New SW owner

Hi guys and gals

Recently bought a 2003 ABS model with 3K miles. The last owner was a lady and bought it new. Think she was scared by it, thus the low mileage. It sat for about 2 years and now I'm looking at cleaning everything out. Starts and runs great, but mileage is only about 20 MPG. I also have a GoldWing, so I'm familiar with Honda.

I'll be scouring the tech posts for suggestions and ideas. Nice to be here.

Mike

Mike,

Welcome to the forum - enjoy.

Hello, Mike.

Hi Mike,

Welcome to the forum. Alot of great people and information here.

I want to add my howdy. I am a little partial to 03 friends. Had one, I love that color.
You will improve that mileage. You know the drill. Change plugs, air filter. If you haven't already.
Look forward to seeing your posts here.

20 mpg? Wow! You should be able to get around 50 mpg. You might want to try some SeaFoam or Stabil to clean up the fuel injection system. Have you tried draining the gas and replacing it with fresh gasoline?

I would think that the plugs and filter should both be unaffected by storage/lack of use, but gasoline forms varnish-like qualities when it gets too old.

I bought my 2003 last September with 3800 miles on it. It was used every year though, and I believe the owner's husband kept the maintenance up to date. I checked my air filter about six weeks ago, and it was fine (about 8000 miles on it at the time). Owner had not said anything about it being a replacement. At the same time, I replaced the plugs, but the originals looked good and ran fine. I kept them as backups.

Not saying that the plugs and filter may not be part of the problem, but I will say that I would tackle the fuel system first (besides, its easier to do than changing plugs and filter).

Hope you get it running right and get to enjoy the ride.

Thanks for the welcome, guys. The lady traded it to a dealer and I found it. They were having trouble starting it, so they changed the plugs and drained the gas. It ran fairly well, when I took it for a ride, so it can't be too bad. I changed the oil, using Delo 400. Was pleasantly surprised it uses the same oil filter as my Goldwing, so the filter wrench worked great. Looks like a small indication of rust in the tank, probably sat with an empty tank for those 2 years. Added a half a can of Seafoam to it and took it for a ride. Ran out of gas, after 98 miles. Still runs strong and idles great, maybe a little fast? About 1100-1200 RPM. I don't see any evidence of a fuel filter, so I'll be looking for that, too. Today, I'm going to flush the cooling system, and find and check, the air filter.

Thanks again, guys.

Mike... do you live with "dirt daubers"? They can stop up all kinds of little vents and openings. I agree with everything said about the air filter not being affected with sitting up. It is a little bit of a bugger to get off, but even with only 3,000 miles it may need looked at. If it is running strong and idles great... have you checked for fuel leak? The only time I changed my air filter ( I installed a K&N replacement), the filter did not "look" bad, but my mileage increased from mid 30s to 50 MPG. I did change the plugs at the same time and your dealer has already done that for you.
Jeff has a great pictorial at https://www.silverwing600.com/download.forum?id=33

Good luck.

mikef wrote:

Recently bought a 2003 ABS model with 3K miles.

Welcome to the friendliest SilverWing forum and SWing world.

mikef wrote:

It sat for about 2 years and now I'm looking at cleaning everything out. Starts and runs great, but mileage is only about 20 MPG.

If draining the existing gas and using Seafoam (as already suggested) does not work. There has been a couple of revived SWings that were dormant for awhile needing a fuel part to be replaced.

You may want to check the exhaust pipe for any nests/debris. Maybe you could use water to flush/test.

Check the basic items first.

Idle speed according to the book is 1,300 +_ 100min. RPM hope that helps.
Craig

All good suggestions. Thanks. I'll post what I find.

20 mpg...it's very low .Check sparkplugs (both).Check for a  good burning (dry and milkchocolate-brown on the insulator is a good burning).If yess...There is a mechanical problem between engine output axe and wheel(s).

mikef wrote:

Looks like a small indication of rust in the tank, probably sat with an empty tank for those 2 years.

Hi Mike,

First of all, welcome! I also have an '03 - one of the nicer colors available, IMHO (but I'm a little biased ).

Mine had even lower miles (730) when I bought it 9 months ago, and there was a lot of rust in my tank. There was a fuel tank recall for '03 only, and it's worth having the dealer check and make sure it was done - mine hadn't been so I got a bran new gas tank put in for free If they do have to put one in then they could also check the fuel filter (I think it might just be a screen) and make sure that hasn't been plugged up with any rust particles. I doubt it could be clogged enough to kill the mileage that much on its own, but it couldn't hurt to look if everything's apart anyway.

Hey Mike,

Wow! 20 MPG! That's pretty bad! When I got mine, it was getting 35 (Solid interstate riding at 70 MPH or higher) and I was real upset. My bike is very similar to yours when I bought it. Also a 2003 with less than 5K on the clock. All the Suggestions above are good. Be sure to check the air filter. There is a good pictorial here on this site for it. The reason I say this is that it was the culprit for my bikes poor performance fuel mileage wise and it was the last thing I checked because it was the hardest thing to get to. But its really not that bad once you do it. I gained a solid 5 MPG when I changed it out. In the case of my bike, an older gentleman had owned it and dropped it on the right side. He put it in a barn for about 3 years and there it sat before I got a hold of it. This was when we were having the big drought down south and the dust was everywhere. When I pulled out the air filter, I was simply STUNNED at the layers of dust that were inbetween and on the pleats of the air filter. Once I changed this out, it was like night and day. The bike could breath and that digital bar didn't drop nearly as fast and I was a far happier Swinger. Since your bike was sitting for a while like mine was, I'd go ahead and change the oil & filter as well along with the plugs. Make sure those tires are where they should be PSI wise and along with the air filter, i'll bet this should pull you up. It may also take a few tanks of good gas as well. I like to run stabil in mine not only to preserve the fuel and keep it fresh, but to help counteract the ethanol's water issue, and just help keep things a little cleaner. I'd reccomend throwing some type of cleaner in the tank at least once until you've got a few miles on a fresh tank of fuel and just simply give the system a chance to "purge" itself a little. I hope that fuel mileage comes back up for you. Good Luck!

Thanks. I checked the air filter, looks good, but I ordered a new one just because. Beats me why they decided they needed 40 screws to hold it in. Trying to flush the cooling system, but still trying to find the water pump to drain it.

Should also mention I can't get more than 2 gallons of gas in it. Got 98 miles on it and ran out of gas. Filled up, only a little over two gallons, and it shows full. If that's the case, I'm getting about 45-50 MPG. Maybe I have an airlock, or there is something blocked in the tank. I'll check that recall thing out. Good info.

mikef wrote:

Trying to flush the cooling system, but still trying to find the water pump to drain it.

It's hidden behind the shirt on the lower left-hand side - that piece needs to be loosened or removed to get to the drain (see here for more info). Also, our fearless leader (JeffR) mentioned that he had plans to do a pictorial at some point in the [not so distant?] future.

mikef wrote:

Should also mention I can't get more than 2 gallons of gas in it. Got 98 miles on it and ran out of gas. Filled up, only a little over two gallons, and it shows full. If that's the case, I'm getting about 45-50 MPG. Maybe I have an airlock, or there is something blocked in the tank. I'll check that recall thing out.

That's rather odd - the shape of the tank wouldn't seem to lend itself to airlocking like that, but maybe there's more to it than meets the eye. Did it actually run out, or just read empty? If the latter, then maybe it's the float/sending unit acting up...

It ran out. Wouldn't start, until I added gas. Gauge went from 1/2 tank, to last bar and flashing. Five miles later, I was dead.

Hey Mike,

After you check the plugs there is one or two more things that would be good to check. Fuel Pressure and the Fuel Pressure Regulator. This one item is a major problem when a Silverwing has been setting a long time. You might want to find a honda tech to check this one.

If you pull the fuel pump out of the tank, replace the fuel filter while it is out (Fuel filter is inside the tank and part of the whole assembly that comes out). It is probably full of junk and while it may not be the proximate cause of your problem, it would be a good preventative step for the future.

Thanks edbancro.

At the looks of the previous crack in the lower skirt, looks like the last time it was changed, the mech got in a hurry and wasn't very careful. Not broken in half, but definitely cracked. Next time I flush it, I'll use some ABS cement on the inside crack to strengthen and seal.

Thinking about that recall thing, there is a site I've used to see if my bank angle sensor was recalled on my 93 Goldwing.

Pretty useful site.

http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/recalls/recallsearch.cfm

mikef wrote:

It ran out. Wouldn't start, until I added gas. Gauge went from 1/2 tank, to last bar and flashing. Five miles later, I was dead.

Weird. Just that behavior would lead one to think the float was getting stuck at 1/2 tank for a while, but it wouldn't explain the reduced fill capacity...

Mike, hope I am not pointing out the obvious, but do you have the bike on the center stand when you fill up?

You can call American Honda and give them the VIN, and they can tell you if the three recalls have been completed. Gas tank recall phone number is 866-784-1870. They should be able to tell you about the handlebars and center stand recalls as well on the same call.

If you only put 2 gallons in and went 98 miles, I'd say that is about right.

While we're on the subject of dirty fuel tanks, I was talking to my mechanic last week. He sells a product that was originally for use in boat engines called Star Tron. I believe it functions like Stabil. He says it helps to neutralize the moisture effects (Ethanol Induced Water attraction was the term on the Stabil Website) of ethanol and prohibit corrosion in the tank while also keeping the fuel fresh, and helping to clean the fuel system. It is a blue liquid instead of red. While at Northern Tool this weekend, I saw a blue version of Stabil that was for Marine use as well. Also, the regular Stabil has recently been improved with more corrosion inhibitors according to the website specifically for the purpose of addressing ethanol based fuels. I always put Stabil in starting in the late fall not knowing what my last tank of gas is going to be and usually every so often throughout the summer. With the new found knowledge that ethanol can attract moisture, I am going to try and run Stabil more often throughout the year and not just on occasion. Here is a link with some interesting info on ethanol based fuels that has some good info.... I am one to who believes that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure so I do like to put this stuff in the tank. I find Stabil to be less expensive so I will stick with it over Star tron for the time being.

http://e85.whipnet.net/ethanol.faq/index.html

Checked it tonight again. Not wanting to run out of gas with 1/2 tank showing, I filled up after 88 miles. Took on 1.6 gallons, for about 50 MPG.

I think what's happening is the fuel sensor may be bad. When it did "run out of gas", it turned over quickly, like it wasn't getting any spark. I think the sensor shuts down the electronics, killing the engine, not the actual act of running out of gas.

I will call Honda tomorrow to see about the recall. If it is not included, I will pull the pump and sensor, replacing the sensor and the fuel filter to see what happens.

Thanks for the great ideas, guys.

The Silverwing's fuel tank holds 4.2 US gal. Why not just fill it up and then see how far you get on a tank full?

Dennis took the words put of my mouth. I really never went by the fuel gauge. I knew I could get a little over 220 miles per tank. Started looking to refuel at 180-200miles. Never ran out. Good for you finding out that you are not actually getting 20 mpg. Get your repairs to measure true metering of fuel, but knowing what you do now, you should be okay.

I have re read your posts and think I may be a little confused in my suggestion to you. If you are running out of gas after a refill and only getting 100 miles, that is one thing. If your gauge "Says" you are out of gas is another.
If your tank only holds 2 gals after actually dying because your tank is dry and you have rolled to the side of the road, that is a real puzzle. I understood you to say that you were adding two gals of fuel after riding 100 miles. That is normal range of fuel consumption. But your 4.2 gal tank should not "fill up" with only 2 gals from empty. Maybe my medications are confusing me.
I am most interested in knowing what you finally find out.

mikef wrote:

Checked it tonight again. Not wanting to run out of gas with 1/2 tank showing, I filled up after 88 miles. Took on 1.6 gallons, for about 50 MPG.

I think what's happening is the fuel sensor may be bad. When it did "run out of gas", it turned over quickly, like it wasn't getting any spark. I think the sensor shuts down the electronics, killing the engine, not the actual act of running out of gas.

I tried searching but could not find the post.

Someone just ran into a problem after the Silverwing was warm, then they had a fuel problem.

One fuel component was below the specification (not the gas tank), they replaced the component which resolved the issue. I tried search and google search but could not find the post ... does anyone remember which part it was??

I am usually able to ride a couple of hours, or about 100 miles worth. Then, with the gauge showing 1/2 full, it suddenly drops down to the last bar, and starts flashing. Shortly after that, it kills. When I fill it up, it only takes about 2 gallons. Happened again last night. Two gallons, filled it up, after 87 miles.

I'm not sure how the system works, but it seems the engine is getting a signal there is no more gas, and it quits. When I try to restart it, it spins very quickly and sounds like it is not getting any spark. As soon as I add gas, the engine sound of the cranking sounds different. After a few tries, it starts, and everything is normal. Lots of power and speed.

So Mike, What your saying is...You still have 2.2 gal's of gas in the tank but the scooter acks like it runs out of gas. That's very strange indeed.

a search on "faulty fuel pump" on the .org site came up with a handful of posts describing this symptom. You might have a look there.

Thanks Jon. I checked out the site and couldn't find a similar issue.

I just called Honda and they told me all the recalls have been taken care of on this bike. The fuel tank issue was a strength of the material problem, used on some bikes.

I think a call to a dealer is my next step. I hate replacing parts, hoping I find the right one.

Mikef, when you get it fixed, could you please come back and provide the solution for future readers? Not pickin' at you in particular, just asking. This sounds like a problem that has not come up before.

It seems that these type forums have lots of posts where a puzzling problem is posted, lots of forum members spend time trying to help the poster, then you never hear back from the original poster to find out what fixed the problem. I've seen this on the Chinese scooter website, this site and the .org site, and the Aprilia site.

Thanks for keeping us (and future readers) in mind.

Philip

I plan on doing that, Phillip. I share the same feelings as you.

I had luck using justanswer.com before, so I gave them a question. Here is their response...

"Either the fuel sensor is sticking or the resistance in the circuit has increased possibly by corrosion, loose connector
As the old fuel evaporates it leaves a resin like material around the pivot so it may stick
When the fuel injection system gets the empty signal it quits

Anyway the fuel sensor or its circuit is the problem"

Ride Safe
Bike-Doc

I dumped a full can of Seafoam in tonight and picked up a 1 gallon gas container. Filled the bike and will let it sit for a day or so. Next time I ride, I'm going to see how far I can go. I kind of feel the same way as the bike responder. If I can't break it loose, if that is the problem, I'm going in.......to look inside the tank and probably change the filter, as long as I'm there.

I will be back..........

Took a ride tonight with a full tank and have 140 miles on the trip meter. The gas bars started to flash between 3 bars, and 1 bar and flashing. I think I have started to loosen some of the gunk. With a full can of Seafoam and the rest gas, I would think MPG would be lower than normal. That means I got about 45 MPG on the first 3 gallons. Either way, I seem to be on the right track. I will run it empty and fill it with 100% gas. I'll record the mileage and the gas needed to fill it. On the next tank, I'll throw another can of Seafoam in and see what happens. Engine is still strong and responsive.

Bought a service manual today and ready to go into the tank, if I have to. I'm hoping it was old residue around the pivot on the gas sensor, like the mechanic suggested.

Good for you Mike... you are on the right track... seafoam is certainly better than having to replace tank or float or other electronic component. Here is hoping all is well with you very soon. Keep us us on progress...

Mike,

Good news and thanks for sharing this with us. It seems you will become the "resident expert" in this matter in the future. If your bar started to flash at about 140 miles I think you found your solution.

Filled it up this morning and it took 2.7 gallons, good for 144.3 miles. about 53 mpg, not bad for a full can of Seafoam in it. The gauge still kicked between 3 bars and 1 bar and flashing, before I filled it up. I think it's more free now, but still some gunk remaining. I tried rocking it back and forth to get as much movement of the gas, before filling.

Put straight gas in today. Next fill, I'll hit it with some more Seafoam. Hopefully it will work itself out and I can start spending my time looking for options, like the locking trunk........

Hey Mike,

It sure sounds like your getting the right MPG now. Congatulations.