Question from Swedish Newbie

Hi all,

I am about to purchase a scooter for 2x25 m commuting daily, 15 m highway 60-65mph and 10m down town Stockholm traffic (read crowded). Commuting in the Stockholm area favours two wheelers in that down town parking is free, no road tolls and can use public bus lanes which a big difference in time when commuting. I also will use the scooter for some mid-length touring, hope fully with my wife on the pillion... I'm considering two scooters available now:

1) 2001 SW600, 29,000m with high Giwi screen, top box, handle bar heaters, Urbano Tucano leg cover and hand cuffs' (we are talking Scandinavia). It's getting close to the 32,000m expensive service (belt, valve inspection etc). Front and rear tires needs changing within soon. Service book looks good, as does the scoot itself. The 32,000 service costs 800USD, which is ¼ of the price of the bike - and argument for SW purchase price negotiations I guess).

2) 2001 Yamaha YP 250 Majesty, 12,000m with high screen and top box. New rear tire and newly serviced. The price is half that of the SW, though I have not yet inspected it, but probably nice considering mileage?

I have only tried the SW (the Yamaha is in another city...), and the SW was just fantastically smooth with nice purring power. Have way back owned a Vespa Primavera 125 and a Yamaha 400 glider style bike, both nice yet very different. Hence the added power would sit real nice considering highway driving and pillion.

My questions are:
- what about reliability and longevity Honda vs Yamaha, I easily put some 10,000m per year
- service costs
- am definitely prepared to do as much of the maintenance myself, however a bit scared for valve inspection which is coming up at 32,000. Will I be able - considering myself pretty handy

My heart tells me SW, but I guess my rationale mind says Majesty - tough.

Highly grateful for expert comments from this great forum (which to be honest it also would be great to be part of in a near coming future)


/Thanks in advance - Olof

I would not consider a 250 for 2 people touring.
The Silverwing has a recommended max passenger/gear weight of 386 lbs.
I have to guess that the 250 is significantly less.
Your wing candidate is coming with a lot of nice extras.
I don't even know if the tucano is available in a majesty size.
Hondas typically have a very good reliability reputation.
Good enough that not much has changed on the bike in 14 years.

Both good bikes and no wrong choice here. The SW is allot more bike with allot more performance and affords 2 up capability. The single cylinder 250 Yamaha is a good bike and would probably do everything you need it to do as a commuter scooter with better fuel mileage too. However, for riding 2up, I would not do it on a 250. I owned a 250 Honda Reflex and these bikes will do about 75mph max, riding solo. You probably need to sit on one and test ride it to see how it fits and feels. Bikes have a way of speaking to us so go see what they're telling you. Our opinions are paltry compared to real world testing on your own.

From what I've been told, Yamaha is more tedious to work on because of all the niggling stuff which must be removed before you get to what you need to do. On the other hand the SW is much easier to work on. I wouldn't be concerned about that 32,000 mile service. I have 95,000 miles on my 2003 SW and it has never had the valves checked or been in the shop for any of the "recommended" services --mainly because of my limited budget and the dealer's high service charges. I do all my own service work in my tiny cramped garage/shed. I've found that, inevitably, I know more about the SW than any of the dealer service managers or technicians I've spoken with.

Just buy a Factory Service Manual (FSM) off eBay, replace the tires, change the belt, change the oil and filter, and buy a set of OEM brake pads to keep on hand. Those aftermarket EBC brake pads seem to want to eat the brake rotors. Oh, and you might want to get a set of Parking Brake pads too. Those you can get on ebay much cheaper that OEM. The Park Brake pads are thin as tissue paper to begin with and, inevitably, you're going to ride off some day with the PB still applied --we've all done it. The PB is not meant to stop the scoot at speed the way the regular brake pads do, they are only meant to "encourage" the scoot not to roll when it's parked. So go with the ebay pads. Well that's my 2¢; HTH

Tim

Olof welcome to the best Silverwing forum on the web. I agree with the others about the Silverwing, but did you really think a Silverwing forum would suggest something different?
If you want to learn about the Silverwing you'll find you can do anything you need or want with the service manual and help from this forum.
I add the paragraph below for most new members because there's a lot of information in the links and may save you some work.
Here are some links(3 below in blue)that will help you learn a lot about your Silverwing. If you can't find what you need in the links below the search on this forum works good, and if you still need help just ask and someone will do what they can to answer your questions.

Maintenance, Tips and Hints
Maintenance "Pictorials"
[url=https://www.silverwing600.com/f5-accessories-

Dear dspevack, Dan, CJ and CosmicJumper,

Many thanks for your feedback - and yes, what else was to be suspected asking my question on this very forum Since I really like the SW, from design, and all that Ive read about the scooter - I don't dare posting a similar question to a Majesty forum..

Taken all your wise comments into account, I just gave a bid (price minus the expected service costs - although I'll for sure do them myself) and see what happens.

Thank you very much again, and hope to be part of the larger SW team within soon.
/Olof

Welcome Olof! It's hard to beat the SW. If you intend to do serious commuting a two cylinder engine is much better, less vibration, more power though it does use a bit more fuel. SWs are pretty easy to work on for those parts that need replacing, belts, variator rollers, tires and brakes. I think you will be well served by the SW and hope your offer is accepted.

BTW EBC organic brake pads work well on the Goldwing and on Silverwings without damaging rotors. It's the sintered metal ones to avoid. They are great for racing but do wear the rotors faster than the organic pads. Honda OEM pads are organic.

If you get a 600, you will probably not go back to a 400 unless you wanted to save fuel or ever felt vertically challenged with the hundred pound heavier SW. Having just come from a Goldwing, I'm trying to get used to how small and light the SW feels to me. Hope your bid is accepted and you're commuting soon with that scooter grin.

Don't know how it is in your country but here, scooters don't get allot of respect from other riders? The general public loves them though and don't be surprised if folks walk up in gas stations and ask you about your "moped". Many think we're riding 50cc scooters than go 45mph. I used to be quick to defend the mighty scooter and state it's top speed and now I just chuckle inside with amusement.

I got railroaded off a Goldwing forum because I ride a scooter and was rather vocal about it. Seems like some of the larger touring bikes like Goldwings and Harley's act like they're king of the road and give little credence or respect to scooters. Funny how that pecking order works as Harley riders joke about Goldwings. To me though, we're all on 2 wheels having fun.

DanB - Check out Steve Saunders Goldwing website. I'm one of the top posters there and have been on that forum for over 12 years. They all know I no longer have a Goldwing and am riding mostly on maxi scooters but have received only interest in the scooter. Bunch of people there who are very accepting. I don't knock GWs because I still think they're the greatest highway bike ever built but age and a 900lb. bike aren't a good combination for me. Be sure to check out that site but of course stay here where scooters are the way to go. I'm appreciative of the folks here that they accept me with my BMW scooter. But then I might have to get another SW as a stable mate for that BMW. The bad part of this scooter business is there are quite a few different makes and models that are all fun rides.

I'm still a member of the Saunders forum and get a birthday note from them every year. They have allot of information about taking care of your GW. Never got chummy with anyone there in the social way like I did with the Goldwing Owners forum. Actually one of the moderators didn't like me and doesn't like scooters. So, perhaps it's unfair to brand the forum as being anti scooter. I like this forum thiugh and looks like a good bunch here and hope to meet some of you sometime.

Yipieeeh - offer accepted, and I'm now a very happy and proud SW owner. Scooter to be picked up tomorrow morning in wonderful spring sun.

David, here in Sweden, there is a slight tendency from some few street bike guys, looking down on scooters. However in Southern Europe, you barely see a bike for all the scooters, 50 - 650cc. The same trend is coming up here in Scandinavia where scooters and also quadros (two front wheels and don't need bike drivers license) are for sure expanding quickly. Just chatted with a friend on advise, who used to ride an off-road bike, now though HD rider, who without a second thought said that for commuting and weekend trips, scooter is the only obvious thing - I think that's the general quite rationale and practical approach most bikers have over here.

Having lived and worked three years in Indianapolis with the very noticeable car and bike culture there, it is obvious that the more macho style - size, horse powers and guns - is quite far from European culture and style. I loved it over there, but still get horrified remembering guys in shorts, no helmet and a pair of sun glasses racing down the highway at 100+ mph on a bike.
Where I aiming for touring, I might aim for a GW as well, or perhaps a bit more down town practical ST 1100/1300 Pan European - brilliant bikes.

Olof wrote:

Yipieeeh - offer accepted, and I'm now a very happy and proud SW owner. Scooter to be picked up tomorrow morning in wonderful spring sun.

Great news!!!

Hi Olof,
I don't mind others on "real" motorcycles looking down on my 08 SWing. I ride with several people here in Minnesota and surprised the heck out of them the first time we took off and I kept up with them with no problems. The SWing surprises a lot of people who have never been up close to one.

Happy to hear you got the SW Olof! Now you can keep us posted on how you and the Silverwing take to each other. Good luck with your new ride!

Cosimc_Jumper,
Thanks for the tip on a repair manual. I found very relevant ones, though in German which would be a bit of a hassle. Looking for English versions I scanned e-Bay manuals and have two questions:
1) My SW is 2001, the manuals I found are 2002 and onward - guess no real difference?
2) My model ID is FJS 600 while I understand that the U.S. Model is FSC - once again no difference?

Last but now least, my understanding is that would there be a valve issue, the consequences of skipping could be rather significant. Just to make myself a bit calmer - you haven't heard of anyone that has ran into issues like that? From trying to scan through key forum posts, some people point to the potential problems that could arise, though no one explicitly tells about a real problem ever have happened. I do think that's key, especially since I found the poll (though not too many voters) pointing to the fact that quite few actually do skip this part of the service...

/Olof

The 2001 model was never imported into the US. However there shouldn't be any difference between the  2001 and 2002 model. There was an ECM change on the 2003 and again in 2008.

Mechanically all years and both models are the same, though the FJS has little lights at the upper corner of the headlights, speedo/odo reading in KM and a different wire harness. The FSC model doesnt have those little lights in the headlight housing, has reflectors mounted on the fork tubes and rear mudguard, and the speedo/odo is in Miles.

Regarding the valves; I have never seen a report that said, "I didn't get my valves checked and my engine was destroyed". There is a chapter in the FSM for checking the valves --which seems to be a genuine PITA. However, the curve ball with that is, what can you do with that information? If the valves need to be adjusted you'll need to reassemble everything and take scoot to the dealer (~$500) because they are the only ones who have the assortment of shims to correct the valve setting.

Don't worry, be happy. And do send us a photo of you and the scoot from Nordkap.

Tim

Tim our local dealer tells me to check the valves then bring the measurements and your old shims to them. Then they keep your old shims and sell you the sizes you need for $5.

Thanks again Tim - and model28,
I'll skip the valve inspection for now at least, focusing on the more critical belt and oil changes. And indeed, I've understood that the valve inspection is somewhat of an "adventure" and I feel too insecure getting into that kind of work. Further, I found an FSC 2002-2003 service manual on e-Bay that I'll order - Thanks for model clarification, I'm impressed by your wealth of SW knowledge!

Nordkap needs to wait a bit, I'm heading for Gotland first a very beautiful Island in the Baltic Sea - pic to come.
Many thanks again!

Somehow anything in the Baltic sea seems to remind me of those dreary landscapes from Ingmar Bergman films.

Indeed Cosmic_Jumper, I'm going to that very island (Fårö). Personally I think the landscape is beautiful, though special - but pretty sure that his films, 'story' and the way they were shot, add a lot of impressions which indeed can make you feel a bit dreary... Impressed that you connected Ingemar B's films with Gotland!

Any coastal area can be made to look dreary and cold because most northern area have weather that can be pretty dismal. I lived in Southeastern Alaska for over twenty years. I flew over the coast for years and sailed my ketch through most of the coves and inlets of SE. It can be very grey, drizzly and downright disheartening in the winter and fall and early spring. Well, actually it can be dismal just about any time of the year. But it is one of the most beautiful areas in the world in good weather. I'd think the Scandinavian area would be just the same. Beautiful on the rare, warm sunny days but in cold drizzle not so much. I've never found anywhere in that can't be beautiful at times unless it's in the built up urban areas.