What moron designed that radiator filler???

I decided to do a coolant swap today, and drained the system using the oil cooler fitting. That part was easy, but the refill was a nightmare!

Firstly that filler cap is in the most useless position with the fairings on; no problem when the bodywork is off, but I could only fit a little funnel on and then was unable to get a clean pour from any larger container. I ended up using a 750mL water bottle with sipping nipple, which at least gave me control over the addition.

However, everything was "full" with only 750mL on board, even though nearly 2L came out. I ended up running the engine for maybe 15 minutes waiting for the rest of the air to burp out. In the meantime the coolant expanded and overflowed on the floor, the engine got pretty hot and the fast idle system kept running at a "cold" setting. All this time the coolant in the neck stayed cold, until finally there was a little vapour rising, then with a gurgle I think the thermostat opened and the level dropped and I was able to get the rest of the liquid in.

Moral of the story....actually I don't know what I would do differently next time. I've never seen anything quite like this with any of my "big" bikes. Any suggestions from the more seasoned Silverwing maintainers here? I don't think this had anything to do with my Southern Hemisphere orientation as I bough an Australian-branded coolant...

I've only done a Silverwing coolant change twice but I use Castrol ready mixed motorcycle coolant. It comes in 1L bottles with an extended 'snout' which makes filling easy. Doing a quick conversation from £ it's about 11 $aus.

I can't remember much about when I changed the coolant, I bought a couple of bottles of the Honda coolant when I was riding past the local Honda car dealers  the previous week. That's because I like to take a long run up to any maintenance job before I get round to doing it.

I had my Silver Wing FSM for handy reference, had no trouble draining the old stuff and filling with new. Then I used an old turkey blaster to add or remove coolant from the reserve tank to get the level exactly right. 

The only hassle was having to bottle up the old coolant back into the Honda containers to take to a recycling centre for proper disposal.

Hi bud, I'm gonna guess that you tried filling the system from the expansion bottle ?
If so, wrong, the top of the expansion bottle IS NOT the highest point in the system (hence your problems)  There is a remote radiator cap hiding above & to the left of the bottle, this IS where you should refill from, it is accessed by undoing the single fixing bolt & pulling it to the glove box opening.

"Firstly that filler cap is in the most useless position with the fairings on; no problem when the bodywork is off,"

The filler cap is designed to be accessed by removing the right glove box. Pinch in on both sides and pull it out (there is sometimes a screw in the front that is hard to see). Voila. There is the cap. I use a long funnel and pour slowly.

For what it's worth, I have owned four Silver Wings and never gotten close to pouring 2.2 liters into the radiator. It's always full before that.

I have on all my bikes used a 250ml Syringe for Oil & for Coolant with a plastic tube atatched to it, no mess and easy to locate into hard to get places.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/i/283831768573?chn=ps&var=585263189551&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=710-134428-41853-0&mkcid=2&itemid=585263189551_283831768573&targetid=878161781224&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=1007014&campaignid=9437867654&mkgroupid=94751713814&rlsatarget=pla-878161781224&abcId=1139366&merchantid=116486493&gclid=CjwKCAjwqdn1BRBREiwAEbZcR_gup6UqpRs7g4P4h8wUP4XZnhxzKQRbctWJt8ND7Kax7tBLlSyxlRoC1aUQAvD_BwE

There you go bud  ^^^^ in Delray's picture, first is the expansion bottle, second are the expansion bottle marks & third is the filler neck/remote radiator cap.

Initially fill at the remote cap, replace cap & fill expansion bottle to lower mark, run engine & when cooled down 'top-up' expansion bottle to upper mark.
N.B. The expansion bottle marks can be seen by looking upwards from the mudguard with the aid of a torch.

I agree with the OP's topic line ... not the most convenient design.  I was lucky as I had my full fairing off to repair tabs and do maintenance recently.  Here's the pic if somebody wants to use it as reference.



I hope this helps.

GoonerKev wrote:

I have on all my bikes used a 250ml Syringe for Oil & for Coolant with a plastic tube atatched to it, no mess and easy to locate into hard to get places.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/i/283831768573?chn=ps&var=585263189551&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=710-134428-41853-0&mkcid=2&itemid=585263189551_283831768573&targetid=878161781224&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=1007014&campaignid=9437867654&mkgroupid=94751713814&rlsatarget=pla-878161781224&abcId=1139366&merchantid=116486493&gclid=CjwKCAjwqdn1BRBREiwAEbZcR_gup6UqpRs7g4P4h8wUP4XZnhxzKQRbctWJt8ND7Kax7tBLlSyxlRoC1aUQAvD_BwE

I have a selection of different sized syringes that I use for all sorts of maintenance jobs, with or without a length of plastic tubing attatched. For example when changing brake fluid it's far simpler to first remove most of the old fluid out of the reservoir with a syringe. It's less old fluid to flush out at the brake nipple.

[quote="Meldrew"][quote="GoonerKev"]I have on all my bikes used a 250ml Syringe for Oil & for Coolant with a plastic tube atatched to it, no mess and easy to locate into hard to get places.

Exactly Meldrew, simple and quick, with no spills

Maybe you should save all the grief of changing the coolant and take it to your Honda dealership for serve. This maybe beyond your skill level. You could also have a friend assist you.

Thanks for those that offered the useful tips but no thanks for the back-handed criticisms of my skill level. I do know the difference between a coolant reservoir and a radiator filler cap and how to remove the right glovebox to gain access, but thanks for the assumption that I wouldn't.

I do have the service manual and would regard myself as pretty experienced having worked on my own bikes for more than 30 years, up to and including engine swaps, carb cleaning, cam belt replacements, valve adjustments and full suspension rebuilds. This was the first time that I've had such a lousy time doing something as simple as refilling the cooling system.

I changed the oil on my SW two days ago. Managed to drop a socket into the oil catch basin, along with the filter screen and o-ring which slopped a bit of oil down on the feet of the center stand. That made the feet of the stand slip on the deck of my bike lift which made it necessary to slide the bike back a bit on the lift, put a loop of rope around the legs of the stand an clamp the loose ends of the rope to the rear edge of the lift so I could push the bike forward a couple inches and retract the center stand.

I've been working on bikes, cars, boats and airplanes for well over fifty years. My point is that every one can have a crappy day now and then but it doesn't reflect on anyone's ability or intelligence. Just bad juju.

It's hardly something to get wound up about is it. Changing a headlight or pilot light bulb for the first time is a pain in the ass too, if the rubber covers haven't been removed before they're hard to get off. Pilot bulbs can and will annoyingly drop into  the headlight reflector shell and it needs patience, dexterity, and a flexible grabbing tool to get the bulbs back out.

But once you're done that, lubed all the rubber parts, assembled it all back together, the next time you have to mess around in there, it's much easy because you've learned a lot.

Brake bleeding is the same, for most it's pretty straightforward as long as you do it in the right sequence, but there's posts on here where owners have found it totally frustrating with spongey brakes whatever they do. But they get there in the end with or without advice from here.

I'd have thought during these long weeks of lockdown, closed businesses, and social distancing, members would be more concerned about more pressing matters. Like when and where they're getting their next haircut.

Meldrew wrote
I'd have thought during these long weeks of lockdown, closed businesses, and social distancing, members would be more concerned about more pressing matters. Like when and where they're getting their next haircut

Were all going to look like Hippies

"Thanks for those that offered the useful tips but no thanks for the back-handed criticisms of my skill level."

Several people here reacted the same way; all of them are expert, altruistic and generous with suggestions and insights. Perhaps the source of "back handed criticisms" relates more to your writing (see original post) and less to the consistent replies you received?

GoonerKev wrote:

Meldrew wrote
I'd have thought during these long weeks of lockdown, closed businesses, and social distancing, members would be more concerned about more pressing matters. Like when and where they're getting their next haircut

Were all going to look like Hippies

Too late, I'm looking like a grey Grizzly Adams

Marvincon wrote:

GoonerKev wrote:

Meldrew wrote
I'd have thought during these long weeks of lockdown, closed businesses, and social distancing, members would be more concerned about more pressing matters. Like when and where they're getting their next haircut

Were all going to look like Hippies

Too late, I'm looking like a grey Grizzly Adams

Sussed it, I got Mrs.Bern to give my head a going over with my beard trimmer set on it's longest guide position

Terry Smith wrote:

/.snipped./ I do know the difference between a coolant reservoir and a radiator filler cap /.snipped./ but thanks for the assumption that I wouldn't.

I do have the service manual and would regard myself as pretty experienced having worked on my own bikes for more than 30 years  /.snipped./

My apologies, had you mentioned in your original post that you had the service manual my responses would have been worded slightly differently.
Given that you have the manual & with your self proclaimed prowess as a mechanic, I honestly fail to understand why you had such a problem performing a relatively simple task, perhaps a fuller description of how you attempted the task might have helped those that tried to help you bud.

I was recommended on a Messenger chat to get a set of Remington Quick Cut Clippers as apparently they're the dogs dogs bollocks for a DIY haircut. I'd also heard Argos have sold loads of them in the last few weeks.

So I bought a set, watched a few YouTube videos and had a go like The Bern (Hi bud! ) with the longest length guide on. I couldn't believe how easy it was.

My barber says I'm not to touch clippers to my head! I'm going "man bun." Paul

Meldrew wrote:

I was recommended on a Messenger chat to get a set of Remington Quick Cut Clippers as apparently they're the dogs dogs bollocks for a DIY haircut. I'd also heard Argos have sold loads of them in the last few weeks.

So I bought a set, watched a few YouTube videos and had a go like The Bern (Hi bud! ) with the longest length guide on. I couldn't believe how easy it was.

Hi bud  Mine is also Remington, can't remember the model, but work cordless or corded, cordless is handy for cutting hair as at this time of year I do it outdoors, the following day all hair is gone, taken by small 'song birds' to line their nests

I'm glad we've moved on to haircuts. I'm feeling better for venting (and bourbon). My wife cut my hair using my dog's clippers, looks much better and I can now also scratch behind my ear with my foot. I'm not allowed on the furniture though...

The Bern wrote:

Mine is also Remington, can't remember the model, but work cordless or corded, cordless is handy for cutting hair as at this time of year I do it outdoors,  the following day all hair is gone, taken by small 'song birds' to line their nests

There's an strange phenomenon going on here bud, it was old Brubaker who bought a set of Remington clippers first, he posted something on that maxi-scoots forum about giving himself a haircut outside and the hair clippings vanishing.

I also took advantage of a nice day to sit outside in the sun and cut my hair in cordless mode. Afterwards there was plenty of shorn off hair on my newly pressure washed flagstones, Then I went back in to show Mrs M my efforts and had a cup of coffee.

When I went back outside to clear up, all my hair clipping had disappeared and I just thought a breeze had blown them away towards our garden fence. Later on I couldn't find hair clippings anywhere, so maybe birds had collected them.

This is now sounding as crazy as the lockdown stories in our local paper about some bloke finding a 6 inch oven chip in the packet when he was making his tea, complete with photo. Then the next day there was another report of someone finding an even bigger one and photographing it next to a banana for scale. That went on for the best part of a week.  

Terry Smith wrote:

I'm glad we've moved on to haircuts. I'm feeling better for venting (and bourbon). My wife cut my hair using my dog's clippers, looks much better and I can now also scratch behind my ear with my foot. I'm not allowed on the furniture though...

No problem here, my wife used to cut my hair when we lived in the Inuit village of Kotzebue where the nearest barber shop was 200 miles South with no road. she got pretty good at it too. All we had to do was to pull out our barber kit, oil the clipper and go to work.

Meldrew wrote:

The Bern wrote:

Mine is also Remington, can't remember the model, but work cordless or corded, cordless is handy for cutting hair as at this time of year I do it outdoors,  the following day all hair is gone, taken by small 'song birds' to line their nests

There's an strange phenomenon going on here bud, it was old Brubaker who bought a set of Remington clippers first, he posted something on that maxi-scoots forum about giving himself a haircut outside and the hair clippings vanishing.

I also took advantage of a nice day to sit outside in the sun and cut my hair in cordless mode. Afterwards there was plenty of shorn off hair on my newly pressure washed flagstones, Then I went back in to show Mrs M my efforts and had a cup of coffee.

When I went back outside to clear up, all my hair clipping had disappeared and I just thought a breeze had blown them away towards our garden fence. Later on I couldn't find hair clippings anywhere, so maybe birds had collected them.

This is now sounding as crazy as the lockdown stories in our local paper about some bloke finding a 6 inch oven chip in the packet when he was making his tea, complete with photo. Then the next day there was another report of someone finding an even bigger one and photographing it next to a banana for scale. That went on for the best part of a week.  

Morning bud

It's deffo the birds, I've got well established hedges running up both sides of the garden, late summer if you pull back the leaves you can see the nests
Can you remember back in the 60's there was an unofficial record for the highest number of 'little blue bags' of salt in a single packet of Smiths crisps, we need more of that silliness these days I reckon

Terry, don't beat yourself up about the coolant refill. I drained and refilled the cooling system 'by the book' and the bike ran fine for months...until.....one extremely hot day in Southend amongst crawling traffic, I looked down to find the temperature gauge at max with the red light on and a pool of hot water under the bike!

Mobile mechanic turned up (motorcycle mechanic as it happened) and added the missing water to the system via the expansion bottle, about half a pint took it back to normal level. We ran the bike and all seemed well so off we went. Bike's been fine since then.

Problem? an air lock probably. How could I have known? Maybe it;s a quirk of the older SWings.

The Bern wrote:
It's deffo the birds, I've got well established hedges running up both sides of the garden, late summer if you pull back the leaves you can see the nests I love you
Can you remember back in the 60's there was an unofficial record for the highest number of 'little blue bags' of salt in a single packet of Smiths crisps, we need more of that silliness these days I reckon

Oh I remember that well and the salt always seemed "Damp"

Loosemarbles wrote:

Terry, don't beat yourself up about the coolant refill. I drained and refilled the cooling system 'by the book' and the bike ran fine for months...until.....one extremely hot day in Southend amongst crawling traffic, I looked down to find the temperature gauge at max with the red light on and a pool of hot water under the bike!

Mobile mechanic turned up (motorcycle mechanic as it happened) and added the missing water to the system via the expansion bottle, about half a pint took it back to normal level. We ran the bike and all seemed well so off we went. Bike's been fine since then.

Problem? an air lock probably. How could I have known? Maybe it;s a quirk of the older SWings.

Thanks Loosemarbles. I've refilled the radiators on lots of different bikes over the years, and always follow the same procedure: fill through the radiator cap neck, leave a bit of ullage, start the engine and observe the level and refill as needed to keep it near full. Blip then engine and make sure the level doesn't change, then fit the cap and top off the reservoir. Cycle the engine up to fan temperature and allow to cool then recheck the levels.

This was the first instance where I've seen such a monster airlock that was so reluctant to shift, and I can only assume either I got unlucky or the Silverwing is just prone to airlocks due to the orientation of the hoses. I did try bouncing and wriggling the bike (like burping the baby) but that didn't help. I figured there was some other technique that helpful Swingers might share with me.

As my bike is new to me but has been used and abused by others, it is possible there is a blockage somewhere, although the cooling/thermostat/fan/fast idle system appears to work normally in all other aspects.

Loosemarbles wrote:

Terry, don't beat yourself up about the coolant refill. I drained and refilled the cooling system 'by the book' and the bike ran fine for months...until.....one extremely hot day in Southend amongst crawling traffic, I looked down to find the temperature gauge at max with the red light on and a pool of hot water under the bike!

Mobile mechanic turned up (motorcycle mechanic as it happened) and added the missing water to the system via the expansion bottle, about half a pint took it back to normal level. We ran the bike and all seemed well so off we went. Bike's been fine since then.

Problem? an air lock probably. How could I have known? Maybe it;s a quirk of the older SWings.

Thanks Loosemarbles. I've refilled the radiators on lots of different bikes over the years, and always follow the same procedure: fill through the radiator cap neck, leave a bit of ullage, start the engine and observe the level and refill as needed to keep it near full. Blip then engine and make sure the level doesn't change, then fit the cap and top off the reservoir. Cycle the engine up to fan temperature and allow to cool then recheck the levels.

This was the first instance where I've seen such a monster airlock that was so reluctant to shift, and I can only assume either I got unlucky or the Silverwing is just prone to airlocks due to the orientation of the hoses. I did try bouncing and wriggling the bike (like burping the baby) but that didn't help. I figured there was some other technique that helpful Swingers might share with me.

As my bike is new to me but has been used and abused by others, it is possible there is a blockage somewhere, although the cooling/thermostat/fan/fast idle system appears to work normally in all other aspects.

You are not alone with coolant refill problems. Air bound- lock whatever every time I changed coolant it was a issue. I top it and tighten Rad. cap run it 2-3 minutes refill. 3-4 times till most of coolant is back in. Watch temp. gauge don't let it get to hot if at 4 bars shut it down and wait a bit very slowly loosen cap and repeat. Once you get it mostly full then do your normal procedure till the fan is on.

Replaced water pump and took 30 minutes or so to get to bleed out. With cap on it seemed to push coolant into system better. Patience no hot coolant burns please.

Mech 1 twa wrote:

You are not alone with coolant refill problems.  Air bound- lock whatever every time I changed coolant  it was a issue. I top it and tighten Rad. cap run it 2-3 minutes refill.  3-4 times till most of coolant is back in.  Watch temp. gauge don't let it get to hot if at 4 bars shut it down and wait a bit very slowly loosen cap and repeat.    Once you get it mostly full  then do your normal procedure till the fan is on.  

Replaced water pump and took 30 minutes or so to get to bleed out.  With cap on it seemed to push coolant into system better.   Patience  no hot coolant burns please.

Could be that the thermostat is not correctly oriented for air bleeding?

Could be or a little bit of crud is blocking it. Honda has used this type of bleed hole forever and it mostly works fine. Older T-stats tend to be lazy from use and may take longer to open. Who knows.

Terry Smith wrote:

Mech 1 twa wrote:

You are not alone with coolant refill problems.  Air bound- lock whatever every time I changed coolant  it was a issue. I top it and tighten Rad. cap run it 2-3 minutes refill.  3-4 times till most of coolant is back in.  Watch temp. gauge don't let it get to hot if at 4 bars shut it down and wait a bit very slowly loosen cap and repeat.    Once you get it mostly full  then do your normal procedure till the fan is on.  

Replaced water pump and took 30 minutes or so to get to bleed out.  With cap on it seemed to push coolant into system better.   Patience  no hot coolant burns please.

Could be that the thermostat is not correctly oriented for air bleeding?

Sounds.like you thermostat may be getting stuck and the coolant is backing out of the filler neck as it heats up. You mention that the bike may have abused by the previous owner. Maybe this service was neglected. Something to keep in mind.

Ive changed radiator fluid about 4 times in SW and never had the problem. I do agree after filling up, run for until hot and keep the overflow bottle filled.

Murf wrote:

Ive changed radiator fluid about 4 times in SW and never had the problem.  I do agree after filling up, run for until hot and keep the overflow bottle filled.

Then something is changing if this is the first time and it never happened before. Keep an eye on the temp while riding and check the coolant level in the recovery bottle as a pre-ride check. Good luck.

We'll all need haircuts again the way this topic is dragging on.

Meldrew wrote:

We'll all need haircuts again the way this topic is dragging on.

Hair salons re-open sometime this week in Idaho, USA. Yea!!!!

Unless you frequent a unisex hair salon, over here the traditional old style mens hairdresser or barbers have now more or less disappeared. Now we have young Turkish guys doing men’s haircuts and very skilled they are too. You get a decent haircut and they'll trim your moustache or beard, and do this weird technique with a burning alcohol soaked swab to burn away sprouting ear hair. 

I like going to my local guy, but now I have these new Remington bad boy clippers, I'm wondering if I now need to go there every few weeks for my Pensioners Special.

Meldrew wrote:

Unless you frequent a unisex hair salon, over here the traditional old style mens hairdresser or barbers have now more or less disappeared. Now we have young Turkish guys doing men’s haircuts and very skilled they are too. You get a decent haircut and they'll trim your moustache or beard, and do this weird technique with a burning alcohol soaked swab to burn away sprouting ear hair. 

I like going to my local guy, but now I have these new Remington bad boy clippers, I'm wondering if I now need to go there every few weeks for my Pensioners Special.

Still go there as it gets you out, keeps them in a job and enjoy the chat.

You get a decent haircut and they'll trim your moustache or beard, and do this weird technique with a burning alcohol soaked swab to burn away sprouting ear hair.

So it's come down to ear hair then. Lets move on to nose hair.

Nose hair, there's all sorts of weird battery operated trimmers to do that. You generally have to be careful trimming excess nose hair as acts as a filter to trap dust. A gentle poke around to trim the excess hair that looks as if there's a birds nest coming out your nostrils is usual sufficient.

A few minutes works with a small 'mouse' type electric sander is also an excellent and painless way of removing all that excess and unsightly dried skin on your heels. It leaves them smooth and if you moisturise them afterwards you’re less likely to suffer from painful heel cracks. For the cross dressers on the forum, your nylon stockings will now just glide on without snagging.

That's started my day with a laugh

Meldrew wrote:

For the cross dressers on the forum, your nylon stockings will now just glide on without snagging.

NYLON BLOODY NYLON .......... I'll have you know we have style & panash on here bud, silky smooth skin should only ever be covered with silk

The Bern wrote:

Meldrew wrote:

 For the cross dressers on the forum, your nylon stockings will now just glide on without snagging.

NYLON  BLOODY NYLON    .......... I'll have you know we have style & panash on here bud, silky smooth skin should only ever be covered with silk

Well done bud, I know it wasn’t easy for you but don't you feel much better now.

OMG.... This is hilarious. How we got from morons filling radiators to nylon-stocking cross dressers is beyond me. Nose hairs indeed.

Meldrew wrote:

The Bern wrote:

Meldrew wrote:

 For the cross dressers on the forum, your nylon stockings will now just glide on without snagging.

NYLON  BLOODY NYLON    .......... I'll have you know we have style & panash on here bud, silky smooth skin should only ever be covered with silk

Well done bud, I know it wasn’t easy for you but don't you feel much better now.

It's all good bud & the suns out as well can we have a party

I can't decide whether to go out on the pushbike later,  or get the gear on and go further afield on the Forza. As we curmudgeons are not party animals by nature bud, I've hardly touched my large stock of poncey Scandinavian fruit ciders during lockdown.  Currently I'm rather more excited at the possibility of finding a M&S store that has their new £5 Cook With M&S recipe book in.

What's a pushbike?