2012 Honda 700cc Super Scooter

honda integra 700cc parallel twin scooter will be at the milan bike show in november
claimed 77mpg what do fellow silverwing riders think of this scooter, would you buy one to replace your silverwing?if it is not over priced!!!

drool.

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/News/newsresults/New-bikes/2011/September/sep2611-honda-lauches-new-77mpg-700cc-parallel-twin-family-integra-super-scoot/

We'll have to see won't we, remember all the excitement when the Honda DN-01 came out, and this could be more of the same. It's not a step thru' or feet forward either, and the top case and panniers look a bit stingy on storage. It's got a chain that's not enclosed so it won't appeal to a lot of maxi and shaft drive enthusiats, and all these points and others are currently being discussed on other forums.

I don't want one, and if Honda UK have the SW 600-T in the 2012 or 2013 line up that would interest me more, but my Silver Wing has enough stuff on it for my touring needs, and I can't see any reason to change.

Doesn't bother me- imagine not having to change that belt every 16,000 miles, and most likely the storage will be an option. Technically speaking my 2003 Swing is a dinosaur and I would love to step up to the new tech (if i can afford it).

J

x

At the price point of probably near $12,000. I have no interest.

I already have new NT that does job well and is troublefree.

Scooter=step thru to me.

Sideopening saddle bags-----gravity in my world lets stuff fall to the ground when you open.

Chain?

One of the reasons why the Honda Deauville like Mr Grinsel has always sold well in the UK is because it has virtually maintenance-free shaft drive. For thousands of UK riders there's no 'riding season', just winter riding, and having to clean, lube, adjust chains during the cold shorts days as well as trying to keep corrosion at bay is just a pain in the arse. While a drive chain is an efficient means of power transmission, and they have improved over the years, manufacturers still won't enclose them as they don't looky 'sporty' enough. Let's forget about sports bike riders too, they generally don't ride in the winter, but the lads whose bike is their only means of transport do, they have to get to work, and a quick look round any city bike park will show drive chains in various states of neglect, and rear wheels covered in flung off grease and grime.

Getting back to those Deauville riders, you can bet they don't want to go back to chains again, and they are some of the riders Honda would like to see on this new Honda... which has chain drive.

A lot of positives in terms of appearance, Larger wheels are a big plus and it looks like performance will be good. Hopefully it will be lighter in weight than the Swing.

However, unless it's an optical illusion those side bags look pretty useless, they LOOK extremely narrow. If no under seat storage, luggage capacity will be a big issue.

Not having step thru configuration will rule out many older riders who moved to Swing and others for this very reason.

would I buy one? Probably not at what will no doubt be a pretty high price. In 2 or 3 years a used one might be tempting

Honda, PLEASE put a proper windshield on these things, wider and adjustable.

Chris

Don't worry Chris,
Paniers and top cases are usually optional, and within 6 months GIVI will have alternatives for all of it, and a better windscreen too.

I can't say I would jump on the idea of selling the Silverwing in favor of it, but If I were to buy a new bike, and had the choice of it or the Swing, it would probably not be as easy a decision.

Of course...Im still partial to the DN-01.

Dan

On the 'Dullville' there is a choice of panniers from Honda so there will probably be the same for the Integra. For me I am happy to put the valuable and things I don't want to lose in hard panniers. Things that are easily replaceable and wouldn't spoil a trip if I had to buy replacements I would happily carry in soft luggage (as long as I can keep it dry). On a trip my tent, sleeping bag, brewing gear go somewhere safe. Day clothes (underpants, t-shirts etc) can be bought anywhere.

I shall be looking to see when the new scooter is in the showroom in England. If I get one it won't be replacing the Silverwing but become another 'stable-mate'.

Cheers

I have no idea why "they" (whoever they are) refer to this thing as a "scooter" when it is not a step thru. If I wanted a non-scooter, and had to spend about 12K dollars, I suspect that I'd buy a Yamaha or Kawasaki cruiser in the 1200 - 1800 cc size. No thanks, Honda. :flower:

I dont know... If i had to replace my Swing (2006) I would definitely consider this. I like having the bigger wheels and side saddles. heck, i don't consider the Swing a true step thru.. its quite high already but i think they did a good job overall.

The windscreens seems taller bu still narrow i agree, but aftermarket is only one click away.

I do want more power and having a dual clutch automatic motorcycle (likie the aprilla MANA 850) is a good option.

I think Honda NEEDS to up the cc on this. BMW, Kymco jointly will have the 700cc Downtown soon and with Suzuki rumors of a 850 burgman on the sideline just waiting... Honda needs to get a 1000cc in there

Still, i would seriously consider one if it gets to canada.

My 2 canadian cents

The final product will be highly interesting. Like the others here, I don't see myself running over to my nearest Honda dealer to pre-order one. But...I see it shaking the market up. And that will be good.

I see this new scooter as taking direct aim at the Burgman 650 in terms of power and technical goodies. Many Burgman 650 owners want more power. If Honda puts a "motorcycle" 700cc engine in it, and not a "scooter" 700cc engine, it will provide the power they are looking for without needing the 900-1000ccs they think they "need". The larger wheels are also things current B650 owners are asking for. The transmission (with the exception of the chain) should appeal to the gadget lust of some 650 owners. In this case, they are getting all this from Honda, not Suzuki.

There's no info that I've seen for horsepower, nor dimensions. The step through looks high, but what it actually is in comparison to other maxi-scooters will be interesting. The B650 also has a high step through.

I'm pleased to see the gas mileage as high as they are saying. That even beats what I get from my Burgman 400 at mid-60s. They are doing something innovative to get gas mileage like that...especially since many cars can beat the gas mileage that you find on motorcycles even though they are moving 3-4 times the weight.

Chris

Does not seem to be very practical, in terms of getting on and off the bike. Tall center and back trunk make it a bit of a challange for some to get on it easily.

More motorcycle then scooter too, I think. Technically seems great and probably a great ride.

But I am not quite sure it's comparable to the current scooters. I personally prefer my 2004 Dinosaur...

But that's me...

I know, Dan and while I can't argue the Paniers as everyone wants/needs different sizes, They should get the windshield right the first time - wind tunnel testing, etc. We shouldn't have to spend an additional $200+ on a new bike just to get a decent windshield. Just my oponion.

dspevack wrote:

Don't worry Chris,
Paniers and top cases are usually optional, and within 6 months GIVI will have alternatives for all of it, and a better windscreen too.

I can't say I would jump on the idea of selling the Silverwing in favor of it, but If I were to buy a new bike, and had the choice of it or the Swing, it would probably not be as easy a decision.

Of course...Im still partial to the DN-01.

Dan

Yes. while the Silverwing is a good touring scooter, it has suffered from limited real attention from Honda. Minor cosmetic updates, and a simple software update to integrate closed loop tuning (something most bikes have had for a very long time) dates the unit. Dont get me wrong, i love my Silverwing, but in the world of motorcycles, and touring specifically, it is , at best a basic, medium displacement, touring scooter. After 10 years of production, there is effectively still little, if any aftermarket support for the platform, something that is looked for and prized by the industry as being a leading indicator of a socially accepted design, the Silverwing, for all its pluses, does not enjoy this support. It is time Honda stepped it up a few notches in the touring scooter game. The DN-01 never really caught on with anyone (sorry, but its true). Taking the technology from the DN-01 and applying it to a true step through touring scooter design seems a natural engineering progression and i applaud it heartily. Im all for a bigger better Silverwing type design.
Like i said, i love my Silverwing.
Can it be better? Yes.
Is this new design the one? Perhaps.

bigbird wrote:

Very attractive and sporty looking.
I particularly like the SOHC engine with no more shim valve adjustment. This one has much more user friendly screw and jam nut adjustment.
It's not a hydrostatic trans like the DN0-1, but a dual clutch manumatic. I would prefer the hydrostatic, because the dual clutch relies on preprogrammed software to shift in regular automatic mode. If it's anything like the DCT in the VFR1200, no thanks. That one shifts into sixth gear by the time you're doing 40 mph. If you leave it in sport mode, it winds out to high revs before shifting. However, the promo blurb says it's an adaptive trans, which learns shift patterns from your riding style. That sounds OK. Beware the claims of 77 mpg. That's with the trans in econo mode, and nobody will like motoring around town in 6th gear.
Exposed chain final drive? That's OK. The chain will go longer than the 16k mile belt on the Swing. John Grinsel will like the ease of rear tire removal.
Large wheels? Very good for stability and smooth ride.
Narrow Honda stock windscreen? That still sucks.
No trailing front axle and hopefully triple trees instead of frame mounted pinch bolts.
Overall, it's so different from the Swing, and in an entirely different category.
Time will tell.
This baby won't be cheap like the Swing.

I agree with everything you say. One thing that pops into my head is: What exactly are the parameters that make a motorcycle a scooter? Im guessing that a pass thru design is a given, but is anything else a "must" to be called a scooter?

The truth of the matter is that while the categorization of a "scooter" and what it is, is a point of agreement, it is not really the important point.

The fact is that the Silverwing or the Burgman or any other such machines, have certain characteristics that made them preferred by some, why did any one who has one, buy a Silverwing for example? Probably different reasons for each, but I can see that in my case I really like:

1. Getting on and off the bike.
2. Automatic transmission
3. Lightness of the holding it up, ease of moving it around, in short low center of gravity.
4. Underseat and all the other storage areas.
5. Weather protection for legs and part of the body.
6. Ease to ride
7. Beautiful body work, lines, etc.
8. I love the brakes and find that the linked brakes are actually a plus for me, powerful and secure.
9. Space to move the legs and feet around.

there are other factors but they are common to any bike really, like fun riding.

I think these above are specific points that go back to my old Vespa actually, and one of the reasons I liked it so much.

Power and speed were never my goal and are not now.

They surely could upgrade the Silverwing but I guess it is not economical to them, meaning that probably this was never a major source of cash for Honda... hence they are trying another route. This new model might be better in some respects, but it seems more similar to a conventional motorcycle then a Silverwing replacement.

My two cents...

For as long as I can remember, scooter fans have been saying that automatic CVT transmissions were the future. Each and every technological advancement in transmissions leads to talk about how we would see bikes go the route of cars to where the auto is far more common that the manual. I'm still waiting. Judging by the reader comments under the article ("Oh no, not another scooter!") our concept of the bike we all love has a long way to go before becoming mainstream.
I'm with many others in saying "Why didn't they execute this perfectly?" Or more accurately, "Why not just beef up and improve the Silver Wing?" You know, standard Hyperpro springs, better laid out underseat storage, less weight, improved windshield, optional panniers and maybe even something like a Power Commander controlling the engine. In other words find a way to negate the need for just about every common aftermarket mod S-Wing & other maxi owners do to the bike. Burgman, T-Max, Majesty, Piaggio and Kymco owners will all be coming in droves, S-Wing owners will be trading up, and just maybe, you'd even get new converts from M/C's and cars. Sounds lucrative to me.
There once was an intelligent British bloke frequenting BurgmanUSA who had a history in design, and he said that these bikes could be made with better gas economy, less heft & cc's and still be designed with ample storage and power and I believe him.

I have my doubts about the length of life of the chain; GP800 owners have found the bike eats chains and sprokets in no more time than the average belt lasts and they are a good deal more expensive to replace,
I do like the lokk of the new Honda but as haqs been said, the non-scooter features mean I won't be getting one, even if I could afford it.

I'm not going to pontificate;

Don't like it.

I like the engine size!!!!

An additional release with a bit more information about the engine:
http://www.bikersclub.me/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=13026:&Itemid=43

Personally I don't have a problem with the step-through, but there again I am young, fit and agile! :lol!:
800cc would be nice though, considering my mate has his eye on a VFR1200.

Cheers,

Looks like a cross betwwen the Dullsville (an excellent bike) and the VFR with a SWing seat on the top, it's not for me as I really appreciate the step thro' but I must admit a bit more oomph would be nice. The dual clutch transmission has had variable write-ups and I suspect that naked chains are a lot cheaper than shafts.
Do Honda design these things as a result of rider demand/opinion or do they dream them up and hope that we will buy them (a la DN-01) ????

I like the overall look of the bike. I like the larger wheels and I like the larger engine. It will be interesting to see the actual engine performance data (hp and torque). I don't mind the higher center console - with my long legs I should still be able to step over it and even if I couldn't, that wouldn't be a deal breaker for me. I'm not sure how much underseat storage this bike has, but as long as I can stow a XXL full face helmet and jacket under the seat or in the topcase, then it probably has adequate storage for my needs. Whether or not I would buy one would depend on how it actually feels when I sit on one. I look forward to seeing one when they become available.

I haven't read the whole thread, but that won't hinder my putting in my dos centavos. Put the 700 engine in my Silverwing and I would be interested. As for the rest of it. No Thank You.

MCN say Honda are also going to use the same 700cc parallel twin engine in a naked roadster and an adventure bike, with the Integra scooter the first of the trio to come on the market.

Dale wrote:

I haven't read the whole thread, but that won't hinder my putting in my dos centavos. Put the 700 engine in my Silverwing and I would be interested. As for the rest of it. No Thank You.

Seriously? You are satisfied with the SilverWings' inefficient transmission / final drive system?

I understand the apprehension many have about the chain drive, but a true automatic transmission that puts way more HP to the rear wheel (a 17" wheel at that) and no more need for sliders/rollers or aftermarket clutch or JCosta or Power Commander?

There is no need for sliders/rollers or aftermarket clutch or J Costa or Power Commander is there, mine can go two up at 80+ mph all day on German autobahns with it's inefficient transmission/ final drive system, and I'm sure yours can handle the Interstates just as well. It's a twist n' go scooter, so ride it and enjoy it. I'm going to stick my neck out and say that adding all that stuff seems to be an American thing. There's lots of Silver Wing riders on the other forum I spent time on, and they tend to change the screen to an Airflow, stick a top box on the back and that's usually it. You hear the odd reference to Hyper Pro springs, but the scooter is usually as it was when it came out of the dealers showroom, with a few comfort add ons. If you want to play 'flicking it through the twisties' so badly, go buy the lighter more nimble Yamaha 500 T Max.

Meldrew:
I'm understand your position, but I think you fail to understand why other people may actually like to make the sort of mods you seemingly scorn. While the Yamaha is a fine machine, it is too small for me, it is significantly more expensive than my Swing (even after I have paid for all my add-ons), and lacks the storage I have with the Swing. In the end, I have a bike that fits my needs better, gets better gas mileage, and it cost less. The same goes for the Burgman. Nothing too complicated here.

I'm not scorning these mods, but if the Silver Wing is lacking in the performance and handling stakes why buy one in the first place. It's not a sports motorcycle and it doesn't try to be one. How much more performance do you need? I've never once thought about the fork springs on any of my scooters in 15 years of maxi scooter riding, and when you ride a 400cc plus scooter you have the power to overtake and cruise in excess of national speed limits, so why do you need to play about changing things. You're not going to reach your destination that much faster, and you won't recoup your investment at trade in time. I understand adding comfort and storage mods, but the obsessive need to change bits for very little gain I don't, and if that makes me different or unpopular on the forum, I'll have to live with it.

Meldrew - Just so you know, you have far more mods than I do. Who really needs a mudflap, fork gaiters, leg deflectors or heated grips - I'll tell you who... mod monsters Just kidding with you.

But the innefficient transmission / final drive is robbing me of the MPG (thus $) that a more efficient direct drive system would provide. The ride would be greatly improved with larger wheels/tires.

I should have noted - the mods I've made to the two SilverWings in our garage - Top Boxes for touring, customized seats and mirror extenders.

Yes, I realize we're out of control...

Meldrew, I see what you're saying, but think of it this way: More than many other bikes, the Silverwing comes very close to a performance bike just in its stock condition. Human tendency being what it is, when something comes that close to the goal, we tend to want to squeeze out the last little bits of performance precisely because we are that close. I remember my MSF course teacher told the class that cruiser bikes, for instance, don't excel in anything. They are bad at braking, bad at acceleration, bad on turns, put stress on the tailbone and have to be modded up the wazoo just to have weather protection. So if we were on a cruiser forum, we might not be having this discussion because we'd know never even be CLOSE to having a performance vehicle therefore we wouldn't even try. There wouldn't be any light at the end of the tunnel.
This thread about the new Honda Integra (hate that name, BTW) well illustrates the way most of us feel Honda has a way of bringing us nearly to the end of the tunnel or cave entrance, but not all the way out and thus we all want to be able to take the final steps out all on our own. Perhaps some of us will prefer to stay inside, and that's okay too, but they can't fault the rest of us for wanting to finish the job and get ALL the performance we can out of a certain bike's design capabilities

Off the track , LVScooterBill in Vegas. I have been from Vegas to the Grand Canyon by car. Those open roads out there must be good riding. hows that new bridge comming?

tubeck wrote:

Off the track , LVScooterBill in Vegas. I have been from Vegas to the Grand Canyon by car. Those open roads out there must be good riding. hows that new bridge comming?

Great riding indeed, but my skill level gives me nerves riding in open areas with our typical year-round desert high crosswinds. I'm hoping my new Pirelli Diablos and soon to be installed Hyperpro fork springs will help mitigate my deficiencies.
By the bridge, I assume you mean the US93 bypass bridge to avoid going over Hoover Dam. It's been completed for a few months now, but has high concrete walls so one has to park and walk around to a pedestrian/bicycle lane outboard of the walls to get the view facing the dam, Colorado river and the gorge below.

LVScooter:
You seem to understand at least part of the pleasure/satisfaction that I get out of my effort to improve the performance of the Swing. Another factor that most of you others do not have to deal with is that I live at over 5200 feet above sea level. At this elevation the amount of power made by the Swing (and all other vehicles for that matter) is greatly reduced Even with all the mods I have made the Dyno indicates that I am only putting 36 hp to the rear wheel. You guys at sea level are doing about 20% better than that.

Here is a view of the naked bike with the 700cc engine.

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/News/newsresults/New-bikes/2011/September/sep2611-hondas-new-700cc-naked-how-good-is-it-going-to-be/Honda/_/R-EPI-132895

x.

Well that's just the view of your riding buddy. In the UK the T Max has a strong and loyal following as the sportiest and best handling of the maxi-scooters, and even the original Mk 1 versions are much sought after. It's now on Mk 3, and been updated and improved much more than the Silver Wing ever has. That's probably why it's more expensive new than the 650 Burgman, and it's fans hope that one day Yamaha will bring out a 750cc version.

x

I had TMAX=fun. Bad wind management. last time I was in Paris there were lots of them Good riding position. Fast. But think maint. costs as they age. Drive line much more complicated than SilverWing. Mine found new home.

With 7,000 baby boomers a day, retiring here in the U.S., this no shifting scooter/motorcycle, is the target, that Honda is shooting for. Ride Safe...Robert in Az.

I have a friend in the local area that is the CEO for a motorcycle apparel company. As a result, he sees a lot of bikes at dealerships and gets the opportunity to do demo rides.

He rode the newer Burgman 400 and the TMax on the Ben Howard road. It's a favorite of local motorcycle riders because it is a very twisty road with ups and downs and few straights. Speed limit is only 35 mph, so it is a road where power really isn't a player.

He said he'd never admit it on MajestyUSA (probably because he'd get killed ),but he felt the Burgman 400 was the better handling bike of the two.

I figure he is pretty much unbiased. He was riding an FJR at the time and now owns a VStrom 1000. There's not much reason to be biased towards one or the other.

Chris

The Silverwing will beat out a Tmax in a straight line acceleration, youtube has videos proving this many times over, as for handling... Unless it is done by a professional it really is very subjective.

OK where is the STIG of the 2 wheel world when one needs one.

Oh Swing wings because of the golden rule... THERE IS NO REPLACEMENT FOR DISPLACEMENT.

LVScooterBill wrote:

Meldrew, I see what you're saying, but think of it this way: More than many other bikes, the Silverwing comes very close to a performance bike just in its stock condition. Human tendency being what it is, when something comes that close to the goal, we tend to want to squeeze out the last little bits of performance precisely because we are that close. I remember my MSF course teacher told the class that cruiser bikes, for instance, don't excel in anything. They are bad at braking, bad at acceleration, bad on turns, put stress on the tailbone and have to be modded up the wazoo just to have weather protection. So if we were on a cruiser forum, we might not be having this discussion because we'd know never even be CLOSE to having a performance vehicle therefore we wouldn't even try. There wouldn't be any light at the end of the tunnel.
This thread about the new Honda Integra (hate that name, BTW) well illustrates the way most of us feel Honda has a way of bringing us nearly to the end of the tunnel or cave entrance, but not all the way out and thus we all want to be able to take the final steps out all on our own. Perhaps some of us will prefer to stay inside, and that's okay too, but they can't fault the rest of us for wanting to finish the job and get ALL the performance we can out of a certain bike's design capabilities

I agree, this was partially going to be my response as well.

It doesnt matter if its your first trycycle, or a top fuel dragster, human males want it to be faster and better. If we didnt, there would be 1 car, 1 motorcycle,1 truck, and life would be boring as hell!

Tagg wrote:

It doesnt matter if its your first trycycle, or a top fuel dragster, human males want it to be faster and better. If we didnt, there would be 1 car, 1 motorcycle,1 truck, and life would be boring as hell!

I don't need any more speed or acceleration, I don't have a problem with the fork springs or handling generally, and apart from the under seat storage area which could be laid out better I'm happy with the Silver Wing.

I'm into touring, and just by adding a few simple things I can ride all day in comfort, and store two full sets of riding kit away when we stop for sightseeing. Next year I'm thinking of revisiting a part of Germany that was once in East Germany, that may be boring to you though.

Next year I'm thinking of revisiting a part of Germany that was once in East Germany, that may be boring to you though.
[/quote] It sure doesn't sound boring to me. Maybe it's the grass on the other side of the fence, but it seems like you have great places to visit,

I don't think that'd be boring either, Meldrew. I'd never knock you for touring...or others for their performance mods. Probably most of us on this board would consider themselves as falling somewhere between the two polar opposite opinions of easy comfy touring and hot rodding short sprints. For myself, I hope that some of my mods can help me get more confidence to one day make that long ride cross-country. Can I get more confidence by just spending more time in the saddle, touring locally within this and nearby states and riding somewhere other than the same familiar streets on my daily commute? Most likely, and it would be far cheaper than modding to improve the ride characteristics, handling, etc. But as it is, I don't normally have much time to spend in the saddle, with my busy lifestyle, so touring to develop confidence and ability via "hours experience" is not an option right now. Thus, I envy you in your adventures but must mod to get better ride-ability for the moment.

LVScooterBill wrote:

I don't think that'd be boring either, Meldrew. I'd never knock you for touring...or others for their performance mods. Probably most of us on this board would consider themselves as falling somewhere between the two polar opposite opinions of easy comfy touring and hot rodding short sprints. For myself, I hope that some of my mods can help me get more confidence to one day make that long ride cross-country. Can I get more confidence by just spending more time in the saddle, touring locally within this and nearby states and riding somewhere other than the same familiar streets on my daily commute? Most likely, and it would be far cheaper than modding to improve the ride characteristics, handling, etc. But as it is, I don't normally have much time to spend in the saddle, with my busy lifestyle, so touring to develop confidence and ability via "hours experience" is not an option right now. Thus, I envy you in your adventures but must mod to get better ride-ability for the moment.

Now that pretty much sums me up!

I mostly use the 'Wing' as a commuter, engine size for the distance, top speed for getting out of the poo! Storage for all the crap I tend to take to work to make my existence there more bearable!!!

My main interest in life are my two dogs so getting to tour isn't an option. Would love to! But I find I don't get bothered when out and about with the dogs. I get real stressy when driving or riding with the incompetence of other road users.

Like I say, 'horses for courses'. We all use our bikes for different things and as long as we enjoy whatever we do on them there should never be any issues really!