Final Drive Oil

Spent sometimes reading the owner's manual of my 2008 Swing. Not able to find the recommended oil, the changing intervals, and the quantity required for the final drive.

I understand this question may have been asked a lot. But this poor soul really wanted to know. Thank you.

Here's a tutorial from the other Silverwing site.

I have no reason to doubt the facts but use it at your own risk!

http://silverwing.org/mwf/attach/85/25485/FinalDriveOilChange.pdf

Hi,

I did that Pictorial and it is on this site too. Just make sure you rotate the tire after you drain the oil. I forgot to put that in the Pictorial when I did it. You will be able to get some more oil out of the bike too.

Sorry Jeff I should have checked for availability on here first.

Thank you Jeff,

So either gear oil or engine oil will work? How come I could not find anything in the owner's manual? Strange.

The reason it's not mentioned in the owners manual is because Honda doesn't want YOU doing it. They want you to take it to the stealership for this simple operation.

thomphoto wrote:

The reason it's not mentioned in the owners manual is because Honda doesn't want YOU doing it. They want you to take it to the stealership for this simple operation.

You got the point there. Then they should at least mention that you need to take your ride to stealer at 300 miles, 500 miles, etc. Or the bike is going to blow or something.

Without mentioning this anywhere would just lead me to believe that I don't have to do anything to it. If I am not a member of this forum. The final drive oil might just as well be neglected.

Wow, I get it. The stealer then can charge an arm and leg to replace the whole unit. Very smart, very smart.

I only found out about changing the final drive oil after I got on the Silverwing.org forum. Luckily, it was just about 2 years since I got the swing, when it was due to be changed.

How many miles on the meter? What did you used? Gear oil or motor oil?
Got my 2008 last week. 2310 miles on the meter. The previous owner was able to provide receipt for oil and oil filter change. Not the final drive oil change. So I am thinking about changing the final drive oil in the next couple days. Any info will be really appreciated.

Cornishman,

I think I may start a totally seperate topic for "Pictorials" only. That way they will be easier to find for those that want to use them. We have others that have provided pictures and instructions so we could start a library that way. I was looking around for them just to see how easy they are to find here and it isn't as easy as I hoped, when I started the seperate topics when this forum was new. So I think I will do that.

JeffR wrote:

Cornishman,

I think I may start a totally seperate topic for "Pictorials" only. That way they will be easier to find for those that want to use them. We have others that have provided pictures and instructions so we could start a library that way. I was looking around for them just to see how easy they are to find here and it isn't as easy as I hoped, when I started the seperate topics when this forum was new. So I think I will do that.

That's a wonderful idea. You are the man Jeff. Thanks.

Good idea Jeff, I think that's a winner.

Bob

JeffR wrote:

Cornishman,

I think I may start a totally seperate topic for "Pictorials" only. That way they will be easier to find for those that want to use them. We have others that have provided pictures and instructions so we could start a library that way. I was looking around for them just to see how easy they are to find here and it isn't as easy as I hoped, when I started the seperate topics when this forum was new. So I think I will do that.

I have written a couple How-To instructions no pictures (I am waiting for JeffR to add pictures ) ... but the instructions (I hope) are very clear.

Could we label it a "How-To" or "Self-maintenance instruction" sections ... just in case someone does not have pictorials??

It would help if the topics would be locked to prevent discussion ... a separate thread would allow discussion ... then if additional "key" maintenance points are later found/determined then it could be added to the very minimal thread ... which would be really short to read?

One more question (sorry ). Now I am pretty confidence to do this SIMPLE project. I have the oil, have the long nose oil can. Now, some said that those 2 washers better to be replaced in the process. I would like to do that if I could. Anybody knows the exact size, and kind.
I tried to get info from the online OEM parts fiche without success. Can the regular 8MM washer from the Home Depot or Lowe's do the trick? Thanks.

If you're careful in removing the washers, I don't think you need to replace them every time you change the final drive oil.
Same with the rubber o ring when you change the engine oil, it's good for several changes before you need to replace it.

Final Drive Oil Recommended By Honda:

Recently bought a new 2009 Silverwing.

Page 3-16 or the 2002-2009 Service Manual calls for Pro Honda GN$ 4-stroke oil or equivalent

API service classification SG or higher.

JASO T903 Standard: MA

Viscosity 10W-30.

This information is repeated on Page 3-2 of this same manual.

Jim from Stanwood, WA

sw2009 wrote:

Final Drive Oil Recommended By Honda:

Recently bought a new 2009 Silverwing.

Page 3-16 or the 2002-2009 Service Manual calls for Pro Honda GN$ 4-stroke oil or equivalent

API service classification SG or higher.

JASO T903 Standard: MA

Viscosity 10W-30.

This information is repeated on Page 3-2 of this same manual.

Jim from Stanwood, WA

Thank you Jim,

I am waiting for my service manual. Looks like a nice manual.
You have a good day.

You don't want to use gear oil unless actual hypoid gears are involved, but I have no idea what's inside there.

I'd suggest 10w30 synthetic.

chieninhouston wrote:

Spent sometimes reading the owner's manual of my 2008 Swing. Not able to find the recommended oil, the changing intervals, and the quantity required for the final drive.

I understand this question may have been asked a lot. But this poor soul really wanted to know. Thank you.

7/27/10 Bought an 03 recently and called my local Honda Service Dept. He said they use "Honda Gear Oil" - whatever that is. Smell the stuff that you drain out - gear oil has a distinctive smell.

x

mickey wrote:

You don't want to use gear oil unless actual hypoid gears are involved, but I have no idea what's inside there.

I'd suggest 10w30 synthetic.

The gears in the final drive are strait cut gears. and thus would be in the gear oil category. (from 35 yrs of Industrial maintenance perspective)

I use synthetic 75w90 oil in mine.

When looking into this swap, I found that the specs (pour viscosity) for gear oils and motor oils are a different chart. but in one article it showed that when comapred side by side that the 75w90 gear oil has slmost the same specs as 10w40 motor oil. So is compatible as far as wear protection. Also gear oil doesn't have an additive (brain freeze) that is detrimental to brass based thrust washers. So it is better for gears.

Edit: do a search for "gear oil vs. motoroil" and you can find it for yourself.

Hope this helps.

MaxB ( who lost a lot of esoteric data when PC died recently)

I have a opinion that Honda did the 10w30 motor oil recommendation, for people that may not have gear oil available.
But they do have that little extra motor oil left from changing the engine oil. it only takes like 3-4 oz. to do the tranny. And we all have that much left after an oil change on the engine.
What do you think????

MaxB (who is thinking too much)

Another one of my 'For what it's worth' comments...

I had a 1988 Honda Accord with a manual transmission. You were supposed to replace the transmission oil every 30k miles. Guess what the replacement recommendation was? 10W-30 motor oil... the same stuff that went into the crankcase. I put in 10W-30 Synthetic oil (Mobile 1), and it stayed in there for the balance of 200,000 miles. Never had a problem, and that was the smoothest shifting transmission I ever had.

I don't think that the service manual recommendation for the final drive oil is an accident.

I use Honda 30 oil in my final drive it is a 2005 as recommended in the service book. I have changed mine two times and just turned 16000 miles. To fill mine I use a bottle made of nylon plastic material like you dispense catsup or mustard. It holds a cup and one half when full...
Old Dave

I use Amsoil (synthetic; that's all they make) 10-40 and a pump type oil can. Seems to work alright.

First, hi everybody from Spain (EUROPE).I have a SW400 (I think in EEUU SW only 600).AT the Spanish SW400 2006 owner manual (european I think)recommended 10w40 synthetic oil:
https://i.servimg.com/u/f37/16/07/39/53/image011.jpg

Hi Everyone,

Been reading the final drive oil recommendation thread with great interest.

I am going to perform this task very soon, can someone tell me please the amount of 10w-30 oil needed?

Just keeping filling it until it starts to seep out of the hole where you fill it with oil. The amount is 10oz but just keep filling it up until it drips out.

Many thanks Jeff.

I have a few pictures in my motorcycle album showing the Oil holes with the plastic covers off.
https://picasaweb.google.com/Safier/Motorcycles#

I had a level check question but it was answered by the link that appeared earlier but I just saw. I'm in cluding it because it is so useful
https://i.servimg.com/u/f37/16/07/39/53/image011.jpg

The final drive holds 10 oz of oil. Just keep filling it until it starts to seep back out and you know you have just enough.

My manual transmission Ford Ranger 5 speed takes, wait for it . . . . . . . . . . . . . automatic transmission fluid. Because its thinner than gear oil, and does the same thing. I made the mistake of putting gear oil in it and it was sluggish, it was taking to much of what little power it had to slog through the molasses of the thick oil. Im guessing that is why Honda wants you to use motor oil, makes sense to me.

I put amsoil 10/40 synth in the gear case, and i will probably never have to mess with it again.

chieninhouston wrote:

Spent sometimes reading the owner's manual of my 2008 Swing. Not able to find the recommended oil, the changing intervals, and the quantity required for the final drive.

I understand this question may have been asked a lot. But this poor soul really wanted to know. Thank you.

Sorry! Honda just won't convince me that 10W30 motor oil will do the job lubricating gears! I use nothing but Amsoil 80W90 synthetic gear oil. Your transmission will thank you!

x

x

x

Never doubt what Honda tells us to do in the owners manual and maintenance manual. They know what they are doing so don't try to second guess them with all of your own ideas. It will only lead to problems and costly ones at that.
Old Dave in Western Nebraska

Just a note on my drive oil experience.

My 2002 SW Service Manual recommends the Honda GN-4 10W-40 - pg 3-16 - no surprise there.

My 2002 SW has experienced vibration starting out and the corresponding plastic vibration - new belt and 16K service performed at 12K this Spring and given clean bill of health.

After reading this post of drive oil, took off covers and looked at belt and such - almost no dust inside from this years riding and all looked OK -decided to check the drive oil and it didn't look right to me [changed last year and used Honda GN-4 10W-40 - about 3k miles ago]. Drained the oil and it appeared like it had broken down - following Big Bird I used my Shell Rotella T 15W-40 JASO-MA oil for the refill.

Can't explain it but the vibration has all but disappeared and much much smoother starting out - will monitor next Spring again because riding will end shortly here. I do intend to shorten my drive oil maintenance intervals which is listed as every 2 years.

I am much happier with my SW and been riding it more than my Scarabeo now.

Rick V

x

Big Bird,
I agree totally - changing the drive oil should not have changed anything with the clutch or belt - I did take off the aluminum drive cover to expose the belt and have done so about 4 times before - there is evidence of belt slap on the bottom of that cover and was the first time so don't know if new belt is flexing that much - I was slightly surprised that there was virtually no belt dust inside. Put everything back together as I have in the past.
Also, performed oil and filter change - replaced Castrol 10W-40 Synthetic with Valvoline 10W-40 4T Motorcycle oil which has the JASO-MA standard. The Castrol was the previous owners recommendation but always thought there was a little excessive engine noise though no oil usage. Believe the engine has quieted down a bit so happy there and about having better high rpm valve protection.

BTW, still riding here in MN - in 50's yesterday; was out last Saturday with morning temp at 30 but with sunshine. Not ready to put the scoots away just yet.

Rick V

I was out today and went to my local Honda shop. I asked about changing the final drive oil in my Silverwing, They said to use 80w-90 hypoid gear oil. I got a quart it was $12.99. It is Bel-Ray brand, It does not seem to be much thicker then 10-40 or so motor oil.

Any thoughts ? Thanks !

The Silverwing takes the same oil for the final drive as the engine takes. In fact it will use just about what is left of the third quart after an oil change.

After changing the final drive oil and useing 75-90 gear oil I noticed foaming, so I switched back to 10w30 motor oil, absolutely no foam

pauldeere wrote:

... I noticed foaming...

How did you NOTICE foaming? Open the fill port and see foam oozing out?

Took the side cover off to clean the air intake filter that I had forgot, thought I would recheck the final drive oil that I had changed the day before, taking out the high point fill plug the oil oozed out I immediately noticed that the oil was FOAMY..........The gear oil that I used was 75-90 Rotella non synthetic.......

pauldeere wrote:

taking out the high point fill plug the oil oozed out I immediately noticed that the oil was FOAMY..........The gear oil that I used was 75-90 Rotella non synthetic.......

Because you overfilled the final drive, not because it was gear oil.

Whatever..........

pauldeere wrote:

Whatever..........

You're welcome.

rollsroyce250 wrote:

pauldeere wrote:

taking out the high point fill plug the oil oozed out I immediately noticed that the oil was FOAMY..........The gear oil that I used was 75-90 Rotella non synthetic.......

Because you overfilled the final drive, not because it was gear oil.

Um, just a question. If you fill the final drive until oil weeps out the filler hole...how do you overfill it?

GHM-PM wrote:

Um, just a question.  If you fill the final drive until oil weeps out the filler hole...how do you overfill it?

That's an easy one.
You can add oil into the hole a lot faster than the oil can drain out.
How do you fill the final drive? Not by gravity, but by pressure. How does the oil drain out? By gravity.
Make sense?