My Sliverwing wont run

Hi

The other day I tried to start my silverwing but it Crank but would not run. I did notice that the lights on the dash came one. Then all of a sudden when out.
I removed the left hand back panel and checked all fuses which was fine I the replaced all fuses just in case that was bad. There is also a 30amp fuse ( replaced ) under the cap on the block that is connected to the large wire on the battery I believe this block is for the ignition I also check that the contacts on this was ok. At this point the small wire from the battery fell apart on the connector due to corrosion . I replaced this connector and now all the lights on the dash work, I do not get any flashing on the FI light. And i can here the fuel pump turns on. But its still cranks. I took out the spark plugs and when the scooter cranks I get a mist of fuel comes out. I then connected a wire to each spark plug and attached it to the negative of the battery i.e. ground. The crank the engine Some time I see a good spark and sometimes no spark at all. Stop and crank a few time and sometime a spark and sometime no spark. I tried a battery out of another silverwing that starts but I get the same.

I Am now at a lost what to check for next any ideas please.


Thanks

Good afternoon young man. May I suggest instead of comprehensively telling the forum about your Silver Wing problems, you might put as much effort into an introduction post liked you're asked to when you join the forum.


Admin Edit: Portions of the OP original post have been moved to the Introductions forum.

Hi, gardown,

I suggest you go to the search block (upper left of this page) and type in "Engine won't start." There is a lot of good info in that area (maintenance, tips, etc.) I think this will help a little.

I have looked though all the "Engine wont start posts" and a lot more others there is a great deal of info. I am sure its not the battery as used one from an other silverwing thats starts but wont start mine. It mite be the cam sensor but I take it out it looks like you have to move the engine as it hits the frame and wont come out. I am a total lost what to try next.

I would suggest Honda Dealer

Going against the Curmudgeon Code I went to dig my Factory Service Manual, then I remembered I sold it last year to that splendid fellow gordie over in East Yorkshire.

Hi, could be HT leads breaking down.

This is the list of things to check for "weak or no spark" in the manual:

Faulty spark plug
• Fouled spark plug
• Faulty ECM
• Broken or shorted spark plug wire
• Faulty ignition switch
• Faulty CKP sensor
• Faulty engine stop switch
• Loose or disconnected spark
plug wires

The CKP sensor is crankshaft position sensor. You have to pull the right side cover off the engine and I believe the flywheel to replace it.

you didn't mention if it had been running recently. I would suspect bad or old fuel. if you have a can of starter fluid (ether) i would give it a shot. If it wants to start then dies you know ignition is okay. Then you need to look at the ecu or injectors. At this point it is best to refer to manual or consult local Honda dealer. Put the plugs back in. You can damage ignition coils if they do not have a load.
good luck
bob

Disconnect the two big plugs at the ECM and spritz them and the ECM terminals with contact cleaner. Also do the same for the On/Off and PTS switch contacts in the right side throttle switches. You’ll have to open the switch clamshell to get to those terminals.

Further to what JamieB said, see if you can borrow your friends coil and plug wires. Substitute them for yours as one assembly. If you determine that the plug wires are faulty then do order them from Honda. They’ll be the right size and resistance. The wrong plug wires will cause you aggro down the line.

Oh, and you don’t need to dislocate the engine to get to the CKP. Search for posts here discussing replacing the Stator coil. That’ll get you 90% of the way. But as 1Wingman1 says, you’ve got to remove the flywheel to get those last few inches to the CKP. Also there is a two wire plug for the CKP just a few inches outside of the stator cover.

Ignition coil would be worth a Butcher's. While I had the right lower skirt removed recently I took off the two wires from the connectors on the coil top to give them a clean, and they needed it! Water can easily find it's way into there in heavy rain. I thought those wires were a bit flimsy considering the job they do and could be prone to breaking.

First of to all that have left comments thanks for your time it does help me to try and get to the bottom of my problem. Today I have spayed contact cleaner in the kill switch and the ECM plugs and also cleaned the connector thats connected to the rectifier as there was a small amount of corrosion in it.
What i did not do the other day was to try my battery on my mates silverwing and it fired his up fine. But what I notice is that his V and F1 light does not light up for a few seconds when turning on the bike where both of mine comes on for a few sconds not sure if this is important. the F1 does not flash but just comes on then off. As it does not fire at all and looks at the sparkplug most of the time there is no spark it does spark once in a while. So next I look at the Ignition coil.

Canadian---cold weather trick with either will tell you if firing right away---once again--see dealer before more possible expensive damage is done----old/complicated bikes can get expensive to fix.

Mr Grinsel, you mentioned a “Canadian cold weather trick”. What is it?


Actually the old Canadian cold weather trick I’m familiar with is relocating to Florida for a couple of months. 

either

the probem is no spark. I have tried easy start (either) it did not fire at all

Well mate, you were frustrated by this no start problem and tried out various things before you came on here a week ago for advice. You've now had a few suggestions from the home tinkering enthusiasts and still have no spark, no luck, and no factory service manual for reference.


The next logical step is to get Honda dealers Church Street Motorcycles in Ventnor to sort it out.

Not knowing if your SW was running, suddenly quit or would not start next day or sat for a while, kind'a makes it more difficult,  lot's of electrical failures are bad connections, so cleaning and unplugging/plugging every connector, relay contacts, checking and cleaning common ground point behind the LH passenger foot rest plate, is basic stuff, just general PSA.

As your bike cranks and you can smell fuel it tells that most systems are powered. Basic things to check with bike on centerstand and sidestand up, Tip remove fuse "A" headlight or keep charger handy. Note battery resting voltage, a few things to check, not saying you have not done some of these, but JIC. BTW the V and F1 light come on for a few seconds on my 2013 ABS.

1.  Paraphrasing the Service Manual " If the engine will not start, turn the starter motor for more than 10 seconds and check that MIL(F1 light) blinks, no lights or blinks no faults, blinks faults.... need to record times it flashes etc. etc.... need service manual. Report back !!

2.  Check for 12+volts at Black/white wire at ignition coil, both connected and disconnected from coil and check with switch on. Don't crank scooter. compare to battery voltage.

3. With Front connector B disconnected at ECM, check for continuity to ground with sidestand up at Green/White wire, pin 23 on light grey connector/non abs, pin 21 on Light green connector/abs. The sidestand provides ground reference to ECM thru a different wire than the starter relay.

 There's a few more things that can be done to bypass safety switches, etc. after we try stuff above. 

Good luck !! 

Here's a service manual link if you don't already have it:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/dcdcpxkyuauh44x/Honda%202002-2013%20Honda%20Silverwing%20Service%20Manual.pdf?dl=0

Given erratic sparks, I'd certainly suggest checking the low tension wiring for continuity or terminal corrosion, and the coils/plug leads to the same. The attached picture is a test for the coils on a ST1100, but should be a good guide for the Swing ignition as well.

Hello all,
I had this exact problem a few weeks ago, turns out that the main ground (earth) cable had come lose from the frame connection. I had enough contact to power lights, fuel pump, and starter; but, not enough to start. Was a simple repair, I hope yours is too.

Crispien, please could you point out the earth terminal which you refer to?

On checking my parts catalogue I noticed that the battery has a double earth connection for which I assume both of them go to the frame. Is this the one you mean or is it in the wiring loom somewhere?

I'm curious

I have look at he earth points today the negtive 1st goes to a point on the engine it looks very hard to get to. then from there it goes to a tag on the frame. You have to take off the back left panel also I took off the main black cover. I removed the frame earth and it look quite clean. The engine one the connectors feel ok. So next is to test the coil.

Thanks gardown. I'm hoping you find something as simple as a loose wire at the coil

In any case, I love it when this forum solves mysteries. Keep us posted

One small suggestion in regard to connections, what seem to be good clean connections may well be corrosion you can't see, better to remove check and clean. BTDT.

My earth cable was lose at the frame connection not at the coil. Sadly, instead of it being my first check of the system, it was my last, spent a whole day looking for a 2 min repair. Chasing electrical issues is the worst.

Gremlins really do exist...especially in electrickery!

OK tested the coil its not right so order a new one. But I did forget to take a photo of the wiring so now i have 2 wires one yellow the other black. On the coil it has a green pin and black. I look in the service manual and i cant see where it has the wire colours and what pins to attach to eacjh colour. I think its yellow to green pin and black to black.

Are these the ones you mean?

thanks loosemarbles for photo will have new coil by weekend

At long start I change both spark plugs and the sliver wing started 1st time. As it was both sparkpulgs and the old one had only been it for 100 approx I am not surte that was the problem but as it dry now mabye it was damp.