Forum posting tone

The Administrators have given the members a lot of leeway in their posts and the majority of members have helped this forum to be the "Friendliest Silverwing Forum".

We do not know why the number verbal attacks or abuses against other have recently increased significantly in both numbers and viciousness.

Different Members and Administrators have tried gently suggesting and requesting more civility.

I have seen several forums rip themselves apart from these attacks and never recover ... if the attacks are never handled or responded to.

The Administrators really would prefer not do anything and letting everything work itself out ... yet the problem seems to be worsening.

Right now it seems like we have two options

1) Remove offending lines from posts and leaving "[Moderator removed ...]" messages

2) Continued abusive or unacceptable behavior will cause temporary suspension

Effective immediately the Administrators will have to start enforcing these options. If the forum returns to a friendlier tone, then more leeway will be restore.

If anyone else has any questions or additional suggestions please either post to this thread ( or if you prefer PM the Administrators).

Thanks Bill,
Like you, I can't understand why things were getting out of hand. The main thing is that you are handling it. This is the best darn Silver Wing site on the net and I, as mentioned before, would really hate to see it deteriorate like some of the other sites have. Thanks again for your rapid response.

Hmmm. I get chastised publicly for telling a member to go away. Larryinseattle calls me stupid and tells me to **** off and doesn't get publicly chastised.
Seems fair to me. I hope you guys get as much help from Larryinseattle as you do from me, because I'm under the impression that what I did was worse.
If so, I think I'll pack up my tools and move on.

If anyone wants any help, PM me and I'll get back to them on a personal basis. Just don't ask me about car tires on a scooter. You know who to ask about that.

bigbird wrote:

Hmmm. I get chastised publicly for telling a member to go away.

Anyone telling another another member to go away, would have gotten the same identical response.

bigbird wrote:

Larryinseattle calls me stupid and tells me to **** off and doesn't get publicly chastised.
Seems fair to me.

If you go back and review the thread, I have already "re-edited" the posts to mark the scarlet letters "[Moderator removed ...]" telling everyone and the posters it is not acceptible.

Thank you for taking care of this and bringing it back to sanity.

It is rather surprising (and disappointing) that this thread would even be necessary. Whatever happened to people conducting themselves with dignity and respect? As a group our ages would suggest that we are all mature adults, but so much of this behavior is simply childish.

It's a sad day indeed. I have always thought this to be the best and friendliest forum on the net. In the past I have taken some sarcastic remarks personally but instead of posting right away I will sleep on it then read it again next day. Usually then see that it was meant in jest. If I thought it was not intended as a joke, well I had cooled off by then and just let the sleeping dog lie.
Anyhow I hope everyone can police themselves and not have this site turn into anything like the other site. It is not fair to Jeff to be put in the position of having to edit a post or suspend someone.
Lets all try to be civil and enjoy the best Silverwing site on the web.

On the one hand we need to avoid personal insults.
On the other hand, we need to have thicker skins.
On the third hand we've got to stop so the OP can get his answers.
On the fourth hand we've got to be willing to report posts and let mods handle things that need to be handled before they get out of hand.

Ask any of my ex-girlfriends. They will claim I have at least four hands.

Terry (bigbird),

Please don't pack up your tools. You are a very valuable and appreciated asset. It is just that lately this forum has gone from the "friendliest" to "not quite the friendliest" site. I sure don't want you to leave over any of this.

To all,

It does seem that some members take it "just a wee bit too far" at times, with their responses. It also seems that most of this is centered around various modifications. Some won't modify a bike at all and others can't modify enough. But we shouldn't say someone is wrong to "mod" or "not mod" our SWings. It is all personal choice and we should just accept that we are like this.

So maybe we can ALL try not to pass judgement on others and what we do to our bikes. But just stay the "friendliest" site on the net, as we should be. I bet if we all got together for a beer we would all have a great time.

Maybe we can all meet at a center point, like the Greenwich Meridan, for a nice "ale". Thanks.

JeffR_ wrote:

Terry (bigbird),

Please don't pack up your tools. You are a very valuable and appreciated asset. It is just that lately this forum has gone from the "friendliest" to "not quite the friendliest" site. I sure don't want you to leave over any of this.

Thanks for your support Jeff.

I'll put this out here now. I'm not disappointed in larryinseattle's tirade on me. I can handle that. Yes, I obviously pushed all his wrong buttons. I don't know him. I didn't expect him to fire back with some pretty vulgar stuff. What I was disappointed in was our admin's response to all the nonsense. His chastising me for telling larry to go away was not tempered with any kind of public chastising larry for his vulgar attack on me.
I'm pretty sure this started long ago before honda_silver was admin. More than once he gave technical advice which was incorrect. I called him on it and I don't think he's ever let it go. His grudge I suspect was the cause of his inequality in reprimanding larry and me.
Again, I won't be contributing, commenting, or responding to anything on here in the public area. If anyone, even larryinseattle, wants to ask me about the mechanicals of our silver wings, I'll be more than happy to respond to a PM.
I'll part by saying enjoy your swings, with or without mods, with or without whatever kind of tire you choose to mount, and without any prejudice on my part.
Terry

Terry,

I just sent you a PM so please read it and reconsider. I didn't read what Larry said in his response so I can't say anything about it (Larry, I'm not saying this to start anything but since your name was brought up). But I hope you will reconsider not being active since you really are very well respected here, even if some think your responses are a bit over the top. We have all posted things in haste, I know I have.

But I do understand if someone said profanity to you , and you do have a right to get upset. Hopefully that will never happen again. DickO made a good post of this being family friendly and that is what this forum has always been really. If my daughter can't read this forum then something is wrong. Thanks.

bigbird wrote:

I'll part by saying enjoy your swings, with or without mods, with or without whatever kind of tire you choose to mount, and without any prejudice on my part.
Terry

Terry, I believe it's this sort of thing, leaving, the Admin and Mods are trying to avoid.

By bringing it to the fore it is hoped folk will identify with the behaviour and self moderate. Your invaluable knowledge would be a massive loss to all members so please, add another layer of dermis and carry on contributing as you have. Your words of wisdom and experience are invaluable.

Thanks to all who have posted your support. I have PM'd all mods and the admin. We'll see what happens. I'm not asking for much, just a level playing field.
Terry

Happy to meet at Greenwich Meridian but would prefer you make it at Greenwich rather than 0ºN 0ºE as I would have to bring my Waterwings instead of the Silverwing!

Hopefully no-one leaves the forum or 'throws their toys out of the pram' in the future.

Everyone should at least try and act like an adult until senility creeps in.

Cheers,

It's very difficult to try to be helpful when you feel like you're being unfairly abused.

I empathize with you Terry. I know exactly how you feel. You try to be generous with your knowledge and opinions, only to suffer attacks from someone who's only trying to start trouble and make you miserable. Their only goal is to make you feel bad, and unfortunately if you care, it works.

I have relegated myself to reader only status for some time. I just wanted to post to tell you that other people feel the same way you do.

I don't wish any ill feelings to anyone on this board. I just had to stop being involved for my own well being. I hope everyone enjoys their Silver Wing as much as I do.

Good luck all.

DuggleBogey wrote:

I have relegated myself to reader only status for some time. I just wanted to post to tell you that other people feel the same way you do.



Good luck all.

+1

Bigbird is the man who knows whereof he speaks.

I should know, because I am a technician for 40 years
And indeed a rational straight talk is not always appreciated.
I have also personally experienced.

JeffR_ wrote:

Terry (bigbird),

Please don't pack up your tools. You are a very valuable and appreciated asset.

eddy wrote:

Bigbird is the man who knows whereof he speaks.

I agree with both of these members, Terry. You have helped me publicly and privately through this forum -- thank you. You and JeffR have both provided much guidance and encouragement for learning and understanding bike maintenance.

I wish to thank you guys for your encouraging words of support. If it weren't for feedback like that, I wouldn't bother to offer my help. I am a retired technical instructor, and I guess you just can't take that zest for helping others out of a person if it's innate.

I had a very constructive phone conversation with JeffR last night. We both addressed what happened with the aggressive attack on me, how I responded, and the way it should be handled by the mods and admin if such an incident happens again in the future.

On his end Jeff will communicate with the mods and admin, and on my end I will not allow myself to be baited nor will I go looking for trouble. I know there are some good guys on here who like to give and take, Meldrew and John Grinsel being two of them, and I hope to continue our banter, if not less aggressively by me. If any newbie comes along and starts getting aggressive or offensive, I'll just report it to the powers that be.

As long as all forum members are treated equally and respectfully by our mods, admin, and each other, I will continue to try and help any and all members if I can. I know that almost all of you would do the same for me.
Terry

+1

++1. Glad to see you are staying around. I missed your weather reports.

Terry,

I too am glad you will be providing your expertise - like to hear what my neighbor to the North [only 460 miles from Mpls] is doing.

Take care,

Rick V

Opalsboy wrote:

++1. Glad to see you are staying around. I missed your weather reports.

Grey, leaden skies, a few snow flakes, south wind at 12 mph, temp 19F, wind chill 7F.

Glad to hear you are staying with us.

Cheers,

bigbird wrote:

Grey, leaden skies, a few snow flakes, south wind at 12 mph, temp 19F, wind chill 7F.

Thanks ..

Not to stir up anything... only for comparison... it was sunny and 68F today. Kinda cool now, it is down to 55F, sun starting to fade in the west. Probably won't ride anymore today.

I hope we get some snow before Christmas, at least a cloudy snowy looking day.

It's never good to lose anyone, especially over matters of personality. I, for one, was glad to see you still here and adding your valuable insight. Will try to take advantage of it in the future.

Opalsboy wrote:

Not to stir up anything... only for comparison... it was sunny and 68F today. Kinda cool now, it is down to 55F, sun starting to fade in the west. Probably won't ride anymore today.

I hope we get some snow before Christmas, at least a cloudy snowy looking day.

I'd kill right now for 55F, and we've still got 18 weeks until we can ride again.
Aarrrggghhh!

bigbird wrote:

I'd kill right now for 55F, and we've still got 18 weeks until we can ride again.
Aarrrggghhh!

Can't imagine having parts of the year written off for weather. Don't realise how lucky you can be living off the south coast of UK, our weather is influenced by the gulf stream which keep the water temperatures artificially higher than it would be and as such warms the air of the surrounding land mass.

The temps do drop below freezing on occasions but rarely to the point of stopping bike riding for months. The odd week even several but not 18 or so.

Waspie its a bit colder"up North" Lots of grey days. i've got my inner and outer gloves on inside my Handlebar Muffs,I was out yesterday at one of my regular stops only one other person here on two wheels, definately Hot Vimto, and toasted crumpet weather. Snow in Scotland now. I like your seasonal(avatar?) isit? To Bigbird i say your advice and help are greatly valued, i have been watching the altercation you had and very pleased you resolved it.

Old Limey wrote:

To Bigbird i say your advice and help are greatly valued, i have been watching the altercation you had and very pleased you resolved it.

Thanks, OL.
I have resolved my end. Whether larryinseattle and honda_silver (the admin) have on their ends, I don't know, as I've seen and heard nothing from them on this since.

dspevack wrote:

On the one hand we need to avoid personal insults.
On the other hand, we need to have thicker skins.
On the third hand we've got to stop so the OP can get his answers.
On the fourth hand we've got to be willing to report posts and let mods handle things that need to be handled before they get out of hand.

Ask any of my ex-girlfriends. They will claim I have at least four hands.

+1 (except for the girlfriend comment!).

I have developed a rule that I use for written correspondence (e.g., email) that seems to lessen the trouble that I can get into and for this forum it might go something like this: OP posts, Reviewer A comments, OP rebuts Reviewer A - and then topic is DROPPED by Reviewer A (unless there is a seriously good reason not to do so and I mean serious). Reviewer A is welcome to take the matter up as PM (or better yet via phone call) - but the rest of us don't want to see a continual dialog that seems to be more of a spat than constructive. This does not prevent other reviewers (B, C, etc) from chiming in - in fact, it would be good if they did so; however, this prevents both the OP and Reviewer A from belaboring some non-technical point as they have already traded their best punches. This approach prevents a heated string of unnecessary posts from developing into something no one really wants to read. Further, public admonishment should not be conducted by moderators - it should be private. This does not mean that moderators can not alter/delete posts - but they should do so WITHOUT drawing attention to their change (e.g., a mean statement should just be deleted OR a bad word should just be removed) - as there is no benefit in drawing attention to something that someone has written as this is a form of public admonishment. Site administrators should reach out to REPEAT (anyone can have one bad day) offenders (as time permits) via PM and phone calls (which was done in this case).
Bigbird has 1600 QUALITY posts (many of which have been of immense invaluable assistance to me) and LarryinSeattle has 40 posts, but he has rights too. We can ill afford to lose our technical gurus or offend our new members. This is a family forum, and every family has occasional spats and utters the occasional bad word - but it would take a lot any family member to kick out any family member - young or old! So, if we are family - we need to stick together! So, we should be aware that in our family there may be the occasional abrasive language, minor spats, and infrequent cuss words - but the moderators will keep us together - of which they are doing an excellent job. So,thanks to all those that post (old and new) and to our moderators for their tireless efforts! Happy Holidays!

Dimond wrote:

Further, public admonishment should not be conducted by moderators - it should be private.

+1 to that!

Its time to let this thread die!! Get over it guys - respect is a good thing but there such a thing as beating a dead horse too.

And if this post offends anyone, then you seriously have to get spend some time away from the computer.

Man, i go away for a week and this is still the latest topic?

Captain wrote:

Its time to let this thread die!! Get over it guys - respect is a good thing but there such a thing as beating a dead horse too.

And if this post offends anyone, then you seriously have to get spend some time away from the computer.

This horse ain't dead yet.
Your post doesn't offend me at all. Everyone has an opinion. I don't necessarily agree with yours. I can't ride for another 4 months, so poking the still twitching horse is the next best thing. Things are very slow in Winnipeg. But not as slow as on the Rock.

Keep supporting those Ice Caps. We have needed some of your players on recall basis as some of our guys have been injured.
Go Jets (Ice Caps) Go!

Wheeeeeeeeeee!

Sorry this subject has come up, but grateful is has. Grievences need to be aired or they fester. EVERYONE here brings something to the table! It would be a sad day to lose anyone. With age comes wisdom, and with that wisdom patience.

honda_silver wrote:

I believe you owe the Administrators ( and members ) an apology.

Remember the darkisde tire and larryinseattle fiasco?

I don't think too many apologies will be forthcoming around here.

bigbird wrote:

I'm still waiting for my apology when you, the administrator,reamed me out in public on this forum for something that should have been addressed in a PM.

Bigbird,

You posted ( and did not PM the member yourself ) telling another member to go away. You are the only one to ever tell another member to go away in the forum.

Since you chose to post publicly ... anyone who read your response might have believed they could do the same ( or worse ) even if edited later by an Administrator ... therefore my response was done publicly.

Your issue is not the response, but your belief that it should have been done in PM.

There are a lot of members here from other Forums that can tell you how some forums permanently deteriorated because a few members statements.

Anything that can negatively or permanently effect the Silverwing600 forum, will be dealt with publicly.

And you, the administrator, to this day still have larryinseattle's attack on me posted and available for anyone to read. He calls me stupid. How come that wasn't edited?
In case you forgot, here it is:

larryinseattle wrote:

"Let me give you a bit of advice. Just because you have an opinion, does not mean that the majority of forum members want to hear your sarcasm. You weren't asked to pop your mouth off, stupid..... you chose to. And you got a response you didn't like."

Just don't go telling John Grinsel to fix his faux pas before fixing your own. I would appreciate the line of larryinseattle calling me stupid be deleted, just like you deleted my statement telling him to "go away" AFTER he called me stupid.

Whatever did become of larryinseattle? I think he did "go away".

Terry,

I did go in some time ago and removed the word "stupid". I just checked the same post and it was removed with a moderator's note saying it was removed. I agree that no one should be called stupid or other names either. Thanks.

And can that be an end to it all?


PLEASE!

Waspie wrote:

And can that be an end to it all?


PLEASE!

Fine by me.

JeffR_ wrote:

Terry,

I did go in some time ago and removed the word "stupid". I just checked the same post and it was removed with a moderator's note saying it was removed. I agree that no one should be called stupid or other names either. Thanks.

Thanks Jeff.
The line was still in all quotes of larryinseattle's post, so of course when you deleted the original, it was still in every quote thereafter. I removed the whole quote where I could.

When the admin asked for John Grinsel's apology about using the phrase "forum Gestapo", the can of worms got opened all over again. Some members (John and myself) get publicly disciplined, others like larryinseattle didn't.
Not equitable.

I think this is funny----POWER lies with the administrators....probably makes up for other scooter/mc deficiencies. What happened to riding/wrenching having fun?----stupid is stupid in my book and should so be addressed. This is not church group, but should be riders from all kinds of backgrounds and views.....not everybody thinks car tires are good idea on single track 2 wheeler. Scooters are supposed to fun---who cares about form/format My way or the highway sucks. How many administrators are riding to Daytona?

Once again Waspie - I totally agree with you! Perhaps there is some way to lock this useless thread.... or delete it all together.

Trouble is, if a mod or admin locks the thread, he's likely to be accused of censorship at the very least.
It's a 'lose, lose' situation.
It's up to the protagonists to back off and accept injustice is all part of life's rich tapestry.