Great Scott, No Darkside Section?

as controversial, fun, boring, helpful, dreadful and popular as this DARKSIDE subject is....I cannot believe.....there is no darkside section....WTF....I beg of you, I must have a darkside section....i feel a need to get "knee deep in it"......OH BTW....do not buy a Darkside tire....it offers a comfy ride, great value, longevity, controversy and for these things I have experienced I recommend that you Do Not buy one......P.S. i still keep my old IRC in the garage so i can reminisce of pre darkside days :-)

FlyingWing wrote:

as controversial, fun, boring, helpful, dreadful and popular as this DARKSIDE subject is....I cannot believe.....there is no darkside section....WTF....I beg of you, I must have a darkside section....i feel a need to get "knee deep in it"......OH BTW....do not buy a Darkside tire....it offers a comfy ride, great value, longevity, controversy and for these things I have experienced I recommend that you Do Not buy one......P.S. i still keep my old IRC in the garage so i can reminisce of pre darkside days :-)

+1

I am having a hard time wearing out my darkside Goldwing. I have 13,000 miles on it and it looks like another 17,000 to go. About 3 times the normal wear of a Goldwing motorcycle tire. That is two tire changes at $325 each.

I am going darkside on my "new to me" Silverwing as soon as I wear out the MT on the back. I need some suggestions for a darkside tire please.

I only want suggestions from people who have run a darkside tire on the Silverwing. And I don't want to know about anyone who is using a darkside tire in the UK, because it is illegal there, and I wouldn't want to promote anything that could harm someone there....

In spite of the evangelistic nature (and zeal/fervor) of those who use a car tire on their motorcycle, the number who actually install a car tire is proportionally minute.

There are quite a few posts and dedicated threads for car tire users. I'd point out that there is no specific section for after market variators either, even though the number of owners who use them if greater than car tire users. And, no I don't have an aftermarket variator on either of the two SilverWings we own.

And I understand that you will feel this is terribly insensitive, but use the search function - you'll find many posts (at least 8 threads not including this one and the UK one) about car tire use.

larryinseattle wrote:

...And I don't want to know about anyone who is using a darkside tire in the UK, because it is illegal there, and I wouldn't want to promote anything that could harm someone there....

Well, to quote some rather (in?)famous Brits "You can't always get what you want..."

It's a world wide forum.

LARRR.....Im a darksider, i tried it and then started using and it eventually became a habit, now i attend DARKSIDERS ANONYMOUS because im trying to be convinced to go back motorcycle tires....lol....i use the sumitomo just because everyone has had such a good experience with it...only thing i dont like about it....the sidewalls are thin....but its a scooter not a two ton car.

JD....if i cant have a dedicated darkside section.....will you atleast consider a "Break Room" or Water Cooler" section.....lets put fun back into scooter forums :-) ....."But sometimes u get what u need"...is the rest of that quote.....P.S......I grew up in Talladega and i hope u guys still have the wave pool. kinda unfair that our brothers across the pond get their own section but Darksiders will always be on the darkside.

FlyingWing wrote:

if i cant have a dedicated darkside section

Currently there are no plans to have a dedicated Darkside Tire section.

FlyingWing wrote:

will you atleast consider a "Break Room" or Water Cooler" section

Currently there are no plans to have a "Break Room" or "Water Cooler" section.

I believe there are many media outlets that provide this ability. If you are not familiar with any, here is one example www.advrider.com/forums under "The Basement" where you can cool off.

FlyingWing wrote:

lets put fun back into scooter forums :-)

I believe a lot of members believe this is a fun and friendly forum.

Sometime it very hard to perceive/separate sarcasm or attitude with a written post (even with emoticons). An international forum can even have more challenges due to colloquialisms and cultures.

Ok.

So I am not campaigning for a separate section for darksider tires. I just want to use a good car tire on my Silverwing. Sumitomo is the preferred tire for the "few" darksiders? Why? Are there other options? I am a few thousand miles from going darkside, so I have some time.

well larry its good thing u dont want a darkside section....cuz it "aint" gonna happen....any car tire will work if it will fit your rim....u dont want to get one that is too wide or it might scrub the drive train or swing arm....OR....u could just get the sumitomo 165/70-13(think thats the size)....so many have used it without problems.....when u get that tire on the rim and some idiot tells you it wont bead to the rim....kindly take your tire to a car tire shop and have them bead blast it on.....it will mount up.....DONT TAKE NO FOR AN ANSWER.....to answer your other question...why sumitomo....its a 75,000 mile tire.

larryinseattle wrote:

I just want to use a good car tire on my Silverwing. Sumitomo is the preferred tire for the "few" darksiders? Why?

Good grip ( wet/dry even with roads flooded)
Good wear ( 40,00 miles before I replaced )
Good handling

larryinseattle wrote:

Are there other options?

I have created a new locked thread https://www.silverwing600.com/t4166-silverwing-darkside-rear-tires-tested#38049 with I will keep updated as people notify me of their Darkside tires test.

The locked thread will provide a short and complete thread of Darkside tires tested.

"honda_silver... you keep usin' dem der big words and I gonna' have ta' go bye a dikshuneery...

(It's 4 days after turkey day and I just don't have anything better to do right now...)

The force is strong in my Precious, the dark ring call out to her I will try to resist
as long as I can.-----------

I got my tire delivered. Now I need to have it mounted up. I will report back when I do.

It is the little things that keep us all excited. After all, the Silverwing is just a vehicle and a back tire is a back tire. No sense getting all emotional about it.

Just don't tell me that I am crazy for putting a car tire on my scooter.

larryinseattle wrote:

Just don't tell me that I am crazy for putting a car tire on my scooter.

You say that like its a bad thing.... Like its an insult instead of a compliment.

The crazier people claim I am the more visionary I look when I succeed.

See the quote in my sig.

Dan

larryinseattle wrote:

I got my tire delivered. Now I need to have it mounted up. I will report back when I do.

It is the little things that keep us all excited. After all, the Silverwing is just a vehicle and a back tire is a back tire. No sense getting all emotional about it.

Just don't tell me that I am crazy for putting a car tire on my scooter.

Then don't tell the majority of us about it, I'd say the non-Darksiders don't really want to know and people do get emotional on this subject. You could just as easily PM the other Darksiders and avoid another inevitable argument.

Saw the title of the thread on latest post and thought it was Easter.

Resurrection!!!!!!!

Sorry bad Christmas joke!!!!!

I vote for a darkside section!!!!!

pancho wrote:

I vote for a darkside section!!!!!

+1

Meldrew wrote:
" Then don't tell the majority of us about it, I'd say the non-Darksiders don't really want to know and people do get emotional on this subject. You could just as easily PM the other Darksiders and avoid another inevitable argument."

I am not a Darksider but may wish to become one and I may not. If there was a darkside section I could get some information on darksideing without having to read people getting emotional on this subject. How would people know to PM me, and why should they have to? If I chose to read it I could and those that chose not read it could pass on reading it.

model28a wrote:

I am not a Darksider but may wish to become one and I may not. If there was a darkside section I could get some information on darksideing without having to read people getting emotional on this subject. How would people know to PM me, and why should they have to? If I chose to read it I could and those that chose not read it could pass on reading it.

I can choose to email you by clicking on that little PM icon below your post. What info do you need, if your car needed tyres you'd just go out and have them fitted and wouldn't feel the need to tell everyone that you'd had it done. I'm one of the few on here that's outed himself and fitted a front mud flap, yet I'm not claiming it'll save me from fitting another in a few months, or I'll get anything between 40 and 75000 miles before I'll need another, or smugly claiming I've gone over to somewhere.

When I joined this forum , the Darkside tornado came long before I had joined. It must have been a Doozee to have this topic remove. I for one like to hear all the pros and cons on this subject. Car tires on MC are hear to stay.
A quarter mile dragster use the best of both worlds . I for one ride roads that are not race tracks . It is sad to see that there is no place in this forum
for a Darkside section. It make a very interesting topic to read.
We are very few Silverwing riders in a sea of MC. Lets get along with each
other.

We'll be asking for a section on K&N filters or Hyperpro springs.

Lets keep the forum simple.

Oh if only comprehension were as simple as reading...

If there is no place for the car tire users to go and discuss all of the many wonderful qualities and properties of the car tire on a motorbike... Hey wait there seems to be around 10+ threads about it and amazingly even tinman found this one so it must be possible to find out about them even without a special section.

And as Waspie so accurately points out - then seperate sections for all kinds of other mods too. Let's face it, how will you know about those mods otherwise?

This is where that comprehension thing comes into play.

For all the car tire disciples: I believe the owner of the forum has said no to a special section. Again read, but then comprehend the amazing reality behind his words.

And, since some seem to think we must post about all of the litttle things we do relative to our bikes, thanks for the update Larry, you must tell us what psi you use as well as the brand of tire gague employed to check the pressure. Or were you just hoping to keep this thread alive for some other purpose?

This 'Darkside' business is daft anyway - and I don't refer to fitting car tyres to scooters - because it is a term hijacked to mean anything which is contrary to tradition or the norm; for example, apart from the obvious use, it refers to T&G scooters on geared-scooter forums.
Therefore, to have a section with that title may mean different things to different people.

I've yet to read a post from a Darksider saying they sought advice from their insurance company before fitting a car tyre and then went ahead with their consent. I haven't read anything about the fitting of car tyres to motorcycles being approved by insurance companies either, nor have I seen car tyres suitable for fitting to motorcycles and scooters on display in motorcycle dealerships, or in mail order catalogues where they list suitable replacement tyres for specific motorcycles or scooters.

Why is that?

It seems most posts on using a car tire are about whether or not they are good or bad. There are really few posts that give detailed information on them. I know Bill (Honda-silver) has posted much information as to the type, brand, etc. It really is just a decision to use one or not. It seems the main reason to use one is to get a lot more miles out of a rear tire and it may ride nicer on rougher roads, but I don't know that.

If someone is curious about "Darksiding" then just do it, and if you don't like it change it back to a m/c tire. IMO.

Meldrew wrote:

I've yet to read a post from a Darksider saying they sought advice from their insurance company before fitting a car tyre and then went ahead with their consent. I haven't read anything about the fitting of car tyres to motorcycles being approved by insurance companies either,

https://www.silverwing600.com/t584-insurance-with-darkside-tire#4299

Meldrew wrote:

nor have I seen car tyres suitable for fitting to motorcycles and scooters on display in motorcycle dealerships, or in mail order catalogues where they list suitable replacement tyres for specific motorcycles or scooters.

People can purchase stock (Boss Hoss) and custom motorcycles with darkside tires, when I searched 30 months ago with Darkside tires.

I guess we already have a spot for discussion on car tires and it would be in the Accessories & Modifications forum. As long as "car tire" or " Darkside" is in the header if someone did not care to discuss or read about a "car tire" or " Darkside" they should just not bother to read it. So this hole thing should have started there with the first post. I rarely go to the Rides and Stories part of the forum as they are usually are a long read. But sometimes I do go their when things are slow and I am glad that people take the time to post their adventures. That said I would never go there and put them down and I will never understand why someone has to get involved in a post that doesn't interest them.

Meldrew wrote:

larryinseattle wrote:

I got my tire delivered. Now I need to have it mounted up. I will report back when I do.

It is the little things that keep us all excited. After all, the Silverwing is just a vehicle and a back tire is a back tire. No sense getting all emotional about it.

Just don't tell me that I am crazy for putting a car tire on my scooter.

Then don't tell the majority of us about it, I'd say the non-Darksiders don't really want to know and people do get emotional on this subject. You could just as easily PM the other Darksiders and avoid another inevitable argument.

Why not just post it on the forum that pertains to the subject matter? Why not have conversation about it?

I don't see controversy. I am here to share experiences in regards to motorcycling and maxi scooter riding.

If the thread doesn't interest me, I don't open it.... That is my recommendation to people who don't want to know about darkside tires.

If one doesn't want to pull a trailer, don't open trailer threads.

If one doesn't want a top box.... don't open a top box thread.

If one posts in a thread where there is discussion regarding the subject matter and one is critical about it, then they should expect a response.

We all are here to share information regarding maxi scooters. Some forums have the ability for members to hide other particular members posts. I am not sure if this one has the ability or not, but in the short time I have been here, I have seen unnecessary criticism towards other's post.

It is pretty easy to be critical of others when sitting behind the computer screen.

larryinseattle wrote:

....It is pretty easy to be critical of others when sitting behind the computer screen.

Yes I agree and I'll use your words to get there.

As someone who has to read most of the posts I'll ask that all please heed them.

honda_silver wrote:

... People can purchase stock (Boss Hoss) and custom motorcycles with darkside tires, when I searched 30 months ago with Darkside tires.

Those are specialty built bikes with the car tire as the target from the initial design. I'd contend that Meldrew is correct in his assertion - that the car tire is not a recommended tire from any of the major bike manufaturers.

To model28a I'd say isn't the 'riding season' over for the majority of members on here, so what do you suggest the forum discusses about during the winter months. I first heard about Darksiding on a US Burgman forum and it's a lot like the full face v open face helmet debate, people get heated about it. Since most of our motoring laws and regulations are now dreamed up by faceless bureaucrats in Brussels to bring us in line with the rest of Europe, the legalities of fitting car tyres on motorcycles is of interest to myself and other UK riders. I'd hate to hear about a badly injured rider here in the UK getting his insurance declared void because he had a car tyre fitted.

Meldrew wrote:
"To model28a I'd say isn't the 'riding season' over for the majority of members on here, so what do you suggest the forum discusses about during the winter months."
I live in Florida and the 'riding season' never ends for me. I am not sure I understand why you ask me what to discuss. Why would I need or want to suggest what anyone should discuss?
I do get the impression that you want to tell us what we should or should not discuss.

Meldrew wrote:
"Then don't tell the majority of us about it, I'd say the non-Darksiders don't really want to know and people do get emotional on this subject. You could just as easily PM the other Darksiders and avoid another inevitable argument."

I am not running a car tire so how would anyone know to PM me with info. on car tires?
Hear in the USA it is legal to run with a car tire and as pointed out in the links Bill supplied, evidently at lest some of our insurance co. will still cover your scooter with a car tire.
I have the option to not read anything that i'm not interested in, and if I choose to read something I do not plan on telling the poster not to tell the rest of us about it.

model28a wrote:

I am not running a car tire so how would anyone know to PM me with info. on car tires?
Hear in the USA it is legal to run with a car tire and as pointed out in the links Bill supplied, evidently at lest some of our insurance co. will still cover your scooter with a car tire.
I have the option to not read anything that i'm not interested in, and if I choose to read something I do not plan on telling the poster not to tell the rest of us about it.

I agree on this. Unless a moderator tells me that I am out of line, I am going to discuss the thread subject matter.

jdeereanton wrote:

Those are specialty built bikes with the car tire as the target from the initial design. I'd contend that Meldrew is correct in his assertion - that the car tire is not a recommended tire from any of the major bike manufaturers.

Here is an interesting review with the Darkside tire -
http://www.motorcyclecruiser.com/roadtests/boss_hoss_v8/index.html


With 130/90-16 Continental motorcycle tire on the front wheel and that big, square-profile Firestone P225/70R15 radial car tire on the back, we anticipated all sorts of adventures in corners. We were therefore extremely and pleasantly surprised to discover that the Boss Hoss actually tracked pretty precisely and smoothly around as many corners as we could find in south Florida. It steered with no more force than needed for other "big" bikes. We suspect that the makers of the tires shudder to think of their products being used in that context and combination, but at least on dry pavement, we couldn't find much to quibble about. You could tell that the rear tire's profile wasn't rounded like a motorcycle tire's, but you can confidently lean it over far enough to drag things, which requires more lean angle than many cruisers.

model28a wrote:

I do get the impression that you want to tell us what we should or should not discuss.

Yes I probably do give that impression, that's Meldrew taking over. What do you suggest we should or should not discuss instead ?

I have no dog in this fight, but I've read it for the opinions (and a few facts) it has generated. I followed related links at the bottom of the page and stumbled across a website (www.mcdarksiders.com) dedicted to motorcycle riders who have used car tires on their motorcycles. These seem to be actual people who have actually installed and ridden with the tires. I didn't read all of it and saw nothing to do with scooters, but for those interested it is available. I agree with those who say we don't need a forum section for every part of the Silverwing.

Bill,

Just so you know - quoting me then not directly addressing the main point of what I've written, does not refute my statement. It also does not bolster (strengthen) your point.

For example:

honda_silver wrote:

... You could tell that the rear tire's profile wasn't rounded like a motorcycle tire's, but you can confidently lean it over far enough to drag things, which requires more lean angle than many cruisers.

What an odd statement, I've always read and heard the car tire faithful sing the song that there is no difference in handling. Yet here in your "evidence" for the argument that the major manufacturers should recommend the use of the care tire is a statement that does indeed acknowledge there is a noticeable difference in handling. Yes, it is slight, but it is anectdotal evidence (the only kind there seems to be on this topic) that the car tire on a bike does affect the handling somewhat.

jdeereanton wrote:

Bill,

Just so you know - quoting me then not directly addressing the main point of what I've written, does not refute my statement. It also does not bolster (strengthen) your point.

For example:

honda_silver wrote:

... You could tell that the rear tire's profile wasn't rounded like a motorcycle tire's, but you can confidently lean it over far enough to drag things, which requires more lean angle than many cruisers.

What an odd statement, I've always read and heard the car tire faithful sing the song that there is no difference in handling. Yet here in your "evidence" for the argument that the major manufacturers should recommend the use of the care tire is a statement that does indeed acknowledge there is a noticeable difference in handling. Yes, it is slight, but it is anectdotal evidence (the only kind there seems to be on this topic) that the car tire on a bike does affect the handling somewhat.

Bill,

I would suggest that you just try one on another forum member's bike. If you lived closer, I would offer you to ride mine and see what you think. Goldwing darksiders do this all the time....

It is really no big deal. After a few thousand miles of riding on the darkside, one doesn't even think about it anymore.

What the people who put car tires on bikes and either don't know enough about the dynamics of motorcycle handling or care is-----bike rims and car rims are different---somewhere their is SAE paper on this-----think sudden loss of air at high speed! There are of course other causes of sudden loss of air, but why add another------I have had 2 such deflations at high speed in the past 56 years-----not fun, one put me in the weeds.

Bend swinging is part of the fun of bikes-----doubt if car tires on rear allow same fun as scooter tire.

AND I have noticed one thing reading about mounting car tire on bike rim, very few people do it at home themselves. Getting bead to seat among other things should be an alarm.

larryinseattle wrote:

Bill,

I would suggest that you just try one on another forum member's bike. If you lived closer, I would offer you to ride mine and see what you think. Goldwing darksiders do this all the time....

It is really no big deal. After a few thousand miles of riding on the darkside, one doesn't even think about it anymore.

Larry,

Just to make you aware - Bill probably has more miles riding on a car tire (passenger tire) on a SilverWing than all other car tire users combined. In the past Bill has even admitted to a small adjustment period after initially mounting the car tire on his bike. At this point with probably more than 60,000 miles he is well aware of the ride qualities.

I currently have a little over 24,000 miles darkside on the SWing, and I have in addition, over 41,000 miles riding darkside on my Suzuki 650 Burgman. The handling is not a problem (I preferr a car tire on the unpaved county roads), if we were riding "crotch rockets" it probably would be, but I really can't say that with a certainty.

jdeereanton wrote:

larryinseattle wrote:

Bill,

I would suggest that you just try one on another forum member's bike. If you lived closer, I would offer you to ride mine and see what you think. Goldwing darksiders do this all the time....

It is really no big deal. After a few thousand miles of riding on the darkside, one doesn't even think about it anymore.

Larry,

Just to make you aware - Bill probably has more miles riding on a car tire (passenger tire) on a SilverWing than all other car tire users combined. In the past Bill has even admitted to a small adjustment period after initially mounting the car tire on his bike. At this point with probably more than 60,000 miles he is well aware of the ride qualities.

I understand his amount on darkside tires.... as I have read his posts. I just wanted to be sure that people understand that adding a tire with more weight capability does not give them license to overload the other systems on the bike.

I have a great amount of respect for anyone who rides motorcycles. It is dangerous by itself without adding a variable that could make it more dangerous.

There are a great many darkside riders that feel the passenger tire is safer and out performs a standard motorcycle tire. I don't feel I am risking anymore by doing so.

The danger factor is the number one reason why people retire from riding motorcycles. The fear over rides the fun factor and then something about practicability (from the wife usually) comes into play. I have quit and come back to motorcycling 3 times in my life, all for the same reason.

In the last 15 years, I have kept between 2 and 3 motorcycles in the stable and rotate ownership of different makes and models. This is my second Silverwing. As I age, I think this Silverwing might be the replacement of the Goldwing and it could very well be my last motorcycle. When I am done touring, I will sell the Goldwing. The Silverwing does everything I want an in-town, all around the country type of motorcycle. I love the power, the ease of use and the step through design. Honda did it right on this one...... and only because the Chinese are producing a cheaper scooter; is going to be the eventual demise of this line of bikes.

I wrote Bill, which was wrong, but I meant to say, ANYONE. It is less dramatic than going from Full Milk to 2% Milk.

john grinsel wrote:

What the people who put car tires on bikes and either don't know enough about the dynamics of motorcycle handling or care is-----bike rims and car rims are different---somewhere their is SAE paper on this-----think sudden loss of air at high speed! There are of course other causes of sudden loss of air, but why add another------I have had 2 such deflations at high speed in the past 56 years-----not fun, one put me in the weeds.

Bend swinging is part of the fun of bikes-----doubt if car tires on rear allow same fun as scooter tire.

AND I have noticed one thing reading about mounting car tire on bike rim, very few people do it at home themselves. Getting bead to seat among other things should be an alarm.

I respectfully disagree with your opinion as does a rather large segment of Harley and Goldwing riders do as well.

You are correct in that the seating of the tire is most important and some tires don't seat easy. Not the case with cast wheels such is what is on the Swing and other Japanese motorcycles.

A tubeless tire mounts on a tubeless rim whether or not it is on a motorcycle or a car. The tire does not know the difference. The passenger tire is designed to carry more weight than a motorcycle tire is.

Years ago, before the use of cast wheels on motorcycles, putting a tubeless tire on a spoke motorcycle rim is regarded as unsafe, however, there are plenty of old Harley riders who duck tape up the spokes and do it anyway. The air pressure pushes against the duct tape and does not allow it to come up. That is not for me. I ride motorcycles with cast wheels that are designed for tubeless tires and I put a passenger tire on it and go.

I worry about stuff.... but not the tire. I worry about air pressure.... other drivers on cell phones.... about not being seen. No worry about that passenger tire any more than I worried about a motorcycle tire on the back.