new purchase 2013---starting this over

I have made some progress towards 2013 purchase: at least narrowed field down: goal= all day comfort, no buffetting!

1. based on past experience with new SilverWing, can get to good comfort levels withGivi adjustablewindshield, Baker AirWings, other homemade stuff. Seat doesn't bother me, I don't think rider backrests are good idea. Like the Silver wheels and single front disk brake. Do not like Black color as probably a little unsafe in today's traffic filled with idiots. Bright yellow they might see. The other characteristics are known to me---GIVI rack and box work, familiar with tireselection and what to expect, drivetrain not the smoothest, lots of dealers, pretty good parts service, not fun to work on. Price on my local market=fine.no electric vest plug in or heated grips offered in this market as OEM. 2013 probably last year in US market.

2. I won't buy another Burgman 400. Buffeting difficult to fix. Price has gone up too much

3. Burgman 650---maybe ok for me, good dealer in Dalton GA---2013 price still not out, heavy but electric windshield. Driveline purchased new should last 50,000. RearWheel easy to get off, no belt changes.

4. Vespa---no dealers, nearest dealer 240 mile round trip, slow Italian parts service----but I like them in past, right windshield you , looking over are not beaten to death, small gas tank.

5. Kymco---not bad, there are dealers, parts a little cheaper, lower purchase price, 2 yr warranty, dealer right in town in Chattanooga

6. BMW GT600---dealer in my neighborhood, heavy/high/ugly. Kymco powered. Way overpriced! Dealer want $9800 to trade with my Burgman 400, 2011, 24,000 miles. I have been BMW owner since 1958.....way over-rated. Electric windshield nice but still buffeting in the look over position.

7. Last Yamaha majesty---good price, dated, lots of dealers.


So there is my list....I have purchased over 75 new bikes/scooters since 1955---so no virgin buyer. Right day/deal/right wild hair......SilverWing is probably strongest on my list-----age/convenience/strength makes step thru interesting-----I know a barge like GoldWing can be purchased on good deals, but they are heavy and use a lot of gas-----but stopping to pee in the wilds on dirt road in the mud, falling off stand not appealing.......and I don't want to think of putting one on my lift. Scooter still go on fine.

John,
I've been following your search on this and other websites. I am searching for a replacement for my GL1500, Norge, and R100GSPD. The ravages of aging in the form of painful joints and diminishing mobility have rendered these machines as too heavy, too uncomfortable, or too tall for continued safe riding.

Obviously the maxi scooter is a possible, if not probable answer. Under consideration is FSC600, the B400, and B650, (and possibly the FSC250 Reflex). In one form or another they all have flaws. The biggest to me is the varying degrees of maintenance complexity. I do my own work so ease of maintenance is important.

The narrative experiences of an owner/rider who has "been there and done it" is a valuable asset. So whatever you choose for 2013, please keep us posted.

I down sized from my wonderful GL1800 for much the same reason as erj175. I currently have a 2003 SW and a 2007 B650. I really like the Burgman 650 for riding and enjoy the extra features such as the mpg computer, air temperature gauge, great handling and quiet running. I also like the 450lb pay load which is considerably greater than the SW. That's what interested me in buying this scoot, riding two up and still not be overloaded as we are on the silverwing.
What I don't like is the amount of these scoots that have had transmission problems. The CVT belt replacement by a shop will run just a bit north of $3k. Some of the 650s on the BurgmanUSA forum have had to have a tranny rebuild at 30,000 miles. The other thing I don't like is doing maintenance on the bike. Changing spark plugs requires a bunch of plastic coming off and moving the radiator forward to get at them.

The SW isn't as smooth or quiet but it's nearly bullet proof and access to it's parts that need maintenance is much easier. True a SW will need four or five CVT belts to get to 100,000 miles but that's a LOT cheaper than a belt replacement on the Burgman.

I'm really torn on this deal, I would like to use the Burgman for long distance riding because it is a bit more comfortable and quiet but I don't know if I trust it that much. I have no doubt the SW can take me there and bring me home and if worse comes to worst on a trip it isn't that expensive to have even a Honda shop replace the belt.

It will take a bit of time for me to decide to keep both bikes or sell one. The original plan was to keep the B650 and sell the SW. At the moment I feel more like selling the newly bought Burgman and keep the SW.

I think the '12 Berg 650 had a GVWR of 1014 lbs and a wet weight of 614 lbs, giving weight capacity of 400 lbs.

The '12 Wing has 366 lbs capacity between wet weight and GVWR.

So there is 34 lbs in favor of the Berg. Better, but like almost all things with two wheels, still likely to be exceeded 2-up. It probably comes down to who has the bigger engineering safety factor in their calculation - Suzuki or Honda, as either is likely overloaded on a long 2-up tour (as are most touring bikes). I don't know the answer there. Either seems to work fine 2-up overloaded slightly, but of course one should never exceed manufacturer recommendations.

The figures from both bikes owners manuals give: SW 485 wet, max load 366 max total weight 851. B650 546 wet, max load 453 total 999. So the edge in payload for the Burgman is 87lbs which is significant. Part of it is probably due to the dual disk brakes on the front wheel of the B650. Braking load has a big part in calculating a vehicle's GVWR.

After thinking more about this transmission problem I think I had the right idea before in keeping both scooters. I tend to alternate riding them so that means the B650s mileage won't climb as fast as if I only had one. Rebuilding the transmission on the B650 if it comes to that is something I can do so I don't think the cost would be nearly as bad since it's mostly labor.

I know a bike will carry more than the rated load, there's always a fudge factor in the ratings since engineers know people will ask more from a machine than it's rated for. When riding two up I don't like to take the chances I will solo. If I could only have one scooter though it would be the SW. Besides my red SW is prettier than the white B650.

The 2012 Bergman curb (wet) weight on Suzuki's site is 613 lbs. The 2013 curb weight is less, 609 lbs. Are you looking at a different weight or a different year or possibly a different 650 (the V-storm 650 is about 546 lbs wet)? Of course Suzuki could also have errored on their site (wouldn't be the first time a vehicle manufacturer got it wrong online).

(Edit: Also, my '12 Wing is 551 lbs wet)

John, I am sure that you have checked back in with Southern Honda for their pricing but, just in case you haven't, I saw that they have lowered their advertised price on the 2012 Silverwing to $7,597.00. From reading some of your other post about prices they had given you sounds like they were giving you a better deal than their advertised price. It could be a good time to get back into the Silverwing business. I am watching your post with anticipation to see what you end up purchasing.

I understand that black is not a safe colour choice ,you could go to a sign shop and have a decal design using a reflective green pattern that would give you better visibility in day or night riding.A little mod can go a long way .

I've had a black Honda CN250 Helix, AN400, and 650 Burgmans, BMW R100/7, fully faired MZ ETZ 250, and a Honda NTV 650 Revere, I've also had a Mitsubishi Colt car in black, and Mrs M's Kia Rio and my Silver Wing are black. If it was an unsafe colour or there was a visibility problem I think I'd know about it by now, avoided it and chosen other colours.

The only black vehicle I wouldn't care to ride in is a hearse (especially if lying down). If find a black vehicle stands out very well when driving in snow!
Surely if black was an unsafe colour why did Henry Ford use only that colour on his Model T?

Cheers,

Boys , I was commenting on john's comment how he thought that black was a unsafe colour and how he could improve it to be more viable. I think black is beautiful ,other them water spots and dust will show up more. My 4x4 Tracker is bright canary yellow and my friends and neighbours can spot me a miles away .It keeps me on the good side of the law.

I prefer black, but you can always add reflective tape in key areas. This stuff here might be really cool...

http://www.tapeworks.com/GENERIC%20Images/5801fR.jpg

These guys have some cool stuff, also.

http://www.streetglo.net/prototypedecals.html

I would like to fine reflective Dart Vader helmet decal for the rear fender.

As the search continues for the ideal MC/Scooter, I looked at the new Honda NC700X. It has a feature that a scooter user might appreciate. Specifically, a large storage compartment where a motorcycle gas tank was once located. Ease of maintenance seems easier than most scooters (valve adjustment with screw & nut adjusters @ 8000 mi. intervals), easily accessed oil filter, and chain drive. Gas mileage is about the same as a B400. Off season prices have been in the $6500 range. In general the bike has been well received by the motorcycle press. The downside for me personally is that it borders on too tall.

Honda has barely allowed time for the NC to establish its market, when they next introduced the 2014 ctx700. It has the same frame/power plant layout as the NC but the seat height and cruiser ergos are more in line with the scooter market (a possible target group?). These are interesting times for "big red".

I have priced the NC700X----but the ctx700--I'd never ride a motorcycle with forward foot controls---How do you stand up on pegs and let legs do some of the work instead of spine? Somehow my spine has stood up under now near 300,000 miles of foot forward scooter....in this 23 years of rubberband drive/foot forward I also have purchased new K-75 BMW,Kawasaki Concours and Voyager, 2 CB750 Honda Night Hawks,Suzuki GS500E (rode it the most miles @64,000), etc. None of these were cruiser types.....and my body liked it.

NC700X and the other one are open chain---I got 43,000 out of chain and sprocket set on GS500E---AND set of cheap aftermarket chain and sprockets can be put together for under $100 when it is time---- lots of oil is the secret to long chain life=mess.

Monday I may stop at Honda shop to see what latest offer is on NC700 and I would never buy the dual clutch(automatic)---TIP: as you get older and maybe more shakey...a regular hand clutch gives you much more fine control in feet up U-turns on narrow roads. 74 comes in less than 60 days for me.---like the nut and screw valve adjust, too.

As to high seat---I have 30" in seam and shrinking-----Bikes are designed to be ridden feet up------it is only at HD and GoldWing rallies do you see people using their feet as paddles.

Would you consider a NT700V again?

Chris

John recently bought a Suzuki TU 250X.

On Nt700V----fine bike, production done, just as hard to work around plastic as maxi scooter----very good air management, left alone--heavy, nut and screw valve adjustment. I don't buy used as #1 I use bike and soon turn new into used #2 like riding on warranty. Gas mileage maybe a little better than SilverWing....same WalMart oil.