Ignition barrel, may have a problem.

I think Monday the mighty Wing may be visiting the garage to have a starting problem investigated.

The last two days I have found it particularly dificult to start the bike. I place the key in the barrel but am unable to rotate the key prior to pulling in the left brake lever before firing up the engine!

However!!! If I turn the handlebars to the left as if to lock the forks, then 'jiggle' the key to the right the lights and dash illyuminate and I can then start the bike!

Has anyone else had anything similar? Do you think I am justified in returning it to the dealer for investigation? The machine is still under manafacturers warranty si I don't think I have anything to lose by doing so.

I'll keep you informed over the next few days. As it is Sunday the dealer is closed but will contact them first thing Monday.

I had a similar problem with my key/ignition when I first picked up the Silverwing. I spoke to the dealer about it, and his advice was to put the key fully into the ignition barrel, then gently push the top of the key towards the screen, before trying to turn it, as there could be some wear on the tumblers in the ignition barrel. He also put a small drop of oil into the barrel, and all works ok now. With my Swing being a 2004 model, I suppose you could expect some wear on the tumblers in the barrel. I wouldn't think you would have wear in yours yet though. I don't think it will do any harm to ask the dealer, just to put your mind at ease.

Graham

Doug,
Try some WD-40 (silicone spray) to lube and loosen any corrosion that may be in the cylinder, since you don't live in a particularly dry climate.

Good luck!

Wes

OIL?

Thanks so far for the advice guys.

I have always kept the key lubricated with a smear of silicon grease, (advice from a previous thread on here). So I can rule dryness out!

Tried the pushing the key forward and it makes no diference.

A few minutes ago I tried the key and it turned in teh barrel no problem, removed the key - reinserted and same problem, no movement! As long as I can get home tonight we'll be OK>

KurtPerthWA wrote:

OIL?

Being a lifelong non-techy, I use the term oil very loosely!! He's a Honda main dealer, so I make the assumption he knows what he's doing. Probably said he'd lubricated the inside of the barrel?!!

Winger61 wrote:

KurtPerthWA wrote:

OIL?

Being a lifelong non-techy, I use the term oil very loosely!! He's a Honda main dealer, so I make the assumption he knows what he's doing. Probably said he'd lubricated the inside of the barrel?!!

A language glitch. We in the UK tend to use the word 'oil' to imply lubrication, not specifically meaning to oil a component!

For example we occasionally use the term 'oiled' meaning drunk!

What a language eh!!!! Confusing! I should say so!!!

x

[quote="Waspie"]

Winger61 wrote:

KurtPerthWA wrote:

OIL?

For example we occasionally use the term 'oiled' meaning drunk!

Yeah Waspie I know that one, but do you know what type of alcohol and where it originated from?

An old geezer from down the street enlightened me when I was having some problem with the rear brake shoes gripping. Touching the brake meant instant lock up, sorta like a stick in the wheels. He said "back in the "Old Days" we would soak the shoes in S****h and it left a very fine residue of oil when the shoes dried".
I didn't try it tho as this stuff is too valuable to waste on stopping a bike gently, hey!

Dealer is going to pick the Wing up during the week. Their collection vehicle has a broken clutch so I have to wait until that is fixed before they can recover my bike.

After I explained the problem to them, the mechanic thought the barrel may have moved and possibly need relocating in its housing however until he can look at it in the work shop he's just guessing.

They were very good about it they said if I could get it started they would look at it as soon as I could get it to them. However I don't have the confidence that it would restart if I had to stop the engine for any reason. With all the road works at the moment it is way too risky. Rather give them something to do that get worried about what may happen.

Sometime this week my bike will be taken the garage and repaired - that WILL happen, to quote our Australian brethren - "no worries."

I'll just have to go to work tonight in the cold sat in my warm car vlisten to some cool sounds!! (Rather be sat on the Wing)

It's now Friday and the bike finally made it to the dealer for investigation.

I have been less than happy with the dealer I must add, transpired the owners have been away and the staff obviously thought they would have a 'slack' week!!

Owners returned today and appologised for the lack of attention. They called the breakdown team on my behalf and the roadside repair chap finally managed to get the key to turn and bike start up. At that point I took the bike under escort to the dealer. (It transpires that with new Honda's, in the UK we get 2 years free roadside recovery and assistance. Nice to be informed.) I checked all my documentation when I got hope and can find no reference to the effect. Still, now I know.

They started to look at the problem this afternoon. Not before a well intentioned, (but annoying), storeman started telling me that it turned every time for him IF I turned the key this way and applied pressure and then turned that way!! Yes I said - but that's not what it is supposed to do. It is a year old and not functioning as it should. After a few words, (mainly from me), he agreed to shut up and let a mechanic sort it out! I need the 40 minutes on the bus journey home to get the irritating little person out of my system. Why is some people say the wrong things at the wrong time when trying to be helpful?

There track record in the past is a one week wait before returning bikes. Let's hope they improve on that.

[quote="KurtPerthWA"]

Waspie wrote:

Winger61 wrote:

KurtPerthWA wrote:

OIL?

For example we occasionally use the term 'oiled' meaning drunk!

Yeah Waspie I know that one, but do you know what type of alcohol and where it originated from?

An old geezer from down the street enlightened me when I was having some problem with the rear brake shoes gripping. Touching the brake meant instant lock up, sorta like a stick in the wheels. He said "back in the "Old Days" we would soak the shoes in S****h and it left a very fine residue of oil when the shoes dried".
I didn't try it tho as this stuff is too valuable to waste on stopping a bike gently, hey!

So what's with Scotch being starred out? A perfectly good lubricant, in my book. Gads, were it not for good alcoholic beverage I could never have been nearly as good a darts player as I was.

I don't think mother Honda did a good job on the SW's ignition lock. Mine is very critical about how you insert the key. Sometimes it takes three or more tries to get the key inserted into the lock. It's not lack of lubrication it's just some kind of binding in the lock itself. It's never a problem to turn the key once it's finally inserted fully into the lock. There's never a problem inserting the key into the glove box or the seat lock.

First thing the recovery chap looked at was the key and was it lubricated. He even applied duck oil to the lock and 'Nope' that didn't work for him either!!!!!

Getting the key in the lock has never been an issue. (Thanks I must admit to many posts on here about the key/lock issue). My problem was simply turning the key once inserted.

The breakdown mechanic informed me this was only the second Honda, bike and car, he had attended in 23 years in the job. He said he had been so impressed with Honda's that he drives one himself based on his lack of call outs.

So why do I get to own one of the few that does need a call out?

Update. Mon

Honda rang, all the barrels are being replaced under warranty.

They thought they may be able to repair the ignition arrangement but it proves they were wrong. So they have ordered a complete barrel set from Holland and that will be a further three/four days.

On a positive note, the weather is freezing cold at night and that is when I am working and the cars heater IS working!!!!

Good result, Doug!
Pity about the delay but worth the wait.

MikeO wrote:

Good result, Doug!
Pity about the delay but worth the wait.

A result I agree Mike, 'good' - debatable!!

I have vowed to do all but the Honda Service myself as a result of this experience. Five days to collect, two days to diagnose, a further three/four days for delivery of the part. Refitting and then return of bike!!! two to two and a half weeks I estimate. Not good enough in this day and age.

They have offered me a 125 to use but I declined on the grounds of safety. Being used to a larger engined bike I said I would probably kill myself asking the bike to do things it simply wasn't capable of giving.

Oh well, at least I will become more familiar with the car now.

Edited to say, I ordered the Givi airflow screen the other day. No doubt it will now arrive before the Wing is returned.

Mm. I see what you mean.
Still, you have the fun of fitting the screen to look forward to.

Hip - Hip - - Hip - Hip - Hoooray!!

The wing returns. Finally had my Silver Wing returned tonight. Three new barrels and the old ones complete with keys are being despatched back to Honda for investigation!!!!

Once the gales that are sweeping the UK have expired I will start work replacing the stock screen with the Givi AF214. I have fully digested all the info from the thread on here and am mentally prepared for the task.

Good news, Doug!

That's an awful lot of dud barrels.

The screen's a doddle to install.

MikeO wrote:

Good news, Doug!

That's an awful lot of dud barrels.

The screen's a doddle to install.

One duff barrel, (ignition). But under warranty Honda changed, ignition, glove and under seat barrels! Thank you Mr Honda. One key fits all!!!!!!

I now have the old key problem or rather new key problem. Where it is new I have found inserting it into the barrel not difficult just 'fiddly.' As it was when new a year ago.

Looking forward to the screen fitting. Have JeffR's pictorial at hand and the tools lined up. Just need the weather to abate. The winds are too strong to transport from the back garden to the front of the house and the garage entrance so that I can do the work in the dry.

If nothing I am a patient man. (As some of my non friends can testify (I do hold grudges).

Waspie wrote:

Just need the weather to abate. The winds are too strong to transport from the back garden to the front of the house and the garage entrance so that I can do the work in the dry.

How fast are the winds??

Bit from yesterday's Telegraph:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/topics/weather/8128093/Woman-killed-after-being-impaled-by-branch-as-high-winds-lash-Britain.html

Gusts of 100 MPH were reported in Blackpool and on the Penines today.

Violent Storm Force 11 winds in some places round the British Isles.

Here's Waspie's bit:

http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/weather/marine/shipping_forecast.html#All~Portland

Thanks Mike. It is a tad 'blowy' out there.

Poor Wifey hasn't slept much due to the winds. She was nearly bowled over yesterday by the winds when walking the dogs. We have few trees here on Fraggle, (Portland), due to our exposure sitting in the English channel.

Waspie.

Re your mention of the two years roadside breakdown / recovery package.

When I was purchasing my bike the dealer told me it came with the remaining balance of 18 months (Out of 24 months) on both the warranty and roadside breakdown / recovery otherwise I too would not have known.

I week or so later I realised that there was no mention of the breakdown service and or contact phone number in any of the documentation so I went along to dealer to ask for the details but the receptionist could not help although she knew of the 2 year complimentary service.

She went to ask someone else but came back empty handed and then came up with the idea of phoning Honda AUTO roadside breakdown recovery service.

When she got through she was given various pre recorded options including one for motorcycle roadside breakdown / recovery.

She gave me a note of the Auto number which I now keep on the bike and on my phone although I have not tried it myself.

If you would like a note of the number please let me know.

Waspie.

Re the three new keys for ignition / front locker and seat.

I presume you need to keep an old key on your key ring for the fuel cap lock or is that changed / to be changed as well ?

mitch wrote:

Waspie.

Re the three new keys for ignition / front locker and seat.

I presume you need to keep an old key on your key ring for the fuel cap lock or is that changed / to be changed as well ?

Mitch that is a very good point I overlooked!!! I am about to go out for a wind free ride so will check before I start off. Thanks for that.

I don't have a contact number in case of breakdown so if you could PM me the number I would be in your debt. Cheers bud.

Doug... sounds like you are progressing right along. Isn't it amazing that a little thing like a key can make such mess of a great riding machine. I know it will be nice for you to get it finally resolved.

I have had the same problem as exavid. Sometime having little difficult getting ignition key in the switch. Turning not a problem after getting key inserted.

I didn't know that UK had freezing weather. Yall being an island and all. Most islands I have been to have sandy beaches and bikini babes everywhere. Maybe you live on the wrong side of the island.

Mitch, the fuel cap was fine, (phew).

Gary, the key insertion problem can be remedied by a 'smidge', (small amount), of oil, WD40 or other light oil of some sort. As for our weather!!! We can get our share of freezing weather. In fact our weather can be very diverse.

However this time of the year is normally strong winds, wet weather off the Atlantic. We suffer really cold weather when the air comes from Europe, then the temps can plummet to as far as minus 18 to 20 deg. C. Years ago I flew over one of the Scottish sea lochs and it had frozen over. Rare but does happen.

Back on track. Rode the bike for about an hour today and it was flawless. I didn't expect less as it was only the ignition barrel that was defective. But what a pleasure to be back on two wheels again.

Tomorrow, I change the stock screen for a Givi airflow. Followed by a test ride - of course!

Waspie.

Glad to hear about the fuel cap - Do you use old key for fuel lock or does the new key fit as well ?

Have sent you Ph No by PM.

Waspie.

PM I sent you seems to be stuck in my outbox and I cannot see how to ensure it is sent.

Perhaps the system looks after things automatically - So please let me know as and when you receive PM or not as the case may be.

Mitch, message received OK. You will find it has disappeared from your sent box now.

As for the fuel cap, new key works in what looks like a new fuel cap.

The Givi screen was easy to fit, I think I must have read the thread on here so much I found I didn't even have to refer to the print out I made from here.

Haven't had the opportunity to ride with the new screen yet as the weather has made a turn for the worse since putting the bike in the garage to change screens.

Both myself and Mrs Waspie are pleased with the look of the new screen, seems to add more of a frontal presence to the Wing. Not that it needs more of a presence as the Wing is big enough as a stock machine.

Didn't manage to drop anything, the refit went very smooth indeed.

Congrats, Doug!
I'm sure you'll find the screen as good as it looks.
Take care in the weather; we're OK but there's serious flooding a little further inland - one major canal has overflowed its banks, many roads are closed and a couple of villages are under water.
The canal round Bruges is about 2 feet above what it should be.

Just looked at the Gale Warnings; South-Westerly gales coming up the Channel.

MikeO wrote:

Congrats, Doug!
I'm sure you'll find the screen as good as it looks.
Take care in the weather; we're OK but there's serious flooding a little further inland - one major canal has overflowed its banks, many roads are closed and a couple of villages are under water.
The canal round Bruges is about 2 feet above what it should be.

Just looked at the Gale Warnings; South-Westery gales coming up the Channel.

Thanks Mike, weather is just wet, not blowy at the moment. Sounds like you are getting it worse than us right now.

Don't need any more gales! Trouble is it's that time of the year!!!

Just checked the Met Office site and there are no warnings for Portland and the max wing strength is 16 knots. Not too bad.

Yes, lots of rain here although it's not doing it at the moment.
I have a rain-gauge in the garden which I check at 12.00.hrs every day.
I looked at around 1.00 this morning and we'd had 18mm. Only another 2mm followed.
Ed told me the mm/square mtr announced on the radio this morning. I'll ask him again later - it was lots!

49 litres per square metre - sounds rather a lot!

MikeO wrote:

49 litres per square metre - sounds rather a lot!

Sounds like a deluge!!!!!!!

I have almost 30,000 on my 2005 Silverwing and for the first time had an ignition switch problem. It took me all of 10 minutes to finally get it turned on. I used a little WD 40 on the key. I do not know if that is what done it or not. It has at times been a little difficult but, the other day, it just would not turn! I thought, wow! this would be the Pitts if I was on some long trip out through the middle of no where and this happened. Makes a person a little paranoid. . . Seem to be alright now but then who knows. . . I see by the Forum I'm not the only one that has had this happen. Anyway guess different folks have tried different things.
Old Dave in Western Nebraska

Hey Guys,

Send some of that cool rain our way!!! Very dry and hot here.

Upon urging (most intensive) from the wife, I decided to sell the Swing. Being diabetic and taking meds that affect my balance, it was time. Garage floor was dusty and my feet slid out from under me as I took it off the center stand. Bike went down one way, I went down another! Finally got i up only to discover that there key won't turn past the "ON" position. Tried graphite, no joy, tried silicone, still no joy, tried turning bars, wiggling key, cursing in American English, French, Russian and Arabic. I don't know how to curse in Japanese, but as the other languages had no effect, I doubt Japanese will have no effect!

Does anyone have any ideas why dropping a Swing should affect the ignition as I didn't jam the steering. Anyone have any ideas? I have potential buyers messaging me every day, so fresh ideas would be most appreciated.


Rick

There's a Bank Angle Sensor that cuts off fuel if the Silver Wing gets dropped on it's side.

Thanks for the reply! I may be wrong, but I don’t know how that sensor would prevent the key turning to “ignition”. I was able to get the key turn to the farthest left position, the “fork lock”. Nothing I do gets the key beyond the “on” position.
Rick