjoy the wear!

Bernardo said:
even when you hustle, you still get a good life out of your tyres...

I would have to agree. I had just over 8,000 miles on my tires and I knew I was in need of a new rear tire. I had ordered the replacement (Bridgestone Hoop) and even had set up an appointment for tomorrow (Tuesday) to have the new tire mounted, but last Friday while on the way home the old tire blew out when I was cruising along the highway at about 60 mph. When it went, it sounded like a gunshot blast right in my ear - very loud. But the bike didn't feel squirrely or anything, so I wasn't exactly sure what had happened (But with a loud boom like that I knew it wasn't good), so I coasted off the road and looked things over. Sure enough I had run the tire down to cords in one place and that was where it blew. I guess the good news is that the sidewalls of a motorcycle tire are stiff enough that when they go flat the tire doesn't sit down on the rim, the sidewalls hold it up a couple of inches.

So, the new tire is on and my HyperPro springs (my father's day gift) should be here tomorrow and I will have the springs mounted when they get here.

The Scootist wrote:

Bernardo said:
even when you hustle, you still get a good life out of your tyres...

I would have to agree. I had just over 8,000 miles on my tires and I knew I was in need of a new rear tire. I had ordered the replacement (Bridgestone Hoop) and even had set up an appointment for tomorrow (Tuesday) to have the new tire mounted, but last Friday while on the way home the old tire blew out when I was cruising along the highway at about 60 mph. When it went, it sounded like a gunshot blast right in my ear - very loud. But the bike didn't feel squirrely or anything, so I wasn't exactly sure what had happened (But with a loud boom like that I knew it wasn't good), so I coasted off the road and looked things over. Sure enough I had run the tire down to cords in one place and that was where it blew. I guess the good news is that the sidewalls of a motorcycle tire are stiff enough that when they go flat the tire doesn't sit down on the rim, the sidewalls hold it up a couple of inches.

So, the new tire is on and my HyperPro springs (my father's day gift) should be here tomorrow and I will have the springs mounted when they get here.

Woah! Glad to read that you are OK and all went well despite the tyre blowing!

I've not had a tyre blow out before, but rather have had the rear tyre run flat, and come off the rim...... That was scarey.... Fortunately I was going slowly so able to stop under control, and upright!

Nice fathers day present by the way! I got a man sized space-hopper!!

Thanks Bernardo:
I'm sure that luck played a big role in my outcome. If I had been going 85 mph (like I had that very morning), or If I was in a hard sweeping corner in the twisties, or IF it had been the front tire...

But it wasn't (this time) and I know that in the future, I shouldn't try quite so hard to squeeze every mile out of my tires.

Based on your reviews, I am looking forward to the new springs. And by the way, I liked your story about taking your father for a ride. We need to savor those moments. Very cool. Take care.
David

Hi David,

I've just had to buy a set of tyres for my bike.... I had forgooten how expensive they can be! I ended up getting "Maxxis" They were significantly cheaper and from the reviews I have read are as good as the competition. I hope to get them fitted tomorrow. I think they make sccot tyres too.

It'll be interesting to read what you make of the springs! All the better with a new tyre, and better still with a michelin on the front (well at least I've found that the best set up for my S'wing)

Glad you liked my write up..... Have just had a great day out to a local biker spot, will post something about it later.

Happy riding!

Installed it and the new belt tonight and went for a ride. All I can say is HOLY SH*#! I was expecting an improvement but nowhere near this much extra performance. My helper with the install has a brand new full bagger Harley Ultra Classic and he was even impressed with how fast it is now. We were screwing around kinda racing each other and he never pulled away from me at all. I don't know if he had anymore left in it but we did it several different times and he never pulled away like he used to be able to. Of course he won't come right out and admit it if I were to ask him being a Harley owner and all....LOL. I was kinda skeptical after reading the one guys post on here about how he didn't think it was worth the money, but I don't understand how he wasn't impressed with this thing???? Either his is defective, installed wrong, or he expected crotch rocket wheelie pulling performance. It is a scooter after all but it now impresses the heck out of me. I'm still grinning ear-to-ear. Enough of me rambling. If you want a mod and you wish you had a little more of a performance style bike instead of a scooter don't hesitate to do this mod, you'll be happy. I can assure you. If you just use it to run errands in town,and as a commuter, don't bother.

I think this should be J.Costa's tag line:

"J Costa...We keep Harley humble." :Santa :

Som2002,
Well said and I agree 100%. I really enjoy the difference and was just as perplexed as you with the one person that didn't see any difference. This winter I will change out the belt and put dry lubricant on the pins just to see if they last longer. But, I would not give up the improved performance for anything. Thanks for you post.

Im getting jelous now (need upgrades) cant stand the belt slap and vibrations any longer its driving me mad

p.s Scooterist glad your ok i had a blow out once fortunatly it was after i had hit the car when the bike flipped over the top :lol!:


p.p.s i am wondering if i changed the rollers would this help with belt slap? (cheap option)

mr fish wrote:

p.p.s i am wondering if i changed the rollers would this help with belt slap? (cheap option)

With the original OEM belt, the belt slap eventually disappeared with more time and wear. If you are looking for a cheap option, I was thinking of removing the cover and adding a dry lubricant to the upper and lower portions of the belt housing to reduce the belt slap ... I never did because the belt slap disappeared.

The Mitsuboshi Kevlar Belt from www.scootertrap.com never had any belt slap but that is a more expensive and permenant solution.

I will try that thanks

Mr. Fish
Thanks. I was pleasantly surprised how stable the bike felt after it blew, but I think I may have been lucky. If I had been going fast, or if I had been laid over in a curve, or if it had been the front tire, things may have been different.

From what I hear the J Costa should take care of that belt slap issue. Plus from a performance point of view, I totally agree with som2002. I think it made a huge difference in acceleration, but that is just me. Maybe I'm just easy to please.

Yes, I forgot to mention, belt slap that I have had the entire 16,000 miles is now totally gone. I was so excited about the performance aspect that I forgot to mention that little bonus side effect in my first post. LOL

mr fish wrote:

Im getting jelous now (need upgrades) cant stand the belt slap and vibrations any longer its driving me mad

p.s Scooterist glad your ok i had a blow out once fortunatly it was after i had hit the car when the bike flipped over the top :lol!:


p.p.s i am wondering if i changed the rollers would this help with belt slap? (cheap option)

Bite the bullet and get a J costa fitted....It feels very different. The drivetrain is smoother, no belt slap, better acceleration, and its a bit noisier but in a good way, more of a sporty buzz to it than the quieter stock variator.....

As to the rollers I was gonna say ask Jeff, however he never had belt slap even with the stock variator and weights...

There is another homemade and cheaper option....
Take the stock weights and drill them out thus making them lighter.... That should improve you performance, although the economy may drop a tad. I don't think this will improve the belt slap though.... However I do know just how annoying it can be, it sure got to me until I had the J costa fitted...

I meant to ask, how did the spill with the car go.... I take it this was a while ago, and clearly you lived to tell the tale.... Have been there myself a quite a few times though mostly as a teenager, and never over the top of a car! Hope it wasn't too painful!

I feel i need to sweet talk the wife again for the j costa, as for the accident internal bruising hurt like hell but did it all again a week later on the insurance companys bike wrote that off as well they thought i had broken my neck with that one ,9 hours on a spine board about 15 xrays just to find out im a proffesional bouncer lol (witnesses said the the hight and flip was amazing and said i should take up gymnastics)so i learnt my lesson and bought a 1200 bandit had it tuned to about 140bhp then realised i have a family so sold that bought a gilera 180sp, and guess what......... wrote that off in the side of a van ( signaled left but turned right) and they say bikes are dangerous yet i never seem to hit another bike its vans and cars that hurt, touch wood since then ive been learning how to ride to my ability and bikes ability

Hi,

I never had the belt slap with my SWing but it was brand new when I bought it and installed the J. Costa at about 4,000-5,000 miles, so maybe it just didn't slap. I have the sliders in now and I still don't get any belt slap, but I have the Mitsubishi belt now, so maybe that helps.

I'm going to keep the sliders in for the rest of the year and maybe buy some new pins then and re-install the Costa. I just like to play with things. But the J. Costa is really a huge improvement and I do kind of miss the power and acceleration of it. The sliders seem to do good but you can really feel the power in the entire power band with the Costa.

[quote="Bernardo"][quote="mr fish"]Im getting jelous now (need upgrades) cant stand the belt slap and vibrations any longer its driving me mad

John, there are a couple of things that have reduced belt slap for me. First - a couple of years ago on the yahoo forum, Whit mentioned that he sprayed some belt dressing on the dive belt and it made everything run smoother and quieter. I tried it, and got the same results. Just remove the CVT cover and spray some belt dressing on the inside of the belt while you are gently giving it some throttle. After I did this, acceleration was much smoother and much quieter. However, the result was fairly short lived and the noise and shudder during acceleration returned after a couple thousand miles.

I also noticed that doing the brake torque to eliminate clutch squeal also reduced overall CVT noise. I'm not exactly sure why this happens, since the brake torque technique is designed to remove glaze from the clutch shoes, but it does seem to help with belt noise, slap, and vibration as well.

I have since noticed that I can accomplish the same effect by simply doing a series of WOT starts in quick succession. Simply find an empty parking lot or road. Stop, do a wide open throttle start, stop as soon as you get up to 25 mph, do another WOT start and repeat this about 5 or 6 times. This helps to reduce CVT noise. It doesn't completely eliminate belt slap, but it does seem to reduce it and also result in a smoother acceleration. When the CVT noise returns.....which it will, I simply repeat the WOT starts again.

mr fish wrote:

I feel i need to sweet talk the wife again for the j costa, as for the accident internal bruising hurt like hell but did it all again a week later on the insurance companys bike wrote that off as well they thought i had broken my neck with that one ,9 hours on a spine board about 15 xrays just to find out im a proffesional bouncer lol (witnesses said the the hight and flip was amazing and said i should take up gymnastics)so i learnt my lesson and bought a 1200 bandit had it tuned to about 140bhp then realised i have a family so sold that bought a gilera 180sp, and guess what......... wrote that off in the side of a van ( signaled left but turned right) and they say bikes are dangerous yet i never seem to hit another bike its vans and cars that hurt, touch wood since then ive been learning how to ride to my ability and bikes ability

Aha! That need for speed demon...... ! At least you are still here to tell the tale and are happy with the S'wing... (and honest!) The speed demon thing was one of the reasons that when I bought my bike recently, that I went for the Divvy 900..... In default mode one tends to just pootle along rather than giving it some.... And although by bike standards its slow, its plenty fast enough in the real world, and good torque.... Problem is there is always something better.... sigh! In some ways perhaps its a good thing that it can be expensive to keep on buying stuff for ones bike / scoot..... It keeps you grounded and in the real world!

And then again Woah....! You tuned a bandit to 140 bhp? That's on a par with a fazer 1000 Please do tell how!!