2012 Honda 700cc Super Scooter

First topic message reminder :





honda integra 700cc parallel twin scooter will be at the milan bike show in november
claimed 77mpg what do fellow silverwing riders think of this scooter, would you buy one to replace your silverwing?if it is not over priced!!!

the only differance between men and boys are the price of their toys!

tubeck wrote:

the only differance between men and boys are the price of their toys!

A fool and his money are soon parted!

This commercial break brought to you by thread hijacking... :lol!:

Okay, so back on topic

OK then, this new Integra isn't the new Silver Wing, the SW-T600 is the nearest we're likely to get from Honda. This is a forum for Silver Wing enthusiasts, not for big wheeled scooter/ motorcycle hybrid fans. I can ride a motorcycle and a scooter, so I don't want one, and don't see the appeal of one.

I actually think this "scooter" has a lot going for it...and will go a long ways towards making scooters more acceptable in the USA and Canada. Before getting someone who has never considered a scooter before to even walk over to look at it along with all the other bikes on a showroom floor, there needs to be some visual clues that make it seem respectable.

One of those visual clues is the "hump". It is higher than most of us feel is acceptable, but it is also high enough to not seem like a "girls" bike. The Goldwing has the fuel tank under the seat for the same reason a scooter fuel tank is positioned down low...but they kept the image of a fuel tank anyway. Why? Because a real motorcycle must have one. Once you get close enough to the Goldwing to find out that isn't a real gas tank, it doesn't matter.

So I think that while the hump is higher than a true scooter rider would want, it is a conscious decision by Honda to make it visually appealing to a motorcycle owner.

The tires also are another smart visual clue. While we all know our scooter tires and wheels are stable at high speeds, you have a problem convincing real motorcycle owners that they are. Having wheels this size, makes it seem more like all the other bikes around it on the dealer's floor.

And lastly, the engine is large enough to be considered capable of riding down the freeway. I know a 400cc engine will get me down the freeway, but say "scooter" and most people who either ride a motorcycle already, or may be thinking of a motorcycle think of a scooter as being a moped or Vespa. Like it or not, the person considering a maxi-scooter for the first time wants to be respected when they show off their new bike to their friends. 400ccs doesn't cut it for many.

And then the gas mileage, even if only in the 60s, is great.

But they'll find that out once they are standing next to the scooter. First though, you have to get them willing to even look at it. And these visual clues might be enough to get new customers to walk over and look.

Chris

+1 Chris. Accurate observations, all.

I definitely think it will sell based on looks alone, particularly in North America where for some reason, scooters are looked down on to some degree. As long as it has:

Comfortable ride
Performance
Very good storage

I would definitely consider replacing my Swing with one of these BUT price will undoubtedly be an issue, at least for me. No way would I pay $10-$12k for a new one, so maybe in 2 years when they start to hit the used market.

Chris

I think the "700cc Super Scooter" is very attractive, but storage looks like it's far less than the SWing, which for me makes it a non-starter. And I have to echo John Grinsel -- Chain?? No thank you. Now, if Honda were to fit a 900 or 1000cc engine, I might could overlook the rest. For now though, me very happy with my Swing.

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/News/newsresults/New-bikes/2011/May/may2411-hondas-shock-new-700cc-auto-scooped/

Quote :

These world exclusive spy shots show a radical new Honda with an all-new 700cc parallel-twin engine and the advanced dual clutch transmission of the VFR1200F.

The bike was snapped in the Alps last week as it underwent final testing with the Honda Research and Development team. It is expected to be officially shown in November at the Milan show and will be on sale next year.

The new middleweight is an intriguing mix of high and low tech, which seems likely to appeal to less-experienced riders – particularly those progressing from twist and go scooters – or city commuters demanding ease of use and low running costs.

You can read the full story, with more images of this naked version, a fully faired scooter variant and full details and images of the production version of the Honda VFR1200 Crosstourer in the May 25 issue of MCN on sale now.

I'm not sure where you'd put the gas tank, but the top frame member on the motorcycle looks like where the scooter's hump is. Now what did they do with the gas tank?

IMHO, this makes an interesting ride. It is definitely more of a motorcycle with scooter plastic on it.

Chris

This thing looks like it's aimed squarely at Aprilia's Mana, which is an 850. At least the Mana has some storage where the fuel tank "should be."

I admire Honda for trying, but this is no SWing replacement. As far as I'm concerned, just take the current SWing, fit larger tires if you must, give it a proper front end with an upper triple clamp and double discs, bump up the displacement, and LEAVE THE REST ALONE.

Meldrew wrote:

Tagg wrote:

It doesnt matter if its your first trycycle, or a top fuel dragster, human males want it to be faster and better. If we didnt, there would be 1 car, 1 motorcycle,1 truck, and life would be boring as hell!

I don't need any more speed or acceleration, I don't have a problem with the fork springs or handling generally, and apart from the under seat storage area which could be laid out better I'm happy with the Silver Wing.

I'm into touring, and just by adding a few simple things I can ride all day in comfort, and store two full sets of riding kit away when we stop for sightseeing. Next year I'm thinking of revisiting a part of Germany that was once in East Germany, that may be boring to you though.

Actually i would find touring Germany quite interesting!

cjuzda wrote:

I definitely think it will sell based on looks alone, particularly in North America where for some reason, scooters are looked down on to some degree. As long as it has:

Comfortable ride
Performance
Very good storage

I would definitely consider replacing my Swing with one of these BUT price will undoubtedly be an issue, at least for me. No way would I pay $10-$12k for a new one, so maybe in 2 years when they start to hit the used market.

Chris

Yes indeed! Scooter riders in the U S are seen as being lower class by the masses. I have seen the dismissive look quite frequently. Even a person driving the worst piece of rusted out old crap considers themselves better off than someone on a scooter over here! Ive been asked:
Don't you have a job?
Do you have a DUI or something?
How come you don't have a drivers license?
What do you do in the winter?
They usually exit the conversation considerably more enlightened, and sometimes more embarrassed then when they entered it!

Tagg wrote:

cjuzda wrote:

I definitely think it will sell based on looks alone, particularly in North America where for some reason, scooters are looked down on to some degree. As long as it has:

Comfortable ride
Performance
Very good storage

I would definitely consider replacing my Swing with one of these BUT price will undoubtedly be an issue, at least for me. No way would I pay $10-$12k for a new one, so maybe in 2 years when they start to hit the used market.

Chris

Yes indeed! Scooter riders in the U S are seen as being lower class by the masses. I have seen the dismissive look quite frequently. Even a person driving the worst piece of rusted out old crap considers themselves better off than someone on a scooter over here! Ive been asked:
Don't you have a job?
Do you have a DUI or something?
How come you don't have a drivers license?
What do you do in the winter?
They usually exit the conversation considerably more enlightened, and sometimes more embarrassed then when they entered it!

My favourite: "What is that, a 150?"

cjuzda wrote:

Tagg wrote:

cjuzda wrote:

I definitely think it will sell based on looks alone, particularly in North America where for some reason, scooters are looked down on to some degree. As long as it has:

Comfortable ride
Performance
Very good storage

I would definitely consider replacing my Swing with one of these BUT price will undoubtedly be an issue, at least for me. No way would I pay $10-$12k for a new one, so maybe in 2 years when they start to hit the used market.

Chris

Yes indeed! Scooter riders in the U S are seen as being lower class by the masses. I have seen the dismissive look quite frequently. Even a person driving the worst piece of rusted out old crap considers themselves better off than someone on a scooter over here! Ive been asked:
Don't you have a job?
Do you have a DUI or something?
How come you don't have a drivers license?
What do you do in the winter?
They usually exit the conversation considerably more enlightened, and sometimes more embarrassed then when they entered it!

My favourite: "What is that, a 150?"

i know right? There shocked to find out its a 600 twin. i always use the opportunity to educate people on scooters, as a matter of fact i just got back from a short errand/ride and answered many many questions on it, and scooter riding in general that 2 guys in a truck had that were parked next to me. Just about convinced them it was cool cause you hardly see anyone on the big scooters around here. Its all about changing peoples perceptions, and i try to do my part.

Hmmmm, that sounds like a good idea for a new thread!

cjuzda wrote:

My favourite: "What is that, a 150?"

I'll never understand why nitwits ask us something like that. Why on earth do they think such a big bike, one more massive than many motorcycles next to it, would have a measly motor the size of a moped? And if that were true, who on earth would want to lug around a bike so big with such a small motor when you could get a bike that weighs a third of that with the same displacement? You almost want to say, "Use your brain folks, just look at the size & weight of the thing." Not to mention if it had such a small displacement, you'd see lighter small scoots passing it instead of the other way around, and you certainly wouldn't see maxis like mine passing your car on the freeway.

cjuzda wrote:

My favourite: "What is that, a 150?"

I would have answered the ignorant question with "No .... it goes 115 MPH".

I find that if the first reply includes "It goes 115 MPH" ... then the question quickly change to practical questions.

I'm with cjuzda that said 2-3 years down the road will be the time to buy one. better start a fund now

tubeck wrote:

I'm with cjuzda that said 2-3 years down the road will be the time to buy one. better start a fund now

2-3 years down the road the SW-T 600 might be available in the UK, USA, and Canada. BMW's scooter will be on sale, and Mr Grinsel will have 1000000 rubber band miles under his... er... belt.

Here are some more pictures http://www.mcnews.com.au/2012_Bikes/Honda/Integra/Honda_Integra_Images/index.htm#35

x

Looks really good in the new pics. here's hoping the price is "reasonable" - Although it looks pretty uncomfortable for any passenger - particularly without the top box installed.

Our European friends will probably be the first to get a chance to buy one, while us step children over here in the U.S. will probably have to wait awhile. Lets hope Honda, does'nt make us wait too long. Ride Safe...Robert.

I'm going to cut and paste what the article says:

Honda Integra - Specifications
Engine – 670cc, liquid-cooled, four-stroke 270-degree crank phased in-line twin
Claimed Power – 38.1kw at 6250rpm
Claimed Torque – 62Nm at 4750rpm
Transmission – Dual-clutch semi-automatic six-speed
Fuel Capacity – 14.1 litres
L x W x H – 2195 x 790 x 1440mm
Wheelbase – 1525mm
Caster Angle – 27-degree
Trail – 110mm
Seat Height – 790mm
Ground Clearance – 135mm
Kerb Weight – 238kg
Front Suspension – 41mm forks, 120mm travel
Rear Suspension – Pro-link monoshock, 120mm travel
Brakes – Combined ABS, 320mm front disc, 240mm rear
Tyres – 120/70-17 (F), 160/60-17 (R)

Works out to 51 hp, 45 ft lbs of torque, & 58 mpg=4 liters per 100km (so hopefully it will be at least in the low 60's.

Here is more of the article:

-- Honda introduce new Integra mega-scoot
-- By Trevor Hedge

Honda have upped the ante in the large scooter war when the all-new 670cc twin-cylinder Integra.

Integra of course was once an affordable Honda motor car but for 2012 Big Red is using the moniker for their new mega-scoot.

Another feature to make it across from the four-wheeled world is Honda’s dual-clutch semi-automatic transmission. Offering six-speeds the second generation dual-clutch system is promised to offer adaptive learning and three modes of operation. Full manual control via handlebar controls, D mode for highways and S mode for sportier high-rpm use and more engine braking on deceleration. A nice feature is an immediate manual override at any time while in S or D modes with the rider only needing to push the up or downshift button for instant response and the system simply returns to automatic mode after the manual intervention.

The liquid-cooled parallel twin is a new unit for Honda that is designed for a multitude of uses across many models, the Integra the first of which to utilise the long-stroke SOHC donk which Integra guise generates 51hp (38.1kw) at 6250rpm and 62Nm of torque at 4750rpm. In many markets a reduced power version of the 270-degree crank phased engine is available for learners but due to the 650cc cut-off of the LAMS scheme used in most Australian states unfortunately this new machine will not be eligible for learners.

Honda claim the Integra sips less than four litres per 100km thanks to the efficient low-friction nature of the new powerplant. Adding to the economy of the machine are car-like 12,000km service intervals.

41mm forks provide an excellent 120mm of travel while the monoshock pro-link rear end matches that figure.

Riding on 17” rims shod with a fat 160mm rear and equally generous 120mm front tyre the Integra should provide excellent stability and a motorcycle-like riding experience while marrying scooter convenience and weather protection.

Combined ABS is standard equipment with a three-piston caliper and 320mm single disc up front aided by a 240mm rear bringing the 238kg Integra to a halt with a minimum of fuss.

A low, but no doubt not low enough for some, 790mm seat height, good protection from the elements and a 15-litre underseat storage area. Optional 29-litre panniers and a 40-litre top box provide more amenity and the Integra is rated to carry up to a 195kg payload.

It looks pretty good too. Honda Australia expects the Integra to arrive Down Under early in the second quarter of 2012.


I was expecting a bit more hp really. I know that 58+ mpg is good but I wouldn't be surprised if it is really lower than that in real life riding. But there is some good storage as long as the 29 liters in the panniers are for each one. That would be approx 113 liters if each pannier is 29 liters, but only 84 liters if both are total of 29 liters.

I still like the looks but I was wanting more hp. I wonder how much hp there will be to the rear wheel. If it is more efficent than hopefully it will put it at about 45 hp to the rear wheel.

x

Thanks Bill for the extra photo's.

After their viewing the design is catching on.

That said, it will take a lot to move me off my Silver Wing. Like retirement! Then I wouldn't have an issue with storage, no need to carry baggage to work!!!

Has any one mention price yet?

Interesting point. Based on the photos, it looks like you could still step through it as the normal step through spot is by far the lowest point on the bike. My feeling is if Honda calls it a scooter and markets it as a scooter, the insurance companies, including Autopac (or did they change the name?) will class it as a scooter. I'm not sure if there is a formal definition of "scooter" that they use. My rates would go up somewhat since it's over 600 cc's.

bigbird wrote:

As Steve Jobs used to say, "just one more thing".
Since this Integra is not even of step-through design, will it even be classified as a scooter?
If not, it's off my radar, as insurance and registration on it where I live would be about $2k/year, as opposed to $580 on my Swing.

x

As I'm looking at this bike more...and some of the others like the new BMW, I'm thinking they aren't marketing this to us. The demographic they are trying to reach is the aging affluent motorcyclist who hasn't considered a scooter and wouldn't normally.

The things that are important to us, are a joke on these bikes. Storage? I had more on my Kymco Bet&Win. 15 liters of underseat storage is definitely laughable, especially in comparison with the 62 liters I use daily. I just can't see myself giving up that capability. But for a motorcyclist who has never had any at all...it's a lot.

The step through is high...and seems designed high to accomodate the 15 liters of storage. For a motorcyclist, this will give them a "warm fuzzy" because they are used to having something between their legs. But to me, it's a "cold prickly".

The new transmission is there so those of us who like gadgets can point out how cool it is and gain some respect from our motorcycle brethren. If you read about the use of the manual and power functions on the Burgman 650, you'll find most owners leave it alone after the newness wears off. And as the miles have begun accumulating, you can read of CVT failures on the 650. Will this be any different?

Most "real" motorcycles fall into the toy category IMHO. This does too. Around here in Seattle, most motorcycles are used for joy rides. In the summer, they are used also for commuting, but the novelty of riding isn't enough to carry past when the weather turns cold and wet. And besides, if I need to pick up a loaf of bread and a dozen eggs on the way home...where do I put it? In my backpack? The new Honda (and BMW) don't do anything at all to be more than joy riding machines. Which is fine...

...but some of us actually use our scooters as our primary mode of transportation. And this doesn't cut it.

Chris

Daboo wrote:

...but some of us actually use our scooters as our primary mode of transportation. And this doesn't cut it.

Chris

Chris I agree with your comments but to be truthful if it doesn't fit the bill - don't buy one.

I know I won't for most of the reasons you state.

I think with a good sized top case, panniers and the admittedly meager underseat storage, it will be sufficient for my daily needs. I currently only use the underseat storage on my SWing so with the fully decked out new machine, I think I'll have about the same or slightly better capacity. There are lots of motorcycle riders I know who use it for their daily transportation at least 6 months of the year, so I think it's a gross generalization to class them as "toys".

Daboo wrote:

As I'm looking at this bike more...and some of the others like the new BMW, I'm thinking they aren't marketing this to us. The demographic they are trying to reach is the aging affluent motorcyclist who hasn't considered a scooter and wouldn't normally.

The things that are important to us, are a joke on these bikes. Storage? I had more on my Kymco Bet&Win. 15 liters of underseat storage is definitely laughable, especially in comparison with the 62 liters I use daily. I just can't see myself giving up that capability. But for a motorcyclist who has never had any at all...it's a lot.

The step through is high...and seems designed high to accomodate the 15 liters of storage. For a motorcyclist, this will give them a "warm fuzzy" because they are used to having something between their legs. But to me, it's a "cold prickly".

The new transmission is there so those of us who like gadgets can point out how cool it is and gain some respect from our motorcycle brethren. If you read about the use of the manual and power functions on the Burgman 650, you'll find most owners leave it alone after the newness wears off. And as the miles have begun accumulating, you can read of CVT failures on the 650. Will this be any different?

Most "real" motorcycles fall into the toy category IMHO. This does too. Around here in Seattle, most motorcycles are used for joy rides. In the summer, they are used also for commuting, but the novelty of riding isn't enough to carry past when the weather turns cold and wet. And besides, if I need to pick up a loaf of bread and a dozen eggs on the way home...where do I put it? In my backpack? The new Honda (and BMW) don't do anything at all to be more than joy riding machines. Which is fine...

...but some of us actually use our scooters as our primary mode of transportation. And this doesn't cut it.

Chris

cjuzda wrote:

I think with a good sized top case, panniers and the admittedly meager underseat storage, it will be sufficient for my daily needs. I currently only use the underseat storage on my SWing so with the fully decked out new machine, I think I'll have about the same or slightly better capacity. There are lots of motorcycle riders I know who use it for their daily transportation at least 6 months of the year, so I think it's a gross generalization to class them as "toys"...

The generalization may be region specific. In the Seattle area, I see the "real" motorcyclists come out when the temps are above 50F and there's no chance of rain. That limits them to about 2-3 months of riding with scattered days outside that period. If the temp goes up to 50F on a dry Spring afternoon, the streets will roar with the boys on their toys riding up and down the streets. And the next day when the rain comes in, they are all gone.

I doubt seriously that the bikes I can hear from blocks away going up and down the street would be doing that in their cars and minivans that they drove to work that day. They are out there to play. And I think if you asked them if that was why they were out, they'd agree. Other than the noise level and the speeding most of them are doing, it doesn't hurt anything.

On my last trip to Costco, I purchased a case of soy milk, a case of beer, a box of cookies and some other assorted items. The checker asked when she saw my riding gear and the helmet in the basket if I was really riding that day. Earlier, it had been pouring. I said yes. Then she looked at the stuff on the counter and was wondering how it would all fit. I pointed to the cookies and other things and said those would go under the seat. The soy milk will fit in the top box and the beer on the back seat. I asked her what she rode and she said a Honda VTX 1300. But even her large saddlebags wouldn't be able to carry what I had. With this new "scooter", I'd be able to get the things that would've gone under the seat into the top box...and forget about the rest. The back seat is tiny and probably wouldn't carry either of the two cases of liquid. And adding small side cases doesn't really help that much, especially if everything inside that is loose falls out on the ground when you open them. That'll get old.

If the storage...after adding panniers to equal what you already have meets your needs, then great.

But it does look good.

Chris

x

bigbird wrote:

Daboo wrote:

On my last trip to Costco, I purchased a case of soy milk, a case of beer, a box of cookies and some other assorted items.

Costco sells beer?
Nice!
I wish they did the same in Canada.

Yes, and it is their own Kirkland brand. Nice mix of various brews.

I did get a good laugh out of the checker. First, she couldn't believe anyone would ride in that kind of weather. Actually, it wasn't bad at all. Above 50 with only a light sprinkle at the time. Fairings and good riding gear keeps you warm and dry.

And then she took in what was on the counter and did a mental calculation of how she would get that home on her VTX 1300...and couldn't picture it. She ended up making a point of asking me what I rode.

If this new Honda will get some competition and innovation going in the scooter world, then I'm all for it. I just hope they don't over-engineer the bikes. I like the Silverwing and Burgman 400 for the simplicity of how they get the job done. There is little to fail, and if something does fail, it doesn't cost the price of a new bike to repair it.


Chris

So, it seems that the answer is simple... Get both bikes. Keep the Swing for those days you need the extra storage and by the new bike for the days that you don't need all the storage.

x

I would rather have something like the SWing but with larger tires, a few more mpg, and better suspension. That is really all I would like. I do like the simplicity of the scoots like the SWing, B400 and such...since like Chris said..if it breaks it doesn't cost much to fix. I'm sure I would really like this new bike and I will look at it if it ever comes this way. I do really like the looks of it.

I just found this link from the maxi-scoots.com site. It seems this bike gets 65 mpg which is very good but it only has a 3.7 gal tank.

http://blog.motorcycle.com/2011/10/25/manufacturers/honda/eicma-2011-preview-2012-honda-integra-specs-released/

I must say I like the look of the Honda very much but why oh why is it necessary to put bigger and bigger engines in what is really a maxiscooter-type of bike?
I like the thought of bigger wheels and all that but it's such a waste of time to make bikes capable, like the GP800, of attaining 128MPH.

I think that companies like Honda should be using their wealth of knowledge and expertise to develop a super-lightweight, small capacity diesel engine for bikes with a suitably rugged transmission to maintain the present levels of acceleration and speed.

For how many years now have diesel-engined cars won the Le Mans 24-Hour race?

x

Yanmar make a diesel outboard engine.
I suppose the motorcycle manufacturers are concerned only with high speed and forget that many people don't want to race along at 200MPH.

I just read this

http://news.motorbiker.org/blogs.nsf/dx/bmw-r80-diesel-motorcycle-for-sale.htm

If the manufacturers won't make a diesel engined bike, do it yourself.

For the Americans -- the mileage is close to 70mpg.

:flower:

Is it just me or am I missing something. Is there not a seat for a passanger? Looks like a one person machine.

mrcaveman wrote:

Is it just me or am I missing something. Is there not a seat for a passanger? Looks like a one person machine.

A trip to the optician may be worth while.

Definitely a pillion seat on that BMW!

joncallihan wrote:

I just read this

http://news.motorbiker.org/blogs.nsf/dx/bmw-r80-diesel-motorcycle-for-sale.htm

If the manufacturers won't make a diesel engined bike, do it yourself.

For the Americans -- the mileage is close to 70mpg.

:flower:

I get that on my Burgman 400...and I don't have to put up with the negatives of a diesel.

Chris

Hey Chris, quit bragging about your 400 and get on back over to the Burgman forum. And find a fix for those squealing clutches, other than the high price Hit clutch. I thought of the 400 clutch when I read the previous thread, with pics, from the gent in the UK who camfered the clutch pads and also added a diagonal grove to disperse dust. Sounds like something you might want to try.

Just pulling your leg above, and truth be told, I should have kept my very nice '09 400 and traded my Helix on the Can Am instead. At the time I thought the Can Am would be all I'd ever need but found thats not the case as I prefer the scoots for backroad twisties. The Can Am is a delightful roadster and great for cruise control cruising and long hauls.

Having just got my first ever Silverwing, I'm really glad I did; in some ways its really retro but at same token, all the bugs have been worked out, and it has that solid feel of reliability. And theres a ton of info on this forum from experienced Silverwingers than one can access .

BTW, I still read the Burg forums to keep up on 400 events. Cheers.

http://vimeo.com/31080892

Aside from the entertaining ride video, I really dig the music track on it. Wish I knew what the name of the song and artist are...

Dear God - Avenged Sevenfold

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzX0rhF8buo&ob=av3e

I'm now hooked on it!

You're hooked on the new scooter or Avenged Sevenfold?

I'm asking because those of you who've never heard Avenged Sevenfold before should not assume that all their music is this "soft." Most of their work is very hard rock. Not that that's a bad thing, but Dear God is almost a country song in comparison. Pesonally, I like them; the CD with this track has been in my collection for a long time. Think I'll go listen to it now...

The song.

Soft, hard - it matters not. I like what I like.