Brand Spanking New

Hello Everybody.

I'm new to all of this. I've recently picked up a used 2004 Silverwing that has 10K miles on it. I live in the Ft. Lauderdale, FL area and have recently taken a MSF beginners course; its required by FL to get the motorcycle endorsement on the license. I'm waiting to receive a copy of my birth certificate so that I can get the license. In the mean time, I've been sneaking down the street to a very large parking lot to practice and play. This is my very first motorized two wheel anything and I'm 51 years old.

I was wondering if anyone could explain the mechanics of turning to me? In the MSF course, they stressed turning your head and looking at where you want to go. I seem to have more problems turning to the right than I do to the left. I've also noticed that the more I concentrate on trying to do everything correctly, the more problems I seem to have. When I don't think about everything I was told I'm supposed to do in the turn, and just turn, it seems easier. I've ridden bicycles for years. I know motorcycles/scooters and bicycles are not the same thing, but I'm assuming the mechanics are pretty much the same with the exception of weight and the speeds because of the power of the motor.

Could someone please explain to me what does turning your head cause to happen, that allows the scooter to turn?

Thanks,
Bill

Do not discount the similarities of bicycle riding and higher speed riding. The gyroscopic effects are the same, only magnified.

I rode motorcycles for a long time before I consciously learned about counter-steering. This became even more critical on a scooter.

There are two ways to turn on a 2-wheel vehicle. (Of course you have to do both every time, but consciously you do one, and you do it first.) You can lean or you can counter-steer. On a motorcycle you have your knees pressed against the gas tank so if you are going to start your turn by leaning (counter-steering naturally) it is easier to push with your knees. On a scoot, no gas tank so you basically have to throw your weight with your butt. But if you start your turn with a very gentle counter-steer (leaning naturally) you have a great deal more control.

Practice counter-steering as much as you can, it will be difficult in a parking lot because you have to be going over 5-10 mph to counter-steer.

Good luck, and you have found a really great place for all kinds of riding and scootering advice.

As far as turning your head goes, I'm thinking that turning your head to the left causes your arms to pull the handlebars to the right, which starts a counter-steer. But that's just a guess. When I look at something to the left, I try to keep going straight. Maybe tilting your head to the left is more what you are talking about. That would start a lean.

Lean right.
Push right.
Turn right.

If you want to turn to the right, PUSH on the right grip. It makes the wheel turn to the left (which is counter to where you want to go) and the bike wants to fall to the right. By holding the wheel to the left (by pushing right) you control the amount of fall (however long the curve is) and the sharpness (sharp corner or gentle curve) of the fall. All this works best when at speed (I've heard it is most effective at speeds over 15 mph). You may find that, by practicing in a parking lot, you do not get to a fast enough pace to experience counter-steering yet. At slow speeds, you still steer by pointing the wheel in the direction of where you want to go, and sitting upright.

If you lean slightly forward when steering, your body weight naturally falls onto your arms, and then onto the grip. Sitting bolt upright means that you have to more-consciously push on the grip.

Hope you get on the road soon. Once you do, I think it will become more apparent what counter-steering does.

Welcome to the site.

billmc wrote:

Hello Everybody.

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Could someone please explain to me what does turning your head cause to happen, that allows the scooter to turn?

Thanks,
Bill

Bill , it is called "target Fixation" . Basically it means you go where you look.
If you look down the road you go down the road. You can actually turn sharper if you look where you want to go.
Ex. If you look at thte ground right in front of you wheile making a sharp turn, You usually fall over. But if you look farther into the turn you do not fall into the turn.

I had a friend who got "target fixation" years ago, we were riding down a shaded country road at a brisk pace. There was a Dead skunk in the left tire track. The bikes ahead of him pointed at the skunk to warn him. He saw it and kept looking at it. He went from the right tire track to the left and hit it dead center. I was behind him and it was a RIPE ONE. He smelled to high heaven for a month.

Hope this helps.
MaxB

Target fixation is very important to note as Max has mentioned. I was once riding drag on a group ride and saw the biggest pothole I'd ever seen on the road. I kept thinking to myself, it's gotta be a real idiot to fall into THAT hole. And of course, because I kept looking at it, that's exactly where I ended up!

If you see an obstacle, look to where you want to go instead - don't keep staring at the obstacle or that's exactly where you'll go.

Hey Guys,

Thanks for all the good info. I think some of my "not thinking about how to do it" goes back to my days of bicycles, even though I didn't know I learned it then. While taking the MSF course I did once find myself trying to turn the scooter with my leg as suggested by DuggleBogey, pushing against the tank (on the bike it would have been the bar) but there was nothing there and my knee went right through the space.

I've done a little poking around the net this morning and came across two articles I've found interesting. I'll post the links below. As one of the articles said if it was just a matter of training the conscious mind to do this there would be a book and a dvd; after reading we'd all be experts. Even though I'm still having trouble getting my mind wrapped around the "turning left to go right" thing, I guess it comes down to practice.

I hope to get out and practice some more this afternoon. Yesterday it rained and they're calling for rain again today, I'll have to see what happens. I'm thinking its best to learn on dry pavement first.

Here are the links:

This one is from Mark Lawrence's site
http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/MotorcycleIntro1.html#Steering

This one is from the California Superbike School
http://www.superbikeschool.com/machinery/no-bs-machine.php

I'm glad I found this site and I'm sure you'll be hearing about more of my escapades.

Bill

Just because of your post I checked myself looking to the left and the right while riding to work this morning, and I continued to ride straight as I looked around. Now, my head is usually on a swivel when I am riding because I love to see all the sights.. You just don't get the same views in a car as you do in the open air.

I think the "turn your head" is more of a target fixation thing that Max was talking about. If you look to where you want the bike to go, it will basically go there. Not really a, "if you look at a house on the left the bike goes left" kind of thing.

Well technically, if you look at the house on the left LONG ENOUGH, you will go somewhere.

And I have been guilty of doing the fixation thing. I will see a rock or piece of debris on the road and intend to avoid it, and have been known to actually run right over it.

And I am not even talking about that Ford 150 I slid under in April.

I re trained my son (34 yrs old) several summers ago (I think 4yrs), He hadn't ridden since he was little on an old trail 70.
He wanted a road bike, so I rode to california , SF , to see him and look for bikes and reteach him.

We set up the cones and the box etc. in a LARGE lot by the ball park. He would ride around at fisrt just to get use to shifing. and how the bike felt.

He was doing pretty well but was having trouble with tight turns. He was bobbing and weaving. (turn straight turn). I watched him for a while , he then asked what he was doing wrong.

I just told him to make big circles while looking at me standing in the middle. His circles got tighter and tighter, until he was able to do a 20ft circle on a large cruiser. (That impressed me.) he asked me why it was so much easier looking at me.

I told him what he was doing was looking where he wanted to go , then looking straight, thus causing the turn (bob and weave) to be eratic.
I do believe he can ride better than the old man because he listened and he can turn his head more than me. (bad back)
While he was at it he learned to push on the handlbar on the inside of the circle , almost stiff arming it. makind the bike turn tighter circles.

You might try this yourself. Place a victim er...helper in the middle of where you want to practice. Start your turns makeing smaller and smaller circles as you feel more confident. You would be surprised after a lot of practice how small a circle you can make.

MaxB (who took a teaching class many many yrs ago.)

Another secret for slower speeds on a scooter is to keep the clutches engaged.
You noticed I am sure that when slowing down at some speed (around 10-15 mph) that the motor disengages and is no longer driving the rear wheel.
This makes slow turning very hard, the scooter wants to fall in/over when this happens.
To remedy this on a scooter , you keep the revs up to keep the clutch engaged and use the rear brake to control your speed. Practice this and your turns will be much smoother.
This is similar to the technique of rear brake, feathering the clutch on a M/C.
they both work wonders in slow speed maneuvers.

Hope this helps.
MaxB (practice practice practice)

An excellent resource on Tips, Techniques and Safety related articles for Motorcycling - http://www.msgroup.org/default.aspx

I think one reason they ask you to look where you are turning is that when you're not looking at the road in front of you, but instead at the end of the turn, you inadvertently lean more during the turn which allows you to perform a more natural turn.

A riding instructor told me that most people have difficulty turning right compared to turning left, due to the gas lever being located on the right.. doesn't make sense to me since I have more difficulty turning left