Warning - UK Riders - Avoid

Unfortunately I've just been scammed, or rather a firm has just tried to scam me!

To avoid the Vat Increase and having saved up I decided to order myself a metal cutting band saw. Shopping around I decided on a Sealey model. I punched in what I wanted into Google and it came back with list of suppliers and prices.

As I'm on limited income theses days (aren't we all) I obviously chose the one with the best deal. I placed my order mid afternoon on the 31st Dec. I paid by Paypal and received confirmation of my order and receipt of payment shortly afterwards by email.

Knowing that most firms would not be working until the following Tuesday, I waited until yesterday to follow up my order.

At first, the firms representative tried to tell me that they had been incontact with my business over the previous few days - when I asked to whom had they spoken, it turned out they'd send an email; of which of course their was no evidence - either on my machine, server or ISP. I asked who had originated the email, again they couldn't tell me but suspected it was a 'collegue' who was either off with flu or his kids had flu??? Either way he wasn't available to talk to.

The upshot of the conversation was that due to increase in Vat on the 4th of Jan, and despite the fact I'd place my order on the 31st Dec and paid and had a receipt, despite all this they still wanted an extra £30+ to take into account the Vat increase.....

I told them to forget it and do me a refund....... We shall see what transpires.

In hindsight I should've done what I did later which was to have a look at some of the independant review websites. Most, if not all had stories rather like mine or similar; item ordered isn't in stock (web site shows it as being held on stock), buyer pays and is then offered a more expensive item as an alternative, and then get hassle trying to get a refund.

Oh Dear - Well you live and learn, and I thought I was reasonably savvy when it comes to buying over the net!

The firm in question is:

ww.MNC.co.uk, they also trade under about 4 or 5 differant names including 'My New Laptop' and My New GPS' - its all the same firm!

Try to avoid getting caught out like we did, and use the independant review sites to check their history. This firm get an average of 1.5 out of 5 stars; the equivalent of an ebay seller with a feedback score of just 30% - somebody I wouldn't normally touch with a barge pole!!

Later folks

Sorry to hear of your misfortune but thanks for the warning.

I seem always to end up paying top price or somewhere near it but at least the goods have always arrived so far.

Now I seem only to buy from Amazon online - their delivery speed to me over here is outstanding and they do have sales and bargains.
I ordered a new Bosch battery-drill just before Christmas and it arrived two days before it was due, still before Christmas.

I hope you have better luck in buying the saw when you try again.

Sorry to hear of your problem Skippy.

Have you also contacted Paypal. I do as a matter of courtesy, also the credit card or debit card whom Paypal will deduct any expenditure from.

I have had positive responses from both when this happened to me last year. After an email from Egg, the potential fraudster gave me an immediate and full refund.

Nothing to lose good buddy.

Thanks Guys. Better you learn from my miserable experience than your own

I'm going to wait until Tuesday before I contact the firm again.

I want to give them a little breathing space for 'Admin' purposes. I might be happily surprised on Monday afternoon to find a refund message in my inbox - but I ain't holding my breath

If I get a negative or zero response from them on Tues then my next port of call will be Paypal (another firm I have deal with, but have a dubious track record of customer services) and at my bank. Unfortunately, I used a debit card to make the payment so I suspect the bank will only be able to offer limited help as well.

I was half-listening to one of the BBC's Consumer programmes last week and recall something being said to the effect that a bank's customer can formally request his bank to contact the bank of the company's bank to get the money back.
This included a payment by Debit Card.
I'm sorry I can't be more specific or certain but it is worth contacting your bank.

Ah!!! a Fellow fan of Radio 4

Mike, I briefly considered contacting R4 for advice but its a very hit and miss affair at the best of times, depending on the subject matter they cover.

Oddly enough, all the way through childhood I listenend to Radio 4 - Dads choice at home and in his car. Occasionally, on very long trips to see my Gran etc. my mum would prevail and re-tune the AM Mono unit in my Dads Volvo to BBC 2 for Forces/Families Favourites etc. I loved the comedy half hour on Sunday afternoons during lunch - the only time any form of entertainment was allowed on! At my fathers insistance the Televison was ALWAYS turned off during meals, he rightly believed that it destroyed the art of conversation

It was only when I was about 8 or 9 years old that I finally got a radio receiver all my own and discovered other programmes like Radio 1, Radio Luxemberg and local radio. I've got to be honest, even back then I prefered programmes such as 'Analysis' and 'A book at Bed Time' to the latest popular tunes - geek or what!!!! LOL

MInd you this was at a time when the whole of youth culture stopped whatever it was doing for half an hour on a Thursday evening at 7 PM to watch Top of the Pops! Back then we thought it was great.... Looking at it now on You Tube the music brings back the memories of great times - and with the music comes the memory of discovering 'girls'! But the presenters; like Noel Edmunds, and their antics only make me want to cringe now!

Come back Toya, Yellow Pearl, Tears For Fears et al all is forgiven now!!

Skippy wrote:

The upshot of the conversation was that due to increase in Vat on the 4th of Jan, and despite the fact I'd place my order on the 31st Dec and paid and had a receipt, despite all this they still wanted an extra £30+ to take into account the Vat increase.....

Just a couple of questions

Did the company issue an invoice when you paid by paypal?

Did they give a delivery date for the goods?

HMRC issued guidelines to VAT registered companies well before the increase. The company supplying the goods, can if they so desire, charge the reduced VAT up to the end of january 2011 if the order was placed prior to the VAT increase date.

It is irrelavant if the 2 parties involved are VAT registered, what rate is charged as both can claim input/output tax.

However if they claim 20% off you and can show 17.5% on your order, it can be masked and they make 2.5%.

If I were you and you paid by Paypal lodge a dispute and their account is frozen.

Don't be fobbed off by the fact that say they have to collect the 20%, they don't, it is discretionary

Hello Paul (digression time)

In my youth it was the Light Programme and Home Service!
There was Radio Luxemborg - 'Luck, Lucky Luxemborg' and then the Pirates - i was a fan of Radio London.

Like you we used to listen to the comedy programmes; on Sunday afternoon was The Billy Cotton Band Show followed by a selection from Ray's A Laugh, Educating Archie, The Clitheroe Kid, Meet The Glums, Beyond Our Ken, Round The Horn and so on.
Then on Sunday early evening were serieals such as Paul Temple and some scary stories, one of which still scares me after all these years - City of the Hidden Eyes.

We didn't have a television but used to go next door to my grandpa's as he had one. In the early days he had a magnifying lens on a stand in front of it.
I remember distinctly his getting a box to put on top in order to change channels when ITV started.

Those were the days!
I can only get Radio 4 here and that's on Long-Wave. Curiously, when I dropped my radio in the middle of the night during the Test Match and was fiddling about in the dark trying to re-tune it, I found 5-Live. I must investigate further.
Unfortunately, I can't even get other channels on the Internet - I suppose there's no agreement between the BBC and Telenet.
I manage, though. ;-)

MLC (How I wish folks would log a 'real' identifier),

As I wrote earlier, I'm sitting on my thumbs for now to wait and see just how this 'firm' reacts. I've verbally requested a refund at the end of a phonecall having cancelled the order. I'm aware that even small businesses need time to process information so don't expect an immediate response - hence the pause until Tuesday.

If I don't get a statisfactory resolution to the problem on Tuesday then my next course of action will be contact Paypal and my Bank.

Being semi-retired and the boss has its benefits....... When a situation like this arises I can devote as much time as necessary to see it through. Regardless of how this turns out I will be be contacting my local trading standards office with all my paperwork etc. If this business has been flagged up in the past on their system then my input will only swell TS case against them!

If that fails, then a vist by a dozen bikers seems to focus most folks minds lol.

From personal experience.

It is better to use a credit card over a debit card.

A credit cards means you are spending the lenders money, Visa/Master Card etc. They have massive legal 'muscle' when it comes to fraudulent use or misuse of their money,

Using a 'debit' card you are using your own funds!!! As the money is removed direct from your bank account.

There is more legislation regards the protection of funds with credit cards. Bank will help but their financial threshold for help is far less than the might of the credit companies.

Like I say Skippy, personal experience. (Aside from that I used to work in a high street bank). Albeit for only a short while.

Skippy wrote:

MLC (How I wish folks would log a 'real' identifier),

Done!


Being semi-retired and the boss has its benefits.......

Certainly does but its time that could be better spent on other things.

We all look forward to the outcome

Sitting here chuckling over that one; it goes to prove that people here read what's gone before before posting - would that that happened on the other forums I frequent.

MikeO wrote:

Sitting here chuckling over that one; it goes to prove that people here read what's gone before before posting - would that that happened on the other forums I frequent.

Hi Mike

Well I had to sort it out, 'cos I feel chastised lol

Paul

Mike,

A very, very relevant point! How many times have I witnessed flame outs, slagging matches, out and out threats etc. Only to see the relevant parties be taken to one side - usually by Admin, read the riot act and had the 'whole' storey explained!

A few, a mere few have even had the decency to apologiese; the rest have either gone off in a huff (good riddance) or tried to back track; never a good move when all the evidence is there for eveyone to see and read LOL.

I was very lucky to be given years ago when I first started using the net, a pocket size book called 'the rough guide to the internet'. As usual it was split into various chapters etc. Loking at it now its mostly out of date by a long way, but it does have the salient points from each chapter at the end bulleted. I always try to keep in mind the point highlighted about email and chatrooms -

its all easy to be very rude using email/chat as the person you are addressing the message too isn't actually in front of you; they can neither see you expression nor hear the inflection in your voice! Keep this in mind at all times!

I have to admit there have been occasions when I have deliberately ignored this advice as well

Thats what I appreciate about this particular forum, its nice to log into a site where the users generally treat each other with respect (most of the time).............

The sage continues, surprisingly the firm has coughed up with very little of a demur - they did have to find the paperwork apparently, but you can hardly blame them for that.

I duly received notification that a refund has been made by MNC to my paypal account by email. I assumed it would be credited to my paypal account....... nope, it goes back on the card I use to fund my account!

Thats okay says I, shouldn't take too long - so I checked?????? The best answer I can get is:

'UP TO 30 DAYS???' - Why, nobody can tell me. So now Paypal have my money and goodness only knows when I'll see it again.!

The other thing I found odd was that I couldn't find a complete copy of the useage agreement between myself and Paypal, only their 'abreviated' for the net version. The reason I searched is because I want to clarify something that I noticed while trying to sort this all out.

From what I gather, buyers/sellers are NOT covered by Paypals compensations scheme if either party has failed to 'confirm' a registered address..... This isn't a statutory requirement here in the UK (not sure about the rest of the world) so technically anybody I deal with via paypal who hasn't done the above could rip me off and I, by their inaction etc. aren't covered - Great Thought eh!

Heh Skippy

Interesting interlude.

I had a very similar situation only over the last 2 weeks, by 2 different suppliers.

One was a sale on Ebay, and after paying by paypal was subsequently told by them that it was out of stock.

The second was a motorbike spares dealer that accepted paypal on their site, once again I paid for it and was then told it would be 3 to 4 weeks as they were waiting for stock from Italy.

On both occasions I cancelled and like you received an email notifying me that monies had been repaid into my paypal account.

I, like you, expected monies in my account immediately, but when I investigated this it appeared that both payments had been put on temporary hold.

I did find some info on this temporary hold. In my case the actual money that was paid to the suppliers by paypal had, in fact, not been recieved by paypal from my account as it takes between 2 to 4 days for them to get it through the BACS system. So in effect, paypal are taking a interim hit on funds that they authorise to suppliers.

I am only guessing Skippy, but yours maybe the same scenario, I don't know. Is there anything showing in your paypal?

My funds were relaesed to me in 3 days.

I hope it is sorted out for you soon.

Paul